Author Topic: 338 Federal should be about dead by now (Read 19961 times)

john keyes · « **on:** July 15, 2009, 08:07:19 AM »

its a shame they didn't make more rifles for it.
Would love to have a savage 99 in one.
Looks like there are some good deals on some SAkos and stuff since some of the dealers think that once the factory ammo is
gone there won't be anymore.

I just can't really warm up to a bolt gun in that round.

there was a 327 handgun round, I think it was Federal too. Seemed like a cool cartridge. I better hurry up and track down
an SP101....nah, nevermind, won't be able to find brass and bullets like I could the 338 (ie 338-08)Federal.

poncaguy · « **Reply #1 on:** July 15, 2009, 02:49:09 PM »

I've warmed up to my Ruger Hawkeye 338 Federal and my TC Encore 338, nice accurate round, mild recoil. No trouble finding ammo..................

SDS-GEN · « **Reply #2 on:** July 16, 2009, 05:45:32 AM »

Mine is still alive and shooting.

Happy · « **Reply #3 on:** July 16, 2009, 06:52:40 AM »

Quote from: poncaguy on July 15, 2009, 02:49:09 PM

I've warmed up to my Ruger Hawkeye 338 Federal and my TC Encore 338, nice accurate round, mild recoil. No trouble finding ammo..................

The mild recoil could be because of the rifle weight . My tikka straight out of the box was another thing .I do not think the savage 99 is up to the pressures that the 338 F generate .
The 338 Federal brass comes only through federals Ammo , and I am sure that it is not sold as a componet , so you will buy Federals own ammo .How ever 308 once fired brass is still cheap and resizing it up to 338 is a breeze.
If the ammo was sold in the price range as the regular brand in 3006 and 308 class of cartridge I am sure the chambering would be more popular.
I doubt if the round is going to die . It just may become a reloader round just as the 358 W.
For a mid range cartridge it does a good job.
Happy

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** July 16, 2009, 07:26:52 AM »

338 Federal dies are available, brass can be made from 308 or 358, the 99 was available in 308 Win which has the same SAAMI MAP of 62kpsi.

Tim

http://www.gunwalker.com/338federal/brass.html

http://www.gunwalker.com/338federal/brass.html

http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscellk.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/savage_99.htm

yooper77 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 16, 2009, 06:34:28 PM »

The 327 Federal Magnum would not be my first choice, but the ammo, brass and bullets are out there. You can shoot the 32 H&R Magnum & 32 S&W Long cartridges, plus all can be reloaded with the same dies.

The 338 Federal is an awesome cartridge and will live along time, since it is made from the 308 Winchester parent case.

I also like the 338-06 A-Square, but there needs to be more rifles built for it, also will live on since its based on the 30-06 Springfield parent case.

The cartridges I don’t believe will live long are as follows:

The (WSM) Winchester Short Magnum are probably going to keep the best running rate, but the (WSSM) Winchester Super Short Magnums will die off.

375 Ruger, will never replace the 375 H&H Magnum.

300 and 338 Ruger Compact Magnums (RCM) These are crazy.

(RUMS) Remington Ultra Magnum, to include the (SAUM) Remington Short Ultra Magnum. I feel these are either too large or too small.

I am sure I am missing some, but so feel free to add to the list.

I am so glad all my rifle cartridges are based off the 308 Winchester or 30-06 Springfield parent cases, I don’t have the worry on finding brass.

Oh I do have a 223 Remington and 30-30 Winchester, but that brass is easy to find as well.

poncaguy · « **Reply #6 on:** July 17, 2009, 08:49:17 AM »

I have all the 308 based rounds, love them all....................

jro45 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2009, 04:04:41 AM »

I own and shoot the 338 RUM Have no use for the 338 Federal.

poncaguy · « **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2009, 02:47:55 PM »

and I have no need for the recoil of that 338 RAUM............

poncaguy · « **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2009, 02:50:35 PM »

Meant 338 RUM......... $:-\$

jasonprox700 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2009, 03:21:41 PM »

Quote from: yooper77 on July 16, 2009, 06:34:28 PM

The cartridges I don’t believe will live long are as follows:

The (WSM) Winchester Short Magnum are probably going to keep the best running rate, but the (WSSM) Winchester Super Short Magnums will die off.

