Author Topic: For Obama supporters ..Question #3... (Read 5839 times)

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #90 on:** June 09, 2009, 08:31:18 AM »

My take on health care stems from several things that have happened the last 50 years.

One is in 1960 45% of Americans worked in manufacturing jobs. Most were covered with company provided health care and insurance. At that time about 80% of Americans had some form of health care. Farmers, the poor, unemployed, and retired were usually the ones not covered. Today only about 15% of Americans are in manufacturing, with most new jobs created the last 20-25 years were with small business owners like plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc. A lot of them do not provide insurance or use part time help.

Second with the advent of Aids and STD's, drug use, etc, a drain on health care and research has been taken away from things like cancer research and put into Aids research. Pat Robertson said there would be a health care crisis in the future if we didn't quarinteen Aids victims.

Third, with the influx of ILLEGAL aliens, they have put a drain on health care because of bringing in disease and using the hospital emergency rooms.

The fix I see, is:

One, bring the jobs back home with their associated benefits. Give employers tax breaks to provide insurance.

Two, stop the illegals.

Three, quarinteen Aids and other victums of disease in which there is no cure.

Then, the government would go back to only helping the poor and retired.

Also, the government might should cover preventitive care like vaccines.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #91 on:** June 09, 2009, 08:35:51 AM »

TM-7 to be honest i have long term care for when that time comes . Its a policy thru. work that will be with me to the end . I didn't want to have to give up everything . And yes its a bit pricy but it works for me .
The post office if you feel it is great then enjoy , Why do their employees go postal ?
SS . you made my point THANK YOU ! they "had" a good thing and screwed it up need I say more ?
Education we all know who pays for it along with utilities etc. The point is the fed. govt. got involved and it has suffered and resulted in lower standards where standards are left. The students are getting less education fopr money spent . ( Is that how health care should be less care for cost ? )
Around here when the before the break up of MA BELL my bill was about 15 dollars all from one source . Now i pay well over 50 with more paper than the NRA mails me each mo. I pay one company for long distance who pays my local company for the use of the wire that is already connected to my home for local service . I don't know how your country does it but I for one liked MA BELL . Think about it back in the day it cost 20 cent to make a phone call and 25 to mail a letter so the screw with the phone company go figure ! And service sucks stump water now ! Back then power could be out but the phone worked !
AA my point was it was just another bright idea that cost more than its worth . But thanks making me think about it to you i wonder if less qualifyed doctors will be put in positions ? AND WE WILL HAVE NO CHOICE AS TO WHOM WE SEE !

ironglow · « **Reply #92 on:** June 09, 2009, 09:42:13 AM »

Only fair to note;
At a big Republican shindig last night, John Voight..one of the few celebrities in the Reps camp, pronounced BHO as the "false prophet"..

I am not endeared to either party right now, but I thought this individual's observation may be telling.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #93 on:** June 09, 2009, 10:03:48 AM »

I guess pointing out TM7s false fact the Winnepeg (Canada's 8th largest city) is not a "remote" place is considered a personal attack by him.

BHO is a sleeper muslim, even graybeard agrees on that one. No need to try tochange the subject.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #94 on:** June 09, 2009, 10:04:10 AM »

I own the company and the policy so i can continue it if the company closes . No shame security I won't be a burden to my family .
You and i both know Ben's PO is not what we have today .
BTW I'm not anti American just the opposite I'm pro American that is before America started to CHANGE ! You should have to pay taxes to vote !
We have a Great military shame you and others don't realize that .
Good idea on education or at least let the states run it as they see fit . Maybe you can explain how education and the commerce clause mesh ?
SS Its been robbed by the people who should protect it PERIOD . MA BELL worked at a lower cost nuff said !
AA no knee jerk it is a screwed up system . This is why - I bid in competition with minority companies that get the job when their price is higher . There are minority companies that you can call with your bid and they add a fee and submit the bid knowing they will get it .The can't be back charged for holding up a job ( holding up other contractors pay )etc. Its so bad now we have to disclose our suppliers so general contractors can make sure they use enough minorities . Incase you read it to fast that means the tax payer is paying more for a job than they should . This is but one example the system is full of them . What did we do ? teach them to play the system ? At Fort Lee Va. they are doing over a billion dollars worth of improvements think how much savings we would see if only a % or 2 were saved .
It would be nice to get back to the orig. intent of our founding fathers that i can agree !

teamnelson · « **Reply #95 on:** June 09, 2009, 11:37:14 AM »

Under Islam, it is the responsibility of the wealthy to provide alms to the poor, particularly on major holidays. But it is voluntary; not government mandated. Perhaps if Obama read his Quran he'd take a different approach on HC, and other social reforms.

