Obama blocks helicopters to Israel, and approves 12 to Egypt...DO U agree

[Tommyt]

#1 Again I asks your thought on this..........mine are ......Foolish completely wrong...IMHO
 my next post was to be on ,but I'll ask it here hope it doesn't get confusing

#2 What do you think about No. Korea , Nukes and Our Country
Tommyt
On the NK.Nukes
I am scared I truly am
 Pray and thats all I'll say for the moment
Pray, Pray Hard, his could get Bad Fast IMHO
Remember a lot of People said he would get tested within 6 months
this maybe it .....IMHO


http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=43763

# 1
   Monday, June 1, 2009
Obama administration blocks sale of 6 AH-64D helicopters to Israel - approves 12 to Egypt

President Obama holds up supply of helicopters to Israel out of concern for
Palestinian civilians.

But when it comes to 12 of the same helicopters for Egypt its the standard
boiler plate "The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter
the basic military balance in the region."]

#1 Administration blocks helicopters for Israel due to civilian casualties
in Gaza
Wednesday, May 27, 2009
http://www.worldtribune.com/wo...7.asp

WASHINGTON - The Obama administration has blocked Israel's request for
advanced U.S.-origin attack helicopters.

Government sources said the administration has held up Israel's request for
the AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopter. The sources said the request
was undergoing an interagency review to determine whether additional Longbow
helicopters would threaten Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip.

"During the recent war, Israel made considerable use of the Longbow, and
there were high civilian casualties in the Gaza Strip," a source close to
the administration said.

The sources said Israel has sought to purchase up to six new AH-64Ds in an
effort to bolster conventional and counter-insurgency capabilities. They
said Israel wants to replenish its fleet after the loss of two Apache
helicopters in the 2006 war with Hizbullah.

The Israel Air Force has also requested U.S. permission to integrate the
Spike extended-range anti-tank missile into the AH-64D. Spike ER, developed
by the state-owned Rafael Advanced Defense Systems, has a range of eight
kilometers and was installed on the Eurocopter Tiger and AgustaWestland A129
helicopters.

The sources said the deployment of Spike would require integration into the
Longbow's millimeter-wave fire control and acquisition system. They said
this would require permission from both Boeing and the U.S. government.

Israel's Defense Ministry and air force have discussed procurement of
additional Longbows with the U.S. firm Boeing. But the sources said the
Longbow as well as other defense requests have been shelved by the
administration amid its review of the potential use of American weapons
platforms by Israel.

During his visit to the United States, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu
also sought to win approval from the Defense Department for the installation
of Israeli-origin electronic warfare systems in the Joint Strike Fighter.

Netanyahu was said to have met Defense Secretary Robert Gates in a review of
Israeli defense programs with the United States. Defense Minister Ehud Barak
was scheduled to meet Gates in Washington in early June

=====
#2 Egypt - AH-64D APACHE Longbow Helicopters
(Source: US Defense Security Cooperation Agency; issued May 26, 2009)
http://www.defense-aerospace.c....html

WASHINGTON --- On May 22, the Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified
Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Egypt of
12 AH-64D Block II APACHE Longbow Helicopters and associated equipment,
parts, training and support for an estimated cost of $820 million.

The Government of Egypt has requested a possible sale of 12 AH-64D Block II
APACHE Longbow Helicopters, 27 T700-GE-701D Engines, 36 Modernized Targeting
Acquisition and Designation Systems/Pilot Night Vision Sensors, 28 M299
Hellfire Longbow Missile Launchers, 14 AN/ALQ-144(V)3 Infrared jammers, and
14 AN/APR-39B(V)2 Radar Signal Detecting Sets.

Also included: composite horizontal stabilizers, Integrated Helmet and
Display Sight Systems, repair and return, transportation, depot maintenance,
spare and repair parts, support equipment, publications and technical
documentation, U.S. Government and contractor technical support, and other
related elements of program support.

The estimated cost is $820 million.

This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national
security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a
friendly country which has been and continues to be an important force for
political stability and economic progress in the Middle East. This sale is
consistent with these U.S. objectives and with the 1950 Treaty of Mutual
Cooperation and Security.

Egypt will use the AH-64D for its national security and protecting its
borders. The aircraft will provide the Egyptian military more advanced
targeting and engagement capabilities. The proposed sale will provide for
the defense of vital installations and will provide close air support for
the military ground forces. Egypt will have no difficulty absorbing these
helicopters into its armed forces.

The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic
military balance in the region.