300 and 338 Ruger Compact Magnums (RCM) These are crazy.

(RUMS) Remington Ultra Magnum, to include the (SAUM) Remington Short Ultra Magnum. I feel these are either too large or too small.

I kind of agree with you on the WSSM. They are hit and miss. One thing they have going for them is the ability to be chambered in AR-15's. With the popularity of AR these days, this will probably keep them alive. I myself want to get a .243 WSSM in an AR. I reload, so factory ammo is not a concern.

The RCM's will have a tuff go...

As for the RUM, these are here to stay. They are very popular with the long range croud. The Weatherby's and Lapua are very popular too, but the RUM is a lot cheaper with similiar ballistics.

The RSUAM will die and is dieing.

Just my 2 cents...

Sourdough · « **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2009, 08:04:41 PM »

The .308 is considered too light for Alaska, therefore all the .308 based cartridges would be also. If I can't use it here at home I am not interested in it.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #12 on:** July 19, 2009, 08:53:30 PM »

Quote from: jasonprox700 on July 19, 2009, 03:21:41 PM

Quote from: yooper77 on July 16, 2009, 06:34:28 PM
The cartridges I don’t believe will live long are as follows:

The (WSM) Winchester Short Magnum are probably going to keep the best running rate, but the (WSSM) Winchester Super Short Magnums will die off.

300 and 338 Ruger Compact Magnums (RCM) These are crazy.

(RUMS) Remington Ultra Magnum, to include the (SAUM) Remington Short Ultra Magnum. I feel these are either too large or too small.

I kind of agree with you on the WSSM. They are hit and miss. One thing they have going for them is the ability to be chambered in AR-15's. With the popularity of AR these days, this will probably keep them alive. I myself want to get a .243 WSSM in an AR. I reload, so factory ammo is not a concern.

Just my 2 cents...

I agree and find it kinda ironic that Winchester totally missed the only reason for their own cartridge to exist at all

A bolt gun with a 1/4" shorter bolt throw........WHO CARES!

25-06 performance from an AR15.......R.O.C.K...O.U.T.

I would like to buy a wssm upper myself but the current nutiness kinda precludes this

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #13 on:** July 20, 2009, 02:54:37 AM »

Quote from: yooper77 on July 16, 2009, 06:34:28 PM

The 327 Federal Magnum would not be my first choice, but the ammo, brass and bullets are out there. You can shoot the 32 H&R Magnum & 32 S&W Long cartridges, plus all can be reloaded with the same dies.

The 338 Federal is an awesome cartridge and will live along time, since it is made from the 308 Winchester parent case.

I also like the 338-06 A-Square, but there needs to be more rifles built for it, also will live on since its based on the 30-06 Springfield parent case.
The cartridges I don’t believe will live long are as follows:

The (WSM) Winchester Short Magnum are probably going to keep the best running rate, but the (WSSM) Winchester Super Short Magnums will die off.

So far we are pretty much in agreement.

The .325 Federal is a good cartridge and may hang on but I don’t think it will ever be a spectacular success. The .338 Federal is a great little cartridge that deserves to survive. Lots of the “right stuff without a lot of recoil. Ditto the .338-06 A-Square.

The .300 WSM looks like a survivor but I doubt the other WSMs or RSAUMs are long for this world. That applies double to the WSSMs.

Quote

375 Ruger, will never replace the 375 H&H Magnum.

300 and 338 Ruger Compact Magnums (RCM) These are crazy.

