And this is legal under islamic law.

[no guns here]

I think that my grandkids will live to see the point where you will have to convert to islam or die.  With the inroads being made into western society by the islamists and the unwillingness for western society and government to confront them, it will soon be too late to stop them.  I predict that withing twenty years, Sharia law will become the defacto behind the scenes law in parts of major cities in the US.  Ohh... the gov will wail and gnash their teeth about it just like with illegal immigrants but NOTHING substantive will be done to stop it.  Women will be raped and abused.  Men will be above the law.  They will find people with lash marks on their back, hand cut off, heads cut off, women who have been raped and stoned, women subjected to honor killings and more.  Once it is in place... then it will expand and then anyone "inside" their communities even Christians, Jews, atheists, etc will be subject too their "laws".  And the government will stand by and watch and bow and scrape to appease the islamists.


I say that they should be driven from our land now.  Give them the ultimatum... renounce islam and it's evilness or leave our country or fight to the death.

NGH

[billy_56081]

NGH I have a feeling you have had experience living in country with the islamofacists. It seems like people that have lived amongst that cult see it for the evil it is. A lot of the ignorant and naïve have only been "told" about islam and it being a peaceful "religion" those of us who have seen it first hand know how evil it is.

[rio grande]

[
That is genocide.  Think what you are saying.  Women, children, innocent people.
No Sir, I would not be a party to that.

You sound as though you think of muslims  as humans!!

Would you ask the age, or sex, of a poisonous snake before you killed it?

Yes, I do think Muslims are humans.  If you think all Muslims are slimy cut-throats you are mistaken.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", now lets see, who said that?
You who call for indiscriminate murder of innocent women and children should be ashamed of yourselves.  What makes you better than torturers and rapists?
If you want to fight, fight 'em man to man.  If you have the .... courage! 

Rio G - Some 65 years ago the United States and the rest of the world were engaged in a bloody and costly war against the Nazis and Empire of Japan.   Those courageous young men were part of what has been called "The Greatest Generation".    In August of 1945 the decision was made by the President of the United States and carried out by the crew of the Enola Gay to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima.   He made this difficult decision because he knew our country was facing an enemy that would rather die for their Emporer than surrender (just as the Islamic fanatics wish to die for Allah and take out as many of us as possible).   President Truman did not wish to sacrifice any more of the Greatest Generation fighting "man to man" with fanatics that would die before surrender no matter the cost.   

So - in your view of the world is President Truman and the crew of the Enola Gay and every other support serviceman on the same level as "torturers and rapists"?
Was President Truman lacking in "courage" because he did not want our Soldiers and Marines to have to fight on the Japanese mainland "man to man"?

Throughout history it has been proven that extreme enemies require extreme measures.    Today is just as extreme as 1945.

The nuclear bombing of Japan was a war crime.  http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/kohls1.html
The firebombing of Dresden was too, totally unnecessary. 
Sorry my friends, the killing of innocent women and children, any innocent non-combatants, can never be justified by any standard of morality.
This is not the Religion forum, but I remind you that Jesus said, "Blessed are the peacemakers".
And you do not have to be Christian to know how you would feel if your children were incinerated by firebombs or nuclear blasts simply for being in the 'wrong' country.
Sorry, that's the way it is, you know I'm right, get over it.

[billy_56081]

Its a good thing that most folks grow up and learn that there is evil in the world. Gladly most like Rio here learn that when they get out and experiance the real world.

[gypsyman]

Funny I didn't see anything in that article about what the Japanese were doing to all the women they had captured and made sex slaves out of them.Is that not a war crime? And as far as the talks with Japan about when they might surrender, woulda,coulda, shoulda. None of us were there. Monday morning quarterbacks are a dime a dozen. Take that article and wipe your a** with it, as that's all it's good for. And if you think that the Muslim religion is a peaceful one, maybe Monica has a slightly used par of knee pads she'll sell you! gypsyman

[Hooker]

Rio G I believe you just called my father and lot of other good men a war criminals or at least an accessories to the crime.

Then you quote scripture "blessed are the peacemakers"

God does not make peace with evil and neither do Godly men.

You ungrateful troll.

Pat

[DalesCarpentry]

[
That is genocide.  Think what you are saying.  Women, children, innocent people.
No Sir, I would not be a party to that.

You sound as though you think of muslims  as humans!!

Would you ask the age, or sex, of a poisonous snake before you killed it?