BBF · « **Reply #96 on:** June 10, 2009, 12:10:59 AM »

[/quote]
.
I can tell that is the case because Billy always starts personal attacks when he runs out of logic and too much sense is happening.

..TM7
[/quote]

There are one or two others that do that as well.

Dee · « **Reply #97 on:** June 10, 2009, 01:41:57 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on June 09, 2009, 09:42:13 AM

Only fair to note;
At a big Republican shindig last night, John Voight..one of the few celebrities in the Reps camp, pronounced BHO as the "false prophet"..

I am not endeared to either party right now, but I thought this individual's observation may be telling.

Jon Voight may have spoken at a Republican "shindig" last night, but he is NOT A REPUBLICAN, by today's REPUBLICAN STANDARDS. He is most assuredly an INDEPENDENT. No Republican would have the nerve to say what he said, or how he said it. Good for Jon Voight, and maybe he will go where he belongs. INDEPENDENT!

The Republican party is not going to do a damn thing, and is merely WAITING ON THEIR NEXT TURN TO BE IN CHARGE.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #98 on:** June 10, 2009, 01:54:54 AM »

TM7 where do you live? Answer us all that!

I have lived in Minnesota a large portion of my life. I have seen first hand the Candan people coming to medical centers in Thief River Falls, MN, Grand Forks, ND, and Fargo, ND. They even have a seperate billing station for "international" patients. They come down for mediacal treatemnt that Canada's overstressed system cannot handle in a timley manner.

I do no think Winnepeg could be considered "remote" by any means. It is within and hour and a half of the border. If you consider me pointing out that your "facts" are made up being a personal attack then well I guess it is.

powderman · « **Reply #99 on:** June 10, 2009, 02:27:58 AM »

Osama is no longer a sleeper, he's active now, and doing what he's waited years for. POWDERMAN.

Dee · « **Reply #100 on:** June 10, 2009, 03:41:09 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on June 04, 2009, 02:14:51 PM

Quote from: Dee on June 04, 2009, 01:56:08 PM
Well BBF, they interviewed a Canadian on the news the other day in Oklahoma City whom came down to see a heart specialist before he died. He had been waiting in Canada for TWO YEARS just to get into get evaluated to see if he COULD see a Canadian heart specialist.
He had the money, as he was a business man, but Canada's socialized medicine program kept pushing him back.
When the Oklahoma City heart specialist got the test results back, he immediately scheduled him for surgery and according to the man and the doctors it saved his life. He would have most likely died if he had remained in Canada according to HIM and the Ok. City doctors.
If you get sick up there in Canada and don't want to come down here to see a real doctor that's ok by me. We're too crowded anyway.

You have me on ignore. Your supposed to be ignoring me.

So, one Canadian got saved the other day in the nick of time when 15,000 Americans didn't get saved. Sounds like a bunch of propaganda bunk again....

..TM7

I posted this several days ago, and this is how you treated the news interview, and article. Even with examples, if it doesn't FIT YOUR BELIEF OF THE SYSTEM, you call it "propaganda bunk".
The Oklahoma City news agencies didn't think it was bunk, and reported on it. I suppose by your analogy it is "bunk" if YOU SAY IT IS.
This is but one example of what is happening in Canada, but you refuse to see, or believe it because you don't want to. You instead SIDE WITH A FOREIGNER against America, whom constantly criticizes America, and AMERICANS.