The prime contractors will be The Boeing Company in Mesa, Arizona, and St.
Louis, Missouri, General Electric Company of Lynn, Massachusetts, and
Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control in Orlando, Florida. There are no
known offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale.

Implementation of this proposed sale requires the assignment of one U.S.
Government representative to Egypt for a period of six years to provide
intensive coordination, monitoring, and technical assistance to assure a
smooth transition of the helicopters in country. Additionally, six
contractor representatives will be in Egypt conducting duties as Contractor
Field Service Representatives for a period of five years and with a possible
five-year extension.

There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of
this proposed sale.

This notice of a potential sale is required by law. It does not mean that
the sale has been concluded.

[rex6666]

WELL
IMHO
i think they should have let them have the 6 and 6 more at half price
and free ammo.
obama is trying to help the muslims every chance he gets.
this week he is going to the middle east to kiss butt, starting with the saudis.

[billy_56081]

I'm sure old Hussien wants to have his muslim terroist brothers well armed.

[powderman]

WELL
IMHO
i think they should have let them have the 6 and 6 more at half price
and free ammo.
obama is trying to help the muslims every chance he gets.
this week he is going to the middle east to kiss butt, starting with the saudis.

YEP. POWDERMAN. 

[Tommyt]

this week he is going to the middle east to kiss butt, starting with the saudis.

  I say the Meeting
Starts with a Bow and a Kiss

aaaarrgggghhhh 

[Cabin4]

No, I do not agree:
I'm not surprised. Since obama is a Muslim born in Kenya anyway, we should not be surprised he wants to arm the Muslims and de-arm the Jews. In any case, we should not be arming any country at this point. Let these countries fight it out without us involved in any way, shape or form. Involving ourselves in a foreign conflict means, that by default we have created at least one enemy for us. None of these countries are worth our blood or money. None.


Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Lomax, 1799:
I sincerely join... in abjuring all political connection with every foreign power; and though I cordially wish well to the progress of liberty in all nations, and would forever give it the weight of our countenance, yet they are not to be touched without contamination from their other bad principles. Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto."

[Redtail1949]

Obama is a complete fool the helicopters so stupid.

On North Korea you are right to be afraid and to be very afraid. North Korea is very unstable with a lunitic in controll, who now has supposedly transferred power to a looney son.

They are for real with a very powerful army that can and will fight on his orders.

Obama is not up to the task he has no balls and they know it. So right now North Korea is the real danger at the forefront ahead of all others. They could easily spark an armegeddon.

[torpedoman]

NEVER TRUST ISRAEL;  Read up  on the u.s.s. liberty.   N. korea has nukes because the last 3 presidents made deals with them and never kept their word.

[Tommyt]

The lunatic turned over one of the most deadliest weapons known to man to a 25 year old Retard
He said this son gets the thrown because the others are weak IMHO they have some compassion and intelligence
and I guess he doesn't see it that direction
 I pray this Kid doesn't get this wild Idea that he can become WORLD wide Famous and start his plan off by Hot loading one of those Missiles ,at 25 I say he's way to young to trust
I pray for us I truly due, for some reason @ 55 yrs. old, I never felt this uneasy about worldly things
Tommyt

[nomosendero]

The lunatic turned over one of the most deadliest weapons known to man to a 25 year old Retard
He said this son gets the thrown because the others are weak IMHO they have some compassion and intelligence
and I guess he doesn't see it that direction
 I pray this Kid doesn't get this wild Idea that he can become WORLD wide Famous and start his plan off by Hot loading one of those Missiles ,at 25 I say he's way to young to trust
I pray for us I truly due, for some reason @ 55 yrs. old, I never felt this uneasy about worldly things
Tommyt

No, me neither Tommy. How 'bout that, I'm 55 too, but I think we will see alot of scary stuff soon.

[ironglow]

  For all the suckers here who voted for him...Here's just another case of him showing his true, traitorus colors.

[alsaqr]

NEVER TRUST ISRAEL;  Read up  on the u.s.s. liberty.   N. korea has nukes because the last 3 presidents made deals with them and never kept their word.

+1

North Korea has long range missiles because Israel sold the technology to China.  In 1991 Israel sold US Patriot missile technology to China.  In addition, Patriot missiles were stolen from an unguarded ammo dump in Saudi Arabia and shipped to China by the our fine friends, the Saudis. 

[billy_56081]

So what its your proof of these missiles were stolen from an ammo dump in Saudi? I'd really like to hear this. Now don't be making crap up or tell us hearsay, I was in Saudi in 91 guarding a bunch of these. I happen to have been in the air Defence branch ofthe army. Please now alaqr lets see some proof.