Yes, I do think Muslims are humans.  If you think all Muslims are slimy cut-throats you are mistaken.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", now lets see, who said that?
You who call for indiscriminate murder of innocent women and children should be ashamed of yourselves.  What makes you better than torturers and rapists?
If you want to fight, fight 'em man to man.  If you have the .... courage! 

Rio G - Some 65 years ago the United States and the rest of the world were engaged in a bloody and costly war against the Nazis and Empire of Japan.   Those courageous young men were part of what has been called "The Greatest Generation".    In August of 1945 the decision was made by the President of the United States and carried out by the crew of the Enola Gay to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima.   He made this difficult decision because he knew our country was facing an enemy that would rather die for their Emporer than surrender (just as the Islamic fanatics wish to die for Allah and take out as many of us as possible).   President Truman did not wish to sacrifice any more of the Greatest Generation fighting "man to man" with fanatics that would die before surrender no matter the cost.   

So - in your view of the world is President Truman and the crew of the Enola Gay and every other support serviceman on the same level as "torturers and rapists"?
Was President Truman lacking in "courage" because he did not want our Soldiers and Marines to have to fight on the Japanese mainland "man to man"?

Throughout history it has been proven that extreme enemies require extreme measures.    Today is just as extreme as 1945.

The nuclear bombing of Japan was a war crime.  http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/kohls1.html
The firebombing of Dresden was too, totally unnecessary. 
Sorry my friends, the killing of innocent women and children, any innocent non-combatants, can never be justified by any standard of morality.
This is not the Religion forum, but I remind you that Jesus said, "Blessed are the peacemakers".
And you do not have to be Christian to know how you would feel if your children were incinerated by firebombs or nuclear blasts simply for being in the 'wrong' country.
Sorry, that's the way it is, you know I'm right, get over it.

You say quote. "Blessed are the peacemakers".
Yes the US was blessed because by dropping those bombs we saved lives and brought the end to the war. My father went through Hiroshima after the bomb there was dropped. His job was to throw bodies in the back of trucks and dispose of them. He never talked to me about it but my mother told me about after he died. Dale

[rio grande]

Rio G I believe you just called my father and lot of other good men a war criminals or at least an accessories to the crime.

Then you quote scripture "blessed are the peacemakers"

God does not make peace with evil and neither do Godly men.

You ungrateful troll.

Pat

Pat,
If you are looking for trolls, please turn your eyes toward the original poster of the unsubstantiated Jerusalem Post article which contains these sentences "The interview took place by telephone, and on condition of anonymity. It was arranged by a reliable source whose identity can also not be revealed".
But it is good to discuss these things, let the truth be told.
"Godly men" do not advocate the killing of innocents, women and children. 
I would think those who ordered the unnecessary killings of civilians, women and children, and those who directly carried out the bombings, would be war criminals, yes.
Ordinary GI's had nothing to do with it, and no knowledge of it.

[powderman]

Rio G I believe you just called my father and lot of other good men a war criminals or at least an accessories to the crime.

Then you quote scripture "blessed are the peacemakers"

God does not make peace with evil and neither do Godly men.

You ungrateful troll.

Pat

YEP. Agreed. Estimates of at LEAST a MILLION casualities to invade japan with a ground force of allied troops was expected. Darn right the bombing was justified. POWDERMAN. 

[BBF]

Nope, it appears it is easier or more desireable to nuke them then to limit immigration and have oversight of activities that is detrimental to national security.

[wganz]

It happens in their country to their people by their people, butt out !!

The beginning of wisdom is a definition of terms.

Unfortunately with Islam we don't have that luxury. Westerners(and particularly the liberal elite) like to say that Islam is a "Religion of Peace". Now, when Westerners see 'Peace' they get visions of glowing utopias with flying unicorns that have rainbow skittles streaming behind to shower down on happy little faces of all the chilluns of the world that all have above average IQ's and no booboo's on their knees. The actual definition of the term "Peace" in Islam is the absence of any other religion. To paraphrase the Quran, "The existence of any other religion is regarded as an attack on Islam."

So, they are compelled to carry jihad to the rest of the world and even unto the distant corners where some Inuit tribe in northern Siberia is practicing their ancestor worship to subjugate them. Their 'Peace' is not our 'Peace'; but a declaration of jihad upon us infidels. And there is even a faction that wants to roll back all technological advances until the 800 AD level so that the world will be as it was when Mohammed lived.

