Author Topic: My $65 DIY .357 Mag Handi (Read 9362 times)

zoner · « **Reply #60 on:** April 16, 2009, 02:14:39 AM »

you guys that want to do what maglvr did might want to check out www.mcace.com. I found this from a link over on the h+r shotgun forum....they sell inserts for 12,16,20,and 410 shotguns. It says they go 6",10", or 18" long and you can get them in 32 H+R mag,218 bee,44 special,45 acp,45 colt. Sent them an email to see if these work in h+r single shots....you might be able to drop em in....glue em like he did,then do the same type of ejector mod he did. These inserts sell for less than 100 bucks. Will report back if i get more info.......Mike

Dweezil · « **Reply #61 on:** April 16, 2009, 11:05:43 AM »

Anybody know what kind of velocity I could get out of a .357 Mag. out of a 10 inch barrel, using say, a 158gr SWC?

Dweezil · « **Reply #62 on:** April 16, 2009, 11:14:17 AM »

Quote from: mtbugle on April 11, 2009, 01:28:12 PM

I just ordered 2 as well. Think I may have to try the bull barrel idea with it extending a few inches past muzzel. I plan on subsonic loads for urban rockchucks. 22 subsonic range is little limited, like to snipe a little farther. small noise keeps neighbers happy and permission to shoot in this area.
thanks Don.

I was thinking of something similar. Cut the .357 to 16.5 and the Shotgun barrel to 18.25 so no legal issues with either shotgun or rifle barrel being illegal. Of course, if the inner barrel was permanently attached, it could be as short as you want. Just keep the outer shotgun barrel longer than 18". I just received that clubbed barrel form Numrich and it is 16.5" right at the midline of the clubbed area so cutting it there would make for an easy 2 point mount to keep things lined up real nice. So many possibilities.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #63 on:** April 16, 2009, 02:10:26 PM »

Just got my barrel from Gun Parts Corp and I went with the 357 ejector. Next will come the donor barrel.

maglvr44 · « **Reply #64 on:** April 16, 2009, 05:40:03 PM »

Quote from: Dweezil on April 16, 2009, 11:05:43 AM

Anybody know what kind of velocity I could get out of a .357 Mag. out of a 10 inch barrel, using say, a 158gr SWC?

Plenty!!!

maglvr44 · « **Reply #65 on:** April 16, 2009, 05:48:41 PM »

Quote from: zoner on April 16, 2009, 02:14:39 AM

you guys that want to do what maglvr did might want to check out www.mcace.com. I found this from a link over on the h+r shotgun forum....they sell inserts for 12,16,20,and 410 shotguns. It says they go 6",10", or 18" long and you can get them in 32 H+R mag,218 bee,44 special,45 acp,45 colt. Sent them an email to see if these work in h+r single shots....you might be able to drop em in....glue em like he did,then do the same type of ejector mod he did. These inserts sell for less than 100 bucks. Will report back if i get more info.......Mike

Too expensive and not nearly as much fun as fitting your own

trotterlg · « **Reply #66 on:** April 16, 2009, 06:26:39 PM »

Aren't you even the slightest bit concerned about relying on glue to hold the barrel in the stub? I am afraid if you were sitting next to me at the range with that thing I would have to move down at least two benches. You should, at the very least, put a couple of pins through the barrel/stub. I know it is not my thread, but that looks to me like an accident waiting to happen and I would hate to see a bunch more of them cloned up. These things should either be built right or not at all. If you can find a single gunsmith that says it is safe to shoot I will eat my words and say I am sorry. Larry

Tommyt · « **Reply #67 on:** April 17, 2009, 01:26:38 AM »

Quote from: trotterlg on April 16, 2009, 06:26:39 PM

Aren't you even the slightest bit concerned about relying on glue to hold the barrel in the stub? I am afraid if you were sitting next to me at the range with that thing I would have to move down at least two benches. You should, at the very least, put a couple of pins through the barrel/stub. I know it is not my thread, but that looks to me like an accident waiting to happen and I would hate to see a bunch more of them cloned up. These things should either be built right or not at all. If you can find a single gunsmith that says it is safe to shoot I will eat my words and say I am sorry. Larry

Would you explain exactly what you think will happen that you would move down to seats

billy_56081 · « **Reply #68 on:** April 17, 2009, 01:59:42 AM »