Now here is another bit of false information that makes me even more suspicious of you information. "North Korea has long range missiles because Israel sold the technology to China.  In 1991 Israel sold US Patriot missile technology to China."  Are you talking about 2 different things? Patiot missiles are air defence missile not your long range ballistic missile technology.

I suspect you are either very very uninformed. I would hope you are not the kind of person who would either lie about something or use information you know is wrong because it supports your point of view.

I am still in contact with my old squad leader who is still on active duty. He is a full bird Colonel and he nor any of my old army buddys have ever heard of the Saudi Missiles being stolen.

[Sourdough]

The patriot missile is a small short range interceptor missile and has not a thing to contribute to a long range missile.  You're talking Mopeds and Semi-trucks here.

You think you guys are scared, I'm sitting here in range of those missiles right now without any further testing.  They can't reach the other states yet.  I'm sure both of the military bases, that I happen to live between, are already being targeted.  We are the closes bases to North Korea.  A nuke to either one and I'm toast.  Both and I'm charcoal.  It's six miles to the Air Force base, and twelve miles to the Army post.  The wife works on the Army post, and the boy is an intern at the Air Base.

[magooch]

Hey Sourdough,
Doesn't the Army still have missile sites guarding Eilson?  When I was stationed there (a long time ago), I saw a missile fired from one of the batteries and it was the most impressive thing I've ever seen.  I asked one of the Army guys who manned the defense batteries what they would do if we were tageted.  He told me that he couldn't talk about it, but not to worry--they had us covered.

[billy_56081]

Sourdough do you wonder if some of the people that are posting these "facts" really are so ignorant about what they are talking about or are just lying?

[BBF]

Nobody in the ME should be getting anything of military value.

[alsaqr]

So what its your proof of these missiles were stolen from an ammo dump in Saudi? I'd really like to hear this. Now don't be making crap up or tell us hearsay, I was in Saudi in 91 guarding a bunch of these. I happen to have been in the air Defence branch ofthe army. Please now alaqr lets see some proof.

Well, WOW!!!   Make a statment that does not suit your far out attitude and you call folks liars.  Way to go, Billy.  I'll just block your cheap talk. 

Patriot missiles were stolen from TSA 4.  I managed the destruction all of the US Army unserviceable ammo from Desert Storm and worked at the TSA4 ammo dump at KKMC for well over a year.    That ammo dump had a perimeter of 47 kilometers and it contained over 200,000 tons of ammo.  When the infantry guys who were guarding TSA4 at KKMC went home there was no security on the place.  The Saudi military were constantly stealing ammo.  For one full year, until all the ammo was shipped out, the US Army had no security on the ammo dump at KKMC.  The mine clearing line charges that were used to blow up Khobar Towers were stolen from a US Army ammo dump. 

Saudis have had a close relationship with red China since the early 80s.  The Saudis bought medium range ballistic missiles from the Chinese and had them installed in the Empty Quarter by 1987. 

When an MI full colonel friend tells me that the Saudis stole missiles from TSA 4 and gave them to the red Chinese I believe him. 

With friends like Saudi and Israel we don't need any enemies. 


http://www.nti.org/db/china/imisr.htm

China's missile-related imports and assistance from Israel have been a subject of particular concern in the United States because of worries that Israel may be providing China with "back door" access to controlled, sensitive US technology. For example, in the early 1990s, reports surfaced that Israel had secretly transferred information on the US Patriot missile system to China, in violation of Israel's promise to the United States not to transfer the Patriot technology to any third country. Although both China and Israel denied the allegations, US government sources concluded that it was almost certain that a transfer of technology (though not physical equipment) had taken place.

China is reportedly using the Patriot technology to improve its surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems and to develop countermeasures against the Patriot for its ballistic and cruise missiles; reports also indicated that China intended to sell these SAMs and enhanced missiles to other countries, possibly including Iran. Reports suggested various Israeli motives for the transfer: some suggested that Israel had traded Patriot information for information on China's missiles; others asserted that Israel's transfer of Patriot technology was intended to encourage China to curtail its sales of ballistic missiles to countries in the Middle East such as Syria and Iran.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39192

It came back to haunt the Israelis butts when China sold missiles to Iran. 

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/x98.html

[billy_56081]

Hey Alsaqr, so is this proof your good buddy told you the same proof, as your stolen patriots being "long range missile technology"?  Well? Because that my friend is 100% wrong, Patriots are short range air defence missiles. HMMM if your super smart buddy was wrong about them do ya think he was correct about the rest?