The Western World is intoxicated with PC liberalism that thinks that it can live with Islam when the reality is that Islam is a religious cancer that needs to be removed.

[SHOOTALL]

Rio grande , What most seem to forget that for all the combatants on the line there are many behind them . Some are ready to fill their spot if they fall others to add strength . Then there is the industry of war , those who provide the tools . Then the ones who provide the food . The ones who provide everything else .
Even the children are in the pipe line to fill in as they mature .
In reality there are very very few who have no connection the the war. Innocent victoms ? not hardly .
This war is not new it has gone one for centuries and will until one side completle destories the other . They have a grip on this , we better get a grip or we will be in for a huge life change .

[Oldshooter]

Nope, it appears it is easier or more desireable to nuke them then to limit immigration and have oversight of activities that is detrimental to national security.

Whos national security, Canadian

[DalesCarpentry]

I dispise the Muslim religion. I hate the terrorist who brought us 911 but as much as I hate them I think it is wrong to nuke a country and kill woman and children. Besides if we were to do that the whole world would come down on us like a ton of bricks. Dale

[billy_56081]

Dang TM I see once again you arresiding with the Nazi's and muzzys. What a surprise. You are going to be a huge hit at the BBQ.

[wganz]

It happens in their country to their people by their people, butt out !!

The beginning of wisdom is a definition of terms.

Unfortunately with Islam we don't have that luxury. Westerners(and particularly the liberal elite) like to say that Islam is a "Religion of Peace". Now, when Westerners see 'Peace' they get visions of glowing utopias with flying unicorns that have rainbow skittles streaming behind to shower down on happy little faces of all the chilluns of the world that all have above average IQ's and no booboo's on their knees. The actual definition of the term "Peace" in Islam is the absence of any other religion. To paraphrase the Quran, "The existence of any other religion is regarded as an attack on Islam."

So, they are compelled to carry jihad to the rest of the world and even unto the distant corners where some Inuit tribe in northern Siberia is practicing their ancestor worship to subjugate them. Their 'Peace' is not our 'Peace'; but a declaration of jihad upon us infidels. And there is even a faction that wants to roll back all technological advances until the 800 AD level so that the world will be as it was when Mohammed lived.

The Western World is intoxicated with PC liberalism that thinks that it can live with Islam when the reality is that Islam is a religious cancer that needs to be removed.

.
I don't know wganz;;;I don't think anybody here is too much an expert on Islam. Looks like history shows most of the killing being done in the world has been by Judaeo-Christian countries.

Besides you can tell the civilized countries...they're the ones with all the high tech sophisticated mass weapons..!

What goes on in Iran is their business in spite of cloak and dagger Foxnewsesque reports. Uncle Sam being purveyor of some elite group's desire for NWO is not my idea of what we should be doing.

..TM7

OK, I know better than to feed the trolls so this is more for the benefit of others here than to try to debate someone whose mind is already made up. The 'most of the killing in the world has been by Judaeo-Christian countries' is a standard line of the liberal elite to smear Christianity. And you qualify your statement with "Looks like history shows"; well, it doesn't show that. And I can tell you're rushing to comment about the Crusades. The Crusades were a belated response to the Moslem conquest of the Christian areas that we now know as Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine.

And this exclamation of "with all the high tech sophisticated mass weapons..!" This is the same argument that the hoplophobes use about Americans having "all those evil black rifles".  If the Christian Western World was all that blood thirsty with all those 'high tech weapons', then they're slacking that Tehran, Baghdad, and Kabul didn't have that perma electric blue aura for the next millennium on Sept 12th.

The president of Iran got his street creed by coming up with the idea of having his teenage 'volunteer' mine sweepers to wrap themselves in their prayer rolls so that when they hit a mine in front of a tank that their body would hold together enough that it could possibly detonate another mine further out. This man has denied that the Holocaust occurred(and I've got several eyewitness relatives who BTDT in WWII that can testify to the horrors of Dachau). He has said he was going to develop nuclear weapons, wipe Israel off the map, and develop missiles of delivering such weapons to Europe. Leaving this man to do those things is like Chamberlain to wave his piece of paper and proclaiming that they would have peace in their time.