I myself have recently gotten a PM from a Canadian whining about my responses to his attacking America, and he considers them PERSONAL ATTACKS against himself. Well, BBF, if you attack my homeland, by slandering it, you are attacking ME. Like it or not, I WILL RESPOND. I don't know whom the other "Texan" was you spoke of in you PM, but I hope he continues to DEFEND HIS COUNTRY AGAINST FOREIGNER CRITICIZM.
Also as I said in my email response to you BBF. I have nothing against your sister or her family (didn't even know you had one) and are not concerned about her being an American citizen. Nor do I have anything against your alleged born in America children. Didn't know about them either. And as I said, in Texas we call them ANCHOR BABIES when Mexicans try to use them for gaining entrance into America ILLEGALLY. That would also apply to Canadians trying to do the same thing. My TIFF IS WITH "YOU"!
These other folks VOTE IN AMERICA, WORK IN AMERICA, PAY TAXES IN AMERICA, DEFEND AMERICA, LIVE IN AMERICA, AND LOVE AMERICA. YOU, BBF, DO NONE OF THE ABOVE.
And as I said in my PM. YOU HAVE ME ON IGNORE, SO IGNORE ME! YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT FROM ME WHEN YOU CRITICIZE AMERICA. IT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR OVER A YEAR.

SO BBF! PMing me will do no good. You know what the problem is, as do I. There is but one way to stop it, and you have declined to decease and desist slamming America. So please do not PM me anymore. It is fruitless, and non-productive.

Now TM7, back to you.
I myself have much against our government as it has become a rogue government whom cares not what the AVERAGE AMERICAN thinks, however, facts are everywhere about Canada's FAILING socialist medical care, and OURS IS STILL THE BEST IN THE WORLD ALTHOUGH IT HAS IT'S PROBLEMS. That's why folks from all over the world come here for medical treatment they can't get anywhere else. NOW THAT'S A FACT JACK!

billy_56081 · « **Reply #101 on:** June 10, 2009, 03:52:57 AM »

Well said Dee.

The people coming to northerm MN and ND are paying cash, travers checks or with credit card. That is why the health care industry near the border is flourishing. These people are paying out of their own pockets to receive timly care.

gypsyman · « **Reply #102 on:** June 10, 2009, 04:39:29 AM »

Since this thread seems to be staying on health care, just watched a news clip on Fox. A Republican rep from Wyoming just stated that some of the politicians in D.C. are calling the Canadian system the trick or treat system. Seems they only alocate so much money for certain operations. And most of the time, the money runs out right around the end of Oct. So if your scheduled to have hip surgery,shoulder,hernia,whatever, if your operation is in Nov. or Dec. it can very well be postponed till after New Years. Sounds just like the medical health care I want.(NOT)
He also mentioned, that there was a women, who is a member of the Canadian parliment, that had cancer. AMAZINGLY, she came to the U.S. for treatment. That makes you wonder?? gypsyman

Dee · « **Reply #103 on:** June 10, 2009, 05:10:08 AM »

gypsyman, surely you are mistaken. Surely that information is nothing more that what TM7 calls, propagandized "bunk".
Your obvious motive is to personally attack Canadians whom just want to live, and come over here for medical treatment they cannot get in Canada. How petty of you.

Questor · « **Reply #104 on:** June 10, 2009, 05:10:57 AM »

Gypsyman:

Canada's budget for health care is tide to a percent of GDP. I think it's 10%. And when the budget limit is reached, that's it. No more spending. Strange it works that way because I'm sure they can find money any time they want for frivolous spending.

Dee · « **Reply #105 on:** June 10, 2009, 05:22:56 AM »

Tell me Questor. You make a valid, well known point. Could it be that the Canadian government is trying to decide who lives and whom dies there?
It certainly is where we in the United States seem to be heading. Are the Canadians our model of what is to come?

gypsyman · « **Reply #106 on:** June 10, 2009, 07:02:17 AM »