Have to disagree here. The .375 Ruger offers .375 H&H performance in a standard .30-06 length action. Higher volumes on the actions mean lower manufacturing costs which should translate to lower costs to the consumer. The .375 Ruger case is also a great case for developing additional magnum-performance cartridges sans the “magnum” belt. It maximizes case capacity for a lot of rifles without sacrificing magazine capacity.

The .300 and .338 RCMs are fine short action cartridges, without the stigma of or complications arising from the of the Rick Jamison WSM lawsuit. That said, I would have preferred to see the .338 on a full length .375 Ruger case.

Quote

(RUMS) Remington Ultra Magnum, to include the (SAUM) Remington Short Ultra Magnum. I feel these are either too large or too small.

The .338 RUM is here to stay, but it is too long for many .30-06 length actions (and intentionally so, I believe, which is one reason I favor the .375 Ruger case).

Quote

I am sure I am missing some, but so feel free to add to the list.

I am so glad all my rifle cartridges are based off the 308 Winchester or 30-06 Springfield parent cases, I don’t have the worry on finding brass.

Oh I do have a 223 Remington and 30-30 Winchester, but that brass is easy to find as well.

Two more that I think deserve to survive include the .308 Marlin Express and the .338 Marlin. For levergun lovers (like myself) these are wonderful cartridges. I think the .338 has a better chance but suspect neither will ever gain a large following.

Brass is never really an issue with me. Once I buy a rifle a lifetime supply of brass, generally 5000 cases, generally follows shortly thereafter – even with my .30-06s and .308 Win.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2009, 04:20:12 AM »

Quote from: Sourdough on July 19, 2009, 08:04:41 PM

The .308 is considered too light for Alaska, therefore all the .308 based cartridges would be also. If I can't use it here at home I am not interested in it.

Sooo, you speak for all of Alaska??? Maybe you need to be the one to replace Palen? lol

The 30-06 was/is used for a huge amount of hunting in Alaska. I used it, many of my friends used them, and all of us had good success with them on everything we hunted. A properly loaded 30-06 will flatten everything, from big bears on down!

I have to agree with the Alaskan brown bear guide, Phil Shoemaker. Here's what "he" had to say, just as he wrote it, and i quote. "ANYONE WHO CLAIMS THE 30-06 IS NOT EFFECTIVE ON BIG BEARS HAS EITHER NOT USED ONE - OR IS UNWITTINGLY COMMENTING ON THEIR MARKSMANSHIP"

BUT, i'd rather have a properly loaded 30-06 than a .338 Federal for brown bear too...

DM

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #15 on:** July 20, 2009, 06:25:45 AM »

Quote from: Drilling Man on July 20, 2009, 04:20:12 AM

Quote from: Sourdough on July 19, 2009, 08:04:41 PM
The .308 is considered too light for Alaska, therefore all the .308 based cartridges would be also. If I can't use it here at home I am not interested in it.

Sooo, you speak for all of Alaska??? Maybe you need to be the one to replace Palen? lol

The 30-06 was/is used for a huge amount of hunting in Alaska. I used it, many of my friends used them, and all of us had good success with them on everything we hunted. A properly loaded 30-06 will flatten everything, from big bears on down!

I have to agree with the Alaskan brown bear guide, Phil Shoemaker. Here's what "he" had to say, just as he wrote it, and i quote. "ANYONE WHO CLAIMS THE 30-06 IS NOT EFFECTIVE ON BIG BEARS HAS EITHER NOT USED ONE - OR IS UNWITTINGLY COMMENTING ON THEIR MARKSMANSHIP"

BUT, i'd rather have a properly loaded 30-06 than a .338 Federal for brown bear too...

DM

The .30-06 is by no means based on the .308. Just the oppisite. The .308 is a fine round but hasn't a chance against its big brother.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #16 on:** July 20, 2009, 06:38:29 AM »

True enough, but there's are lot's of hunters that will argue that anything a 30-06 can do with 180's, the 308 can also do with 180's...

Origionally, i read his post to include all cases on the 308 head size, i should have understood the "308 based" better... After rereading it, (again lol) it looks like he had ment to single the 308 "case size" out?