I stillo wanna see this "proof" of the missing missiles. So what is this TSA4 you speak of? So the Sauidis stole these missiles before 1987? WOW what a trip, GW1 90-91? Timeline is messed up. I'd love to see some proof, but from the compltly wrong untrue "facts" presented here I gather all you are telling is BS.

[slim rem 7]

 personally ,,i don t think we have a clue as to missle interception capabilities already in place,,,by U.S. military..at least thats my bet.. if korea sent one ,,,im thinking the minumum defence would be used to take it out... this so we don t show our hand.. this just my opinion...
 based on how long a time  anti missle work has been going on ,,,and the need to keep other world powers thinking ,,deterant is still the thing it was..hope im not wrong but it makes sense to me.. thats not sayin much ,,i guess.  slim

[rio grande]

I think we've given enough money and weapons to Israel, Egypt, and all those insane mid-east countries.
It's time to take care of our own country and stop throwing our weight around the world.
They are not worth it, and besides, we are out of $.

[FourBee]

# 1
   Monday, June 1, 2009
Obama administration blocks sale of 6 AH-64D helicopters to Israel

Looks like Israel is being isolated by her once ally amid a people who've made themselves obsessed with her utter destruction.

Isn't it prophesied in the Holy Bible that Israel would stand alone against the world?  At which time God will entice them to come together in the valley of Megido so that He can have a discussion with them?

[mirage1988]

So what its your proof of these missiles were stolen from an ammo dump in Saudi? I'd really like to hear this. Now don't be making crap up or tell us hearsay, I was in Saudi in 91 guarding a bunch of these. I happen to have been in the air Defence branch ofthe army. Please now alaqr lets see some proof.

Well, WOW!!!   Make a statment that does not suit your far out attitude and you call folks liars.  Way to go, Billy.  I'll just block your cheap talk. 

Patriot missiles were stolen from TSA 4.  I managed the destruction all of the US Army unserviceable ammo from Desert Storm and worked at the TSA4 ammo dump at KKMC for well over a year.    That ammo dump had a perimeter of 47 kilometers and it contained over 200,000 tons of ammo.  When the infantry guys who were guarding TSA4 at KKMC went home there was no security on the place.  The Saudi military were constantly stealing ammo.  For one full year, until all the ammo was shipped out, the US Army had no security on the ammo dump at KKMC.  The mine clearing line charges that were used to blow up Khobar Towers were stolen from a US Army ammo dump. 

Saudis have had a close relationship with red China since the early 80s.  The Saudis bought medium range ballistic missiles from the Chinese and had them installed in the Empty Quarter by 1987. 

When an MI full colonel friend tells me that the Saudis stole missiles from TSA 4 and gave them to the red Chinese I believe him. 

With friends like Saudi and Israel we don't need any enemies. 


http://www.nti.org/db/china/imisr.htm

China's missile-related imports and assistance from Israel have been a subject of particular concern in the United States because of worries that Israel may be providing China with "back door" access to controlled, sensitive US technology. For example, in the early 1990s, reports surfaced that Israel had secretly transferred information on the US Patriot missile system to China, in violation of Israel's promise to the United States not to transfer the Patriot technology to any third country. Although both China and Israel denied the allegations, US government sources concluded that it was almost certain that a transfer of technology (though not physical equipment) had taken place.

China is reportedly using the Patriot technology to improve its surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems and to develop countermeasures against the Patriot for its ballistic and cruise missiles; reports also indicated that China intended to sell these SAMs and enhanced missiles to other countries, possibly including Iran. Reports suggested various Israeli motives for the transfer: some suggested that Israel had traded Patriot information for information on China's missiles; others asserted that Israel's transfer of Patriot technology was intended to encourage China to curtail its sales of ballistic missiles to countries in the Middle East such as Syria and Iran.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39192

It came back to haunt the Israelis butts when China sold missiles to Iran. 

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/x98.html

[rio grande]

# 1
   Monday, June 1, 2009
Obama administration blocks sale of 6 AH-64D helicopters to Israel

Looks like Israel is being isolated by her once ally amid a people who've made themselves obsessed with her utter destruction.

Isn't it prophesied in the Holy Bible that Israel would stand alone against the world?  At which time God will entice them to come together in the valley of Megido so that He can have a discussion with them?