Again. Their 'Peace' isn't our 'Peace'. Nothing hard to figure out since you can get a Quran for $4.95 like I did so that you have some lunch time reading. A cheaper alternative is to get the religion section out of your Sunday newspaper of any major city and you'll find an advertisement on where to email to get your free copy of the Quran. Read it from back to front(when you get it, you'll see what I mean) and you'll see their commandments on how to deal with us infidels.

[powderman]

There will never be peace in the world as long as islam is allowed to spread it's filth, hatred, and death. We aren't dealing with rational human beings here, we are dealing with a cult of hatred and death. They teach their children to hate all non muslims practicaly from birth. What kind of a man would strap explosives on his child and tell them to blow up a bus load of Jewish school kids??? A muslim. What kind of a man would send his child to hell like that??? A muslim. What kind of a man would celebrate the deaths of thousands of innocents on 9-11-01??? Right again, a muslim. What kind of a man would murder his own daughter because she was brutally beaten and raped???  YEP, a muslim. Real peaceful, aren't they??? POWDERMAN. 

[powderman]

At least one or 2 korans should be part of everybodys bugout or survival kit, even around the house for disasters and outages. Never can tell when you'll run out of toilet paper. Yep, every house in America needs at least one. Great for starting fires at BBQS too, maybe tm will give one to Billy to get his  fire started, I'm sure he has plenty of them. POWDERMAN. 

[petemi]

You guys need to learn to differentiate between Muslims and Radical Muslims.  I worked, for three years, with a Muslim Turkish Naval Captain (and there aren't many).  He graduated first in his class from Annapolis and again from the U.S. Naval War College.  He was first and foremost a family man.  He was honest and just in his dealings with others, subordinate or superior.  He was always first to step out and offer help to anyone in need, regardless of race, religion or nationality.  He was the most "christian of christian men".  At age 24, I adoped him as a role model, and am still striving today to fill his shoes, and that was more than forty years ago.  Don't be "Junior Hitlers" and condemn a third of the world for their religious beliefs.

He was the finest person I ever had the opportunity to work with daily, and he became a close friend.

Pete 

[ironglow]

You guys need to learn to differentiate between Muslims and Radical Muslims.  I worked, for three years, with a Muslim Turkish Naval Captain (and there aren't many).  He graduated first in his class from Annapolis and again from the U.S. Naval War College.  He was first and foremost a family man.  He was honest and just in his dealings with others, subordinate or superior.  He was always first to step out and offer help to anyone in need, regardless of race, religion or nationality.  He was the most "christian of christian men".  At age 24, I adoped him as a role model, and am still striving today to fill his shoes, and that was more than forty years ago.  Don't be "Junior Hitlers" and condemn a third of the world for their religious beliefs.

He was the finest person I ever had the opportunity to work with daily, and he became a close friend.

Pete 

  Pete;
  It would help their cause greatly if Muslims....would aid in differentiating between Muslims and radical Muslims. How often do we hear the non-rads speaking out about wishing the US forces success in capturing/killing the radicals who are killing so many innocents. Why is there not a great outpouring of disgust from the non-rads, each time some innocent is beheaded or burned and hung from a bridge ? The "junior Hitlers" (IMO) are those who do not speak loudly enough in condemning those who smear their "faith" with diving loaded planes into buildings, rape of  innocent women, cut off tongues & genitals. blow up day care centers and etc...more than 12,000 incidents since 9/11/01.
   Your Turkish naval captain may have been a decent guy, but don't try to refer to him as a most "christian of christian men"..that is just plain misleading.
  In the first case Christian is capitalized (from a proper name you know) and in the second case no Muslim can be a Christian unless he/she converts. That statement is as incongruous as calling Billy Graham a "Muslim of Muslims"..just doesn't make sense... and I doubt either one would appreciate it..

[rio grande]

I've had some time to think things over.  I'll say this and I'll leave it alone.
If I offended anyone - that was not my intention.
My thoughts on this subject are simply that - my thoughts, and my opinions,
I'm not in a position to judge others, each must examine their own conscience as to what is right and wrong.
Be aware though - there IS a right and wrong, and a higher Judge.
I joined this thread because I was shocked and saddened that anyone would advocate mass murder of innocents. 
I am still amazed and saddened at it.
God help us all.

[wganz]

At least one or 2 korans should be part of everybodys bugout or survival kit, even around the house for disasters and outages. Never can tell when you'll run out of toilet paper. Yep, every house in America needs at least one. Great for starting fires at BBQS too, maybe tm will give one to Billy to get his  fire started, I'm sure he has plenty of them. POWDERMAN. 