The things you learn on this site. Questor, I didn't know that about the Canadian health system. Now if I can put this together, I believe a few years ago, the Canadian govt. was buying back millions of dollars worth of guns from law abiding citizens, is this not correct! So what that means,is, they can buy your gun, but can't get you a hernia operation. (Probably from toting that big heavy gun to the police buy back station)
Maybe they need to go to the barter system. Browning Citori for a shoulder operation. Wonder how many Winchesters for open heart surgery?? gypsyman

billy_56081 · « **Reply #107 on:** June 10, 2009, 07:43:30 AM »

And TM7 Winnepeg is not a province, it is a city in the province of Manatoba.

jimster · « **Reply #108 on:** June 10, 2009, 10:03:04 AM »

I don't even know what the argument is about anymore. We all agree Government does not work for us here in the US, we all agree they already broke the things they controlled. Handing them health care is dumb, cause our government has proven they are not worthy of responsibility...period. since we all seem to agree on that, giving them health care before they are under control is dumb. Look what they did to Medicare and such....expensive as heck and they have listes of things they will pay for...but nothing that most people want, just try to get something that is not on the "list". For crying out loud talk to someone that does medical billing for a living and see what government can do to wreck things. All this talk of government control is sickening...and that's only because they regulate things and skim money off things to the point where it's a crime and won't do no good.
Jeeezzzz.....just recently....did the bail outs work for the car companies? Did Government owning them help? Did spending their way out of debt help so far? LOL!!!! C'mon people, wake up...you going to give them health care too without a fight? Ohhhhhh....man....how many times you have to be kicked before you wake up? Our government spends 200 bucks for a hammer when they are in charge...imagine what a needle will cost! Hey...let's let them
tell us what a surgeon is worth too....and watch them all go away. For crying out loud...these people we call government are about to tax the farts on farm animals and charge the farmers! You going to give them health care on top of everything else?? Well...hey, don't worry...they will probably TAKE health care. !!

Ya...let's compare France and the Brits....conservatives are about ready to take over those places after the mess they have from too much socialism.

TM7....why don't we agree to fix government FIRST...since we know they are busted....then we can talk about SOME government health care...that does not interfere with private health care...and we want to know where every penny goes. We don't know where ANY money goes right now. So now it's a good idea to LIMIT all power they have...and REVERSE things they have done first. That will give a message as well.
They think we are all ignorant as it is...and they are pretty close to being right about that for a large share of the people. Anyone who would give them something else to break...has to be ignorant at this stage of the game.

teamnelson · « **Reply #109 on:** June 10, 2009, 10:10:53 AM »

TM7 ... the premise of a commonwealth or socialist HC system is that all citizens are entitled to HC. Would you agree with that premise?

Granted that does not solve the questions of 1) who is a citizen, 2) who/how do we underwrite the costs involved, 3) how do we distribute limited resources for unlimited care requirements, or most importantly, 4) who makes the tough call on the fringe cases, and how.

It seems you disagree with a free market, Capitalist approach to health care not on principle, but on how it has been implemented in our country. It would seem the recent election in the EU reflects the popular concern that non-citizens are receiving citizen benefits, among other issues. Reading the world news, and blogs, there are many like you who are disgruntled with "how" HC is being implemented, and assume the underlying premise is flawed. Especially when the other premise seems to solve the perceived flaws ... grass is always greener, and so forth.

So should we be debating principles with practice, and vice versa, or finding a good premise, and reforming practice?

Grass grows great when fed a regular diet of manure.

ironglow · « **Reply #110 on:** June 10, 2009, 10:24:02 AM »

I mlive about 40-45 miles SE of Buffalo..(as the crow flies). I see many of them on a regular basis since they come down to my home area to ski some well known slopes etc. Because they are stuck with what they have, I won't criticize Canadians, except the liberal ones who vote the libs into power.
It is a well known fact that Canadians do often cross the border into Buffalo or even Cleveland, simply because of the rationing of services.
Are there "ration cards" etc, not really. ..But when put on an impossibly long waiting list, one may well die during the wait.
The curious thing is that such a result is due to an ultra-liberal policy. They have long waiting lists, so those who can afford to pay for their surgery etc..get cared for here in the US.
Those who can't foot the tab...go on waiting.

Similar to socialist economics; "O" says he wants to "spread the wealth around" more than likely, the most he will accomplish is to "spread the poverty around."