If the glue fails, about the only thing that could happen is the barrel could head down range at a very very low velocity.

maglvr44 · « **Reply #69 on:** April 17, 2009, 03:31:34 AM »

Quote from: trotterlg on April 16, 2009, 06:26:39 PM

Aren't you even the slightest bit concerned about relying on glue to hold the barrel in the stub? I am afraid if you were sitting next to me at the range with that thing I would have to move down at least two benches. You should, at the very least, put a couple of pins through the barrel/stub. I know it is not my thread, but that looks to me like an accident waiting to happen and I would hate to see a bunch more of them cloned up. These things should either be built right or not at all. If you can find a single gunsmith that says it is safe to shoot I will eat my words and say I am sorry. Larry

Larry, if you read carefully what I did you will understand, the glue is doing NOTHING more than keeping the 357 barrel perfectly centered in the 12ga chamber, if the glue was not there at all the gun would still be perfectly safe to shoot! No different than any barrel insert on the market.
And YES, sometimes glue does belong on a firearm, as does paint. Just because you don't agree does not make it gospel.
As for eating your words, start nibbling my friend, i've been a gunsmith for over 30 years.

trotterlg · « **Reply #70 on:** April 17, 2009, 05:39:34 AM »

If you were a gunsmith you would have to tools and skills to do the job properly. I am done with this thread, if Graybeard wants someone blown up by a how to learned on his site then it is up to him, I think this is a very dangerous encouragement for unskilled people to build a dangerous project. See you later in another life. Larry

mtbugle · « **Reply #71 on:** April 17, 2009, 08:28:15 AM »

The new 357 barrels, are they cut off at the forward seating part of the cartridge, or does the barrel have the rim cut in them? I am wondering as to when mine shows up will I have to seat it back and rechamber in order to have metal to machine the rim where the shot shell rim would be. I assume this is how I would have to headspace/arrest forward thrust for a insert type project. I doubt that the shoulder restrictions are consistant enough in shot gun barrels to use for headspace/forward thrust stop. perhaps some others here would know better than I. Also wondering if those who have use the inserts have seen what rotational effects/how much rotational force, shooting these have on the insert?
thanks Don.

Dweezil · « **Reply #72 on:** April 17, 2009, 08:55:38 AM »

As I understand it the barrel insert is restrained by at least 2, maybe 3 things. 1. Forward motion is arrested by the tapered barrel insert matching the decreasing contour of the shotgun bore from chamber to bore. 2. Rearward motion is prevented by the breechface...assuming, of course it was headspaced correctly. This is essentially all that holds any subcaliber chamber adapter in place. 3. Inertia. If we assume Newton was right and for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, the relatively heavier object-the liner barrel-will be less likely to move than either the bullet or the case. I would agree that glue, or non-shrinking epoxy like JB Weld mostly keeps everything lined up and prevents rotation of the subcaliber insert with associated degradation in accuracy. Having said that, a couple blind pins thru the stub into the subcaliber adapter wouldn't be a bad idea if for no other reason that it may satisfy ATF requirements that you haven't inadvertantly simply created an illegal short barreled shotgun with your cut stub. I know spotwelded blind pins satisfy their requirements for barrel extensions making otherwise illegal short barrels exceed the legal limit. Just my .02 BTW, the SBR issue can be a bit overstated as there are literally thousands of folks with AR-15 variants in rifle configuration AND pistol configuration and all they would have to do to turn a legal rifle into an illegal unregistered SBR is push 2 pins in the receiver and swap uppers. In comparison, pounding a rifle stub out of a truncated shotgun stub is MUCH more difficult than this.

mtbugle · « **Reply #73 on:** April 17, 2009, 09:36:11 AM »

My most concern about rotational force is that I was planning on leaving as an insert, not adhering to barrel. As some benchrest guns have hand tightened barrels that may or may not need more than hand to spin back off afterwards leads me to believe it is small. My larger concern is how much forward thrust is there to worry about.
Thanks Don.

maglvr44 · « **Reply #74 on:** April 17, 2009, 01:31:56 PM »