Israel of today is not the Israel of old, neither morally or genetically.  Israel's supremacist policies are the root cause of the current ugly state of affairs in the mid-east.  No one is more obsessed with destruction than the zionists who control Israels nuclear weapons - google the 'Samson option'.

[FourBee]

Israel of today is not the Israel of old, neither morally or genetically.  Israel's supremacist policies are the root cause of the current ugly state of affairs in the mid-east.  No one is more obsessed with destruction than the zionists who control Israels nuclear weapons - google the 'Samson option'.

That doesn't change the prophesy of the Holy Bible does it?

ps   I don't think it has missed one of its prophesies yet.

[ironglow]

Right on Fourbee;
   When Israel sits with no walls around her cities, enemies surround her, her "friends" desert her and some charismatic  wolf-in-sheep's-clothing sets up 7-year "peace"...be prepared ! 
     Then, "Look up. and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh" (Jesus, in Luke 21:28)      ...In fact, now is a great time to gather the family together for a Bible study on Luke 21.

     Of course, if some charismatic guy does conclude a phony 7-year "peace" between Israel and her enemies..we will then know his identity...But according to what most Christians believe, we won't be here to see it !

  TommyT;
  Sorry, but I cannot offer any great hope..the present leader of N Korea is a nutcase and apparently has chose his nuttiest progeny to succeed him. One never can predict nutcases such as the guy that shot "Tiller the killer" the Muslim that shot the Army recruiter..and the only difference between those two was one, the former likely acted alone, while the latter was trained to hate and murder by the "religion of peace".

   rio grande;
  I must vehemently differ with you. The Israel of today is morally, just about where it was 2,000 years ago and her familial bloodlines can be traced back farther than any other nation (e.g., most of those named Cohen, can be traced back to Aaron).
  Your accusations sound like the ramblings of someone who immerses himself in "conspiracy theories"..is that correct ? I just cannot fathom why some here hate Israel so much. You know of course, envy will get you nowhere...

[alsaqr]

I think we've given enough money and weapons to Israel, Egypt, and all those insane mid-east countries.
It's time to take care of our own country and stop throwing our weight around the world.

+1

[slim rem 7]

fourbees words bear some truth ,,, im thinking...
im not as much a fundamental bible person as some..
a lot of as is an metaphors were used to make points
  but,,its a foolish thing in my opinion. but i do think its what we have to guide usto guide us...i believe in the god ive come to know... one who is a benevolent father to us all....they are there in black an white.... but it doesn t matter to me ,,never has ...heck at best i have mabe 20 yrs or a little longer on this earth......then my schooling will be over an i ll have learned wisdom or not..i still know he s got his purpose in everything and also that he loves all his children..so i don t need to understand the future .... i ll just take care of today ,,as best i can...slim..im again typeing blind for some reason..can t see a thing im putting dn here. slim

[slim rem 7]

 i ll have to double post as i can t see where to start an edit of the previous post...i certainly didn t mean to be sayin the bible is foolishness.. but on reading my post ..it seems thats what i put dn...
 is anyone else not able to see thier words until they post..
it just recently started ,,an doesn t do it all the time..slim

[-Shaggy-]

IG...Bloodlines of those ruling present day Israel are not semitic at all...they are Khazar, nothing to do with Israelites but everything to do with zionism and terrorism. They have all but outlawed Christianity and Islam in Israel today. Abortion, homesexuality and many depravities are the norm in Israel..  Go for a visit.  Even good Israelis are calling their rulers nazis..it is that bad.

Alsaqr....good post, I was going to do it. There is more...it comes down to the frequent spieing on us today by Israelis and the slap on the wrisk they get, and the nuclear blackmail they do to this nation and the constant treachery. Who else had access to that ammo dump?  I bet I know.

Curiously, the helicopter deal cancelation coincided with the NSA finally deciding that the attack on the USS Liberty was a planned and measured attack on us. Just last week one USS liberty sailor was award a heroism medal for is role in countering the brutal sustained attack..bravo for him.

Meanwhile, those helicopters although canceled, are likely to be transferred to Israel as 'obsolete' materials and equipment avoiding payments all together. The Pentacon and Congress are still controlled by Israel. BTW,,,this coincides with the sale of the world's 24th largest military industry contractor...that would be the sale of GMC's Hummer division to China.

...TM7

GM selling the Hummer brand to China is no different than if they sold the Buick division to them. GM does not build the military HUMVEE and never has. The HUMVEE will still be built in the US by the AM General company, and the Chinese can continue putting different bodies on the Suburban chassis and calling them Hummers.