Author Topic: 5.5 lbs 458 Win Mag - what base rifle to use? (Read 6505 times)

gstewart44 · « **Reply #30 on:** July 03, 2009, 03:05:17 AM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on January 06, 2009, 01:08:43 PM

8 lb rifle 500 grain bullet, 65 grains powder, 2000 fps MV, recoil velocity 22.5 fps, free recoil energy 62.89 ft/lbs

5.5 lb rifle 500 grain bullet, 65 grains powder, 2000fps MV, recoil velocity 32.73 fps, free recoil energy 91.47 ft/lbs

If you want to see what that 91 lbs of recoil feels like out of a lightweight gun, get a NEF/HR pardner shotgun and a 3 1/2 " turkey barrel. This set up weighs between 5.5 and 5.75 lbs. touch off a Federal 2 oz load of # 6 and see how you handle it. This particular combo has been commented frequently as the worst recoil that people have experienced.

I have one and even with a limbsaver pad on it I'm only good for one shot and that is during Turkey season.