DM

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #17 on:** July 20, 2009, 07:21:37 AM »

Not to change the subject to 308 Vs 30-06 But in some of the loading books they have the 308 with 165 grain bullets going faster with the same or less powder than the 30-06. And while I agree the 30-06 will outshine the 308 with the heavier bullets the 308 is a great round that will do everything you ask of it.
Now to the 338 Fed. It allows you to shoot heavier bullets and still have room for powder. It is what they wanted the 358 to be.
I have been thinking one would be great for a kids elk rifle. Short action, mild recoil and an accurate round. Heck I have been thinking of one for my self.
As far as the 327 Fed. I do see it being a pretty neat round for all kinds of stuff and can see getting a single six in one. Will shoot 357 mag in power and will take 32 H&R, 32 S&W Long and short. So pretty versitle round from medium game on down. I think one would be fun in a Ruger rotary action Bolt or an H&R Handi.
I can see merit in the 300 and 338 Ruger rounds getting 300 Win and 338 Win Mag out of a short action but I think they are going to have trouble being the last on the market and the guys that thought a mag in short action has already leaned to the WSM rounds.
The 375Ruger is another neat Idea and Had I not already owned a 375H&H I would be looking at one. I like the Alaska model they offer it in and think if I were where there are big bears one would be a good idea. Yes I know 30-06 will kill big bears. A 22 will kill a deer, does not make it the best round for that game.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #18 on:** July 20, 2009, 09:29:50 AM »

Quote

And while I agree the 30-06 will outshine the 308 with the heavier bullets the 308 is a great round that will do everything you ask of it.
Now to the 338 Fed. It allows you to shoot heavier bullets and still have room for powder.

OK, here we go again! You guys that just think the "heavier" bullet is the answer, keep forgetting about a number called SD. Compare the SD of the30 cal. 200 NP, to the SD of the .338 210NP.

Quote

Yes I know 30-06 will kill big bears. A 22 will kill a deer, does not make it the best round for that game.

A "properly loaded" 30-06 does a great job, and here's more of what Phil said.

And i quote: "I used the 200 partitions for all my guiding; including brown and grizzly bears. I found they gave as much penetration as my 375 and if the bears died any slower i never noticed it."

And i agree with him,

DM

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #19 on:** July 20, 2009, 12:08:21 PM »

SD just has to do with how long a bullet is. Yes it has a lot to do with penitration and has more to do with flight over distance and how fast it bleeds energy. If we are talking about shooting up to 150 to 200 yards than I really do not think SD Matters on game.

And when looking at a 30-06 most people can shoot a 308 / 30-06 well. the recoil is nothing that will make them flinch and I can see why anyone writting about guiding would want a customer to have a medium speed 30 cal. Same as the guys in Africa would want a client to have a 375 for DG. A well placed first shot is what is needed on most game and espesally game that thinks of you as food.

Now there are reasons for the 308 based rounds over the 30-06 rounds.
the case is a little more efficient so less powder can be used to acheive the same speeds.
with less powder there is less recoil.
the rifle can e made a little lighter so the shooter is not as tired after carring the gun around all day in the field.
with less recoil, the same speeds and power in a lighter package why would you not want a 308 based case for most game instead of the 06. Also with the advent of the bullet technology and the better bullets a lighter bullet can be used to do the same damage as the old style heavier bullets.
I still find it funny that I will argue 308 over 30-06 all day long but will reverse the same arguements for a 12ga over 20 ga for wing shooting.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #20 on:** July 20, 2009, 12:35:31 PM »

All i know is, when you use a .338 bullet for DG, it needs to be 250 or heavier and it needs to have decent velocity. The Federal doesn't have enough case capacity to push heavy bullets, that heavy, with decent velocities.

It's the same problem with the 308, it doesn't have enough case to push 200 NP's fast enough... The 30-06 is my min. on DG.

SO, in this case, SD "does" mean something for under 150 yard shots...