I advocate that every thinking patriot get a copy and study it. The sage General Sun Tzu said "18. Hence the saying: If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle." Study it and not skim for 'impressions'.

[SHOOTALL]

Thomas Jefferson did just that before sending The Marines to destory their pirates when he was pres. Good idea !

[BBF]

Good read Pete. I had similar expierence with an individual from the Khyber Pass area
I have been critical of the Zionist movment. They are nobodies friend and only have Alligance but their own.  Don't presume that I dislike Jews. That is an individual matter to me. In my past working life I had two Jews in different times as my boss and I have nothing but respect and praise for them.  Fair  as men as can be, and ethical in their dealings with me and those around me. Nothing wrong with some of their ethnic food either.

[SHOOTALL]

We  keep bring up the everyday Muslim and how they don't wish us harm . Are those the ones that stand by and watch the Radical Muslims commit all sorts of crimes aginst their own and others ? you know the ones that behead women who were raped , cut up soccer players when they loose etc.
I don't really have a concern with the nice ones ITS THOSE RADICAL ONES THAT SCARE THE HELL OUT OF ME cause the nice ones let them run things or have you not noticed . I have worked for Jews twice also and one was good and one was not seems that's the case with most religions . Some follow and are good others not so .

[powderman]

SHOOTALL. The so called GOOD muslims were dancing in the street after 9-11-01 by the thousands all over the world, including right here in America. Wouldn't surprise me if at least one poster here was leading the cheers. POWDERMAN. 

[SHOOTALL]

Good point .
Seems some here are well starting to act FRENCH

[billy_56081]

This is just SOP for the cult of mohammed. The funny part is we get the same antisemites here apologising for their actions over and over.




I love this last explaination by one of our resident antisemites. Kinda like the KKK guys saying, "hey I have some black friends".

[ironglow]

Shootall;
  It even appears that some are bypassing the French...and going directly to Muslim...

      After all, our new C in C is BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA..

[no guns here]

Well, there may well be radical islamists as well as "muslims", however, in the end they will ALL choose ISLAM over country when it comes time to fight.  I prefer that we fight over there than in the US.  We don't have enough iron to put a warhead on every forehead so in order to destroy those who are our sworn enemies, we must resort to more redical methods.  Sorry but comparing this to Hitler or the attempted annihilation of the Jews doesn't work.  The Jews were not the "enemy" of Germany or any other nation.  They were a disjointed ethnic group without out a homeland.  Now, I'm not saying that every ethnic group should have their own homeland, I'm just saying that they didn't have an army, navy, air force, industrial capability or anything like that.  The Islamist's have all of that AND have declared war on Israel, the US and intimated that Europe is a target too.  Declaring and waging unlimited warfare on an enemy that has loudly proclaimed your destruction as it's goal is the right way to handle things.  Unless you wish to live under the Koran, you should recognize that we are in a fight for the very existence of the western world.  I don't CARE who is responsible for most of the killing in history.  I don't care about slavery in the US either.  The current makers of history are the only ones we have any control over.  We can't do a damn thing about the Crusades, WWI, WWII, slavery, the Civil War, the bombing of Dresden (though the firebombing of Tokyo was worse), Hiroshima or Nagasaki.  That is all in the past and shouldn't be used as an excuse either for or against a course of action in the present day.  Now in this PRESENT DAY, we have a fight for survival on our hands.  Our sworn enemies have a long term plan of immigration and making small inroads into communities.  As their strength in a community grows, they implement their wishes, laws and customs.  They are keeping us busy fighting an ephemeral enemy in their homeland while we lose the WAR at home.  I say that we eliminate the enemy in their lands quickly and then concentrate on the ones in our land.  I have this feeling that every year they are laughing more and more behind our backs as we try to help them and as we finance their building.  They send more and more of their people to our land.   Those people stay in their communities, they build their own schools and universities, they spread their religion in our land.  They raise a ruckus if anyone even attempts to do the same things in the name of Christianity and our "leaders" all kow-tow and knuckle under and give the islamists what they want.  I'm just so sick and tired of it all.  We need to shift the balance of power in the US and the western world back to the way it is supposed to be.  We need to make them crawl back into their caves and eliminate their political, religious and economic power.  It won't happen because nobody wants to make them "mad".  Well if there weren't so many of them, we wouldn't worry about making them "mad" would we?


NGH