DDZ · « **Reply #111 on:** June 10, 2009, 10:29:19 AM »

To rehabiltate government, how about having them doing something right for we-the-people for a change. Nobody said it will be easy.

..TM7
[/quote]

I think you can forget about government doing something right for we the people. How can we can change it by voting? Heck this country just voted in a Muslim dictator for president. The only way government is going to change for, we the people, is if we the people have a revolution, and no it won't be easy.

newstart2k · « **Reply #112 on:** June 10, 2009, 10:36:49 AM »

So it's only a democracy if I voted with the majority? If I'm in the minority then we start a revolution? Hmmmm....That's an interesting take on patriotism don't yah think?

jimster · « **Reply #113 on:** June 10, 2009, 10:50:23 AM »

Revolution is very American. ThT'S HOW THE COUNTRY WAS FORMED. The majority is not always right, or moral...that's why we have a republic, it takes longer to tear that down than a full blown democracy. Although in time, with enough corruption and no revolutions...it can be done, and IS being done.

We fought to the death for being taxed and controlled. Guess what...we might just have to do that again if the voting booths do not work.
The majority means nothing if the majority disregards freedom and the constitution. Votes are easy to get. Everyone that works at a car company/union/ car parts supplier will probably vote for tax payer money to hold them up...so they CAN FEED THIER FAMILIES! Anyone getting this yet? They have just secured a whole lot of votes....now someone convince me different. Government control is what we were warned about since the very begining. Revolution sets things right....protesting is a start...guns is last resort for sure, but it HAS to be an option, or nobody will ever be free again.

No free man or group of people ever became free by negotiations with a tyrancial corrupt government. They needed to fight to the death.

Jim

newstart2k · « **Reply #114 on:** June 10, 2009, 11:01:27 AM »

So it's "Of the people, by the people, and for the people" only as long as it's MY people?

jimster · « **Reply #115 on:** June 10, 2009, 11:40:46 AM »

No...it's freedom....no matter what the people say or think.

I'm a free man. The majority does not have to think like that at all....I still think like I'm free, no matter what the "majority" thinks....

That's the way it has to be...if your free.
I stick a 45 down my pants when I go away...it's legal here...if it was not...I'd stkck a 45 down my pants when I went away anyway. Because I'm free.

Hard to explain...to people who think freedom is something you vote on and the majority always rules.
The revolution in this country to become free..was fought by only about 1/3 of the people...the rest were the majority....

newstart2k · « **Reply #116 on:** June 10, 2009, 11:47:32 AM »

I, (name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

I stood and swore that oath the first time when I was 18. Did it again at shipovers. Meant every word of it every time I said it even way back then. I don't think any less of it now and would take it again if needed.

newstart2k

gypsyman · « **Reply #117 on:** June 10, 2009, 11:53:33 AM »

I don't think it's either, in the context you put it. It's a privilege, that you have to EARN. I work my butt off most of the time, 7 days a week, so I can PAY for it. If somebody is healthy enough to work, then they should pay for their own damn health care. Why should I have to foot the bill for somebody that is too lazy or an illegal.
In the one post your leading me to believe that the Canadian system is good, but in another, your condeming a govt. for fowling things up. Which is it? gypsyman

jimster · « **Reply #118 on:** June 10, 2009, 11:55:41 AM »

And if your president was a DOMESTIC enemy....? Tyranical governments have presidents too.

Many in the military would not follow certain orders....and some of course would. Nobody knows what those numbers would be, but there would indeed be numbers.
That's called a revolution. The military has always had a certain amount of solders peel off during revoultions...it's just one of those things that happen when things get out of hand. We have hear officers on this site come out and say there are orders they would not follow, so it's as true today as it was all through history.

jimster · « **Reply #119 on:** June 10, 2009, 12:10:17 PM »

Now, if you are a capitalist adherent, then consider my proposal to get back to real capialism and do away with all these socially contrived insurance schemes and let the market forces common to bare...all will pay as you go, prices will drop, government can take a hike, and we'll all be free and happy. And why not..?

I like that!