DM

billy_56081 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 20, 2009, 01:07:13 PM »

I'm still sticking to my first though when the 338 federal came out "what a stupid idea". There is no need to second guess that one.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #22 on:** July 21, 2009, 11:28:58 AM »

Quote from: mcwoodduck on July 20, 2009, 12:08:21 PM

SD just has to do with how long a bullet is.

Actually, bullet length does not enter into the mathematical formula that is used to calculate SD. Bullets with very different lengths can have identical SDs and bullet with the same length can have very different SDs. All that matters is bullet weight and diameter. Differences in construction and profile will determine length.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #23 on:** July 21, 2009, 11:32:32 AM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on July 20, 2009, 01:07:13 PM

I'm still sticking to my first though when the 338 federal came out "what a stupid idea". There is no need to second guess that one.

OK, you don’t like it, so don’t buy one.

I haven’t purchased on either but like the cartridge. I think it would make an excellent choice for hogs, where I like big diameter bullets. Can’t imagine it failing on elk or deer, either, at any range I’ve ever taken such animals. And for deer in the swamps or dense woods, I again think a fat bullet is a better choice.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 21, 2009, 11:58:26 AM »

The idea being stupid is not that it won't be a decent performer on game. The stupid in the idea comes from it aint gonna sell worth a darn. Commercial cartridges need a market, the 338 fed has almost no market. Most who would be in the market for this would be just as happy wildcatting it.

jasonprox700 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 21, 2009, 01:40:59 PM »

The .338 Federal has been wildcatted for years. Even if the factory ammo goes away, it can easily be made from .308 brass. I think it may stick. Especially as a hog gun or short range deer gun. I even thought about it myself.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #26 on:** July 21, 2009, 05:29:19 PM »

Thought real hard about one, then bought a BLR in 358 Win. and ain't thinkin bout it no mo.

DP

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #27 on:** July 22, 2009, 03:45:31 AM »

Coyote Hunter,
When I wrote SD = length I ment what you said.
As you know if you have a 308 bullet that weighs 180 grains of lead it will be so long.
if it is made of copper it will be longer as copper is lighter than lead.
and if you make it out of the Heavy shot material it will be shorter than the lead.
As you shape the bullet to a pointy end or boat tail the end it also adds length.
the long thing bullets have great SD.
A 300 grain 458 does not have a good SD but still a great bullet out of a 45-70.
Same goes for the 338 bullets out of a short case a little wider, heavier, and same length as the .308 counter part.

Sourdough · « **Reply #28 on:** August 07, 2009, 10:35:13 AM »

I would be interested in any .338 short cartridge that could match the .338-06. It would fit in an AR action and I could use one here in Alaska. I'm not at home now to check the ballistics on the short cartridges, so i cannot say if any of them meet my criteria.

Drilling man: I don't speak for other Alaskans, just myself and the people I know who feel the same way I do. We have sen a lot of Moose and Caribou lost by hunters using the .308 cartridge. Animals that would have gone down with the identical shot from a 30-06.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #29 on:** August 07, 2009, 12:23:41 PM »

Quote from: Sourdough on August 07, 2009, 10:35:13 AM

I would be interested in any .338 short cartridge that could match the .338-06. It would fit in an AR action and I could use one here in Alaska. I'm not at home now to check the ballistics on the short cartridges, so i cannot say if any of them meet my criteria.

Drilling man: I don't speak for other Alaskans, just myself and the people I know who feel the same way I do. We have sen a lot of Moose and Caribou lost by hunters using the .308 cartridge. Animals that would have gone down with the identical shot from a 30-06.

I hunted all over the state "extensively", and i didn't see the folks i hunted with having the problems i see you write about all the time.

What i saw was, with good bullets, on nondangerous game, (including moose) the 308 will do anything the 06 will do, except it will have about a 50 yard or so shorter max range... I just don't believe in those 400 yard shots anyway, and i could always get a bit closer.

DM