Quote from: trotterlg on April 17, 2009, 05:39:34 AM

If you were a gunsmith you would have to tools and skills to do the job properly. I am done with this thread, if Graybeard wants someone blown up by a how to learned on his site then it is up to him, I think this is a very dangerous encouragement for unskilled people to build a dangerous project. See you later in another life. Larry

In all honesty, it's about time you stop bad mouthing this thread, just because a person does not have a lathe and/or full machine shop that fits your specifications is no reason they cannot do a stub project! Is is obvious you do not comprehend the assembly procedure or for whatever reason, can't admit there are other ways to accomplish a safe and sound stub conversion other than what you approve!
The mere fact the gun has now fired in excess of 300 max load, 200 grain hardcast hunting loads just might suggest it is more than just a barrel glued in place, if the 12ga stub was placed in a vise you couldn't drive the 357 barrel out with a sledge hammer!

Lucky Joe · « **Reply #75 on:** April 17, 2009, 03:15:58 PM »

Well I'm enjoying this thread, except for the little bit of bickering. If you read my motto below my signature you can see why.

jlwilliams · « **Reply #76 on:** April 18, 2009, 02:12:32 AM »

While agree that you may want to put a stitch of weld or some silver solder on the avoid legal issues with the stub, I see that the adapter would stay in place with or without the glue. I'm going ahead with something like this (357 in a Champion with a crappy bore) I have turned down the barrel on my mini lathe and have started the extractor modifications. I'll probably weld mine together. I also drilled the barrel ( the shotgun barrel) to screw a scope base on. I have a piece of base that I plan on milling a slot into so I can mount an M1 carbine sight into it. That way I will have a nice peep sight with a rail that I could put a scope on If I want to some time.

maglvr44 · « **Reply #77 on:** April 18, 2009, 02:36:43 AM »

Quote from: jlwilliams on April 18, 2009, 02:12:32 AM

While agree that you may want to put a stitch of weld or some silver solder on the avoid legal issues with the stub, I see that the adapter would stay in place with or without the glue. I'm going ahead with something like this (357 in a Champion with a crappy bore) I have turned down the barrel on my mini lathe and have started the extractor modifications. I'll probably weld mine together. I also drilled the barrel ( the shotgun barrel) to screw a scope base on. I have a piece of base that I plan on milling a slot into so I can mount an M1 carbine sight into it. That way I will have a nice peep sight with a rail that I could put a scope on If I want to some time.

Hi jlwilliams:
If by "champion" you mean one of the old Iver Johnson Champions by all means PLEASE test fire it(and not just 1 or 2 shots) with a string on the trigger, and you standing behind something solid just in case! the 357 has about 3 times the operating pressure of the typical shotgun shell.
The H&R & NEF guns are quite a bit stronger than a lot of the older guns.
The Savage 94 I just built, I used a 44spl barrel insert not only because I love the cartridge but because it operates in basically the same pressure range as shotgun shells, I wouldn't have dared to try it in 357 with the old Savage.
I'm not about to tell you don't do it, like some folks would because I know it would be wasted words, but please be careful and test it well before putting it on your shoulder!
Best of luck with your conversion.

jlwilliams · « **Reply #78 on:** April 18, 2009, 03:06:12 AM »

Sound advice. Thanks.

maglvr44 · « **Reply #79 on:** April 18, 2009, 01:06:31 PM »

Quote from: jlwilliams on April 18, 2009, 03:06:12 AM

Sound advice. Thanks.

Very welcome.

mtbugle · « **Reply #80 on:** April 22, 2009, 06:51:33 AM »

I started the work on my clubed barrel last night by bringing the forward bulge down real close to fit by keeping turning by hand using bench grinder. then set up a threaded 1/4" rod with double thickness of black tape to protect barrel from threads through barrel and rubber O-rings to protect end surfaces. tightened nuts to each end. then sandwiched a bearinged pully on each end then set pullies in notch cut in 1x4 held on edge by screwing to 2x4 which is affixed to work bench. Used 3/8 drill as power unit and files, sandpaper and drill bits to bring rest of way down. A 4x4 acts as a tool/hand rest to steady tooling. Now working on O-ring groove with small drillbit and edges of file. This actually works pretty good for a little imprompto lathe. As I have no machining experience I am just learning my way through this project.
Thanks Don.

maglvr44 · « **Reply #81 on:** April 22, 2009, 03:00:15 PM »

Quote from: mtbugle on April 22, 2009, 06:51:33 AM

I started the work on my clubed barrel last night by bringing the forward bulge down real close to fit by keeping turning by hand using bench grinder. then set up a threaded 1/4" rod with double thickness of black tape to protect barrel from threads through barrel and rubber O-rings to protect end surfaces. tightened nuts to each end. then sandwiched a bearinged pully on each end then set pullies in notch cut in 1x4 held on edge by screwing to 2x4 which is affixed to work bench. Used 3/8 drill as power unit and files, sandpaper and drill bits to bring rest of way down. A 4x4 acts as a tool/hand rest to steady tooling. Now working on O-ring groove with small drillbit and edges of file. This actually works pretty good for a little imprompto lathe. As I have no machining experience I am just learning my way through this project.
Thanks Don.

Hi Don:
Would love to see a pic of your lathe setup, just started building one similar today myself!
Happy smithing! who needs expensive tools? a REAL gunsmith can make the tool to make the part!
Keep us up to date!
Maglvr44

mtbugle · « **Reply #82 on:** April 23, 2009, 01:21:52 PM »

sorry I'm not much with pictures. I will see if wife can help with that in a day or so. I did however notice for those who do not wish to machine an 0-ring groove in the swell of barrel after bringing undersize to fit in 12 ga barrel. The # 11 O-ring in my set fits snugly on barrel just before and just after swell. It also has snug fit,but slides in barrel without undue force with a little oil lubrication in barrel. Should hold lateral movement in muzzle area to a minimum when done.
Thanks Don.

Hofs01 · « **Reply #83 on:** April 23, 2009, 04:54:12 PM »

Ok guys, I have held back on commenting on this thread for a while and I know all of you are competent of making their own decision. So.....

With no disrespect, I am shocked that this thread has gone on for so long. The first time I read masking tape, superglue dremel tool, nails, bench top belt sander, and beating it into place with a hammer sounds like someone is in the garage making a birdhouse for the wife not building a FIREARM!

I am with you and believe that the ejector is better than the extractor! Personally, I would not sacrifice the safety of myself or god forbid anyone else that may get the firearm down the road just for an ejector and some $.

Quote from: maglvr44 on December 10, 2008, 10:04:15 PM

I can honestly say "There is NO way I would trade one Rossi for 5 newer handis.
I still use and enjoy single shot H&R shotguns and always will i'm sure, as there is no shortage of the good older ones on the market, but my days of paying out my hard earned cash for second rate, needlessly overweight, handi's is over!
I know handi's have a great following and that is fine, we all have different ideals with the products we as consumers require. To each his own, as the saying goes.
Happy Holidays and SAFE shooting everyone!!!

I understand that you’re not happy with the current production barrels. Your $65.00 superglue stub is (in my opinion) second rate. To me safety is worth WAY more than the additional $65.00 for a new barrel. I will keep my eye out for an older 357 ejector barrel for you.

I do however applaud your ingenuity on finding a way to make one in the garage with no smith tools, I just wish it were more safety friendly.

SAFE shooting everyone!!!
Brian

myarmor · « **Reply #84 on:** April 23, 2009, 05:12:16 PM »

I agree. Please be careful if you endevor down this road.
It's fun to tinker and Do It Your Self, but I don't want to see anyone get hurt, OR get prison sentence for a 2-3"sawed off shotgun that was suppose to just be a stub. If it can chamber the shell then it's dangerous. Trowing a little caution to the wind here....

-Aaron

mtbugle · « **Reply #85 on:** April 23, 2009, 06:58:39 PM »

I appreciate the last couple of words of wisdom/warning posts. It is not a bad thing to have a second opinion when safety is thought to be a concern. I am not trying to blow myself up and am not planning on keeping a chamberable stub around. However one thing I did find tonight in the shop is that to take off a good bit of metal a hand grinder grinding at a near right angle to rotation of barrel on lathe seems to work pretty good. Then just fine tune and polish with files and emery cloth. Got my barrel down to about just the thickness of case rim from proper head space tonight.

maglvr44 · « **Reply #86 on:** April 24, 2009, 03:06:19 PM »

Quote from: Hofs01 on April 23, 2009, 04:54:12 PM

Ok guys, I have held back on commenting on this thread for a while and I know all of you are competent of making their own decision. So.....

With no disrespect, I am shocked that this thread has gone on for so long. The first time I read masking tape, superglue dremel tool, nails, bench top belt sander, and beating it into place with a hammer sounds like someone is in the garage making a birdhouse for the wife not building a FIREARM!

I am with you and believe that the ejector is better than the extractor! Personally, I would not sacrifice the safety of myself or god forbid anyone else that may get the firearm down the road just for an ejector and some $.
Quote from: maglvr44 on December 10, 2008, 10:04:15 PM
I can honestly say "There is NO way I would trade one Rossi for 5 newer handis.
I still use and enjoy single shot H&R shotguns and always will i'm sure, as there is no shortage of the good older ones on the market, but my days of paying out my hard earned cash for second rate, needlessly overweight, handi's is over!
I know handi's have a great following and that is fine, we all have different ideals with the products we as consumers require. To each his own, as the saying goes.
Happy Holidays and SAFE shooting everyone!!!
I understand that you’re not happy with the current production barrels. Your $65.00 superglue stub is (in my opinion) second rate. To me safety is worth WAY more than the additional $65.00 for a new barrel. I will keep my eye out for an older 357 ejector barrel for you.

I do however applaud your ingenuity on finding a way to make one in the garage with no smith tools, I just wish it were more safety friendly.

SAFE shooting everyone!!!
Brian

No disrespect meant on this end either...
If you understood, you'd understand. Do you really think a 357mag can generate the kind of pressure it would take to force the 357 barrel through the forcing cone of a 12ga barrel? If that were the case it would be by far, the world's cheapest source of energy! What part of "The chamber end of the 357mag barrel is shaped like a 12ga shotgun shell" (just like any other chamber liner on the market)do people not understand?
Read, read, read people, and ye too shall see the light;)

maglvr44 · « **Reply #87 on:** April 24, 2009, 03:27:01 PM »

Quote from: myarmor on April 23, 2009, 05:12:16 PM

OR get prison sentence for a 2-3"sawed off shotgun that was suppose to just be a stub. If it can chamber the shell then it's dangerous. Trowing a little caution to the wind here....

-Aaron

Barrels are blind pinned through the 12ga chamber and inseperable.

Spanky · « **Reply #88 on:** April 24, 2009, 03:34:11 PM »

If you are and have been a gunsmith for 30 yrs. why are you making barrels using a bench grinder and glue? Shadetree mechanics are OK for old cars but NOT FIREARMS. Now there seems to be a few people who are following your lead and dusting off the bench grinders, electrical tape and JB Weld. Somebody's gonna get themselves killed. I think Larry's points are valid and I hope some of these guys will read through his posts on barrel stubbing in the FAQ's. I have one of Larry's barrels in 32-20 and I have to say, the work is top notch. Whether Larry is a gunsmith or not isn't an issue... he builds SAFE barrels that a few of us are proud to own. I do admire your ingenuity and creativity but I fear for the safety of the guys who are following in your footsteps.

Spanky

maglvr44 · « **Reply #89 on:** April 24, 2009, 05:05:16 PM »

Quote from: Spanky on April 24, 2009, 03:34:11 PM

If you are and have been a gunsmith for 30 yrs. why are you making barrels using a bench grinder and glue? Shadetree mechanics are OK for old cars but NOT FIREARMS. Now there seems to be a few people who are following your lead and dusting off the bench grinders, electrical tape and JB Weld. Somebody's gonna get themselves killed. I think Larry's points are valid and I hope some of these guys will read through his posts on barrel stubbing in the FAQ's. I have one of Larry's barrels in 32-20 and I have to say, the work is top notch. Whether Larry is a gunsmith or not isn't an issue... he builds SAFE barrels that a few of us are proud to own. I do admire your ingenuity and creativity but I fear for the safety of the guys who are following in your footsteps.

Spanky

I have to say, not just any old single shot shotgun is a candidate for a rifle conversion, there are MANY old singles out there that should never be considered for such!
As with anything else, if one person makes something, someone else is going to give it a try with their own twists that don't always fit everyones ideals.
As for anyone elses guns being safer than mine, i'll just say this... i'd surely trust a forcing cone to hold back a whole lot more pressure than a few threads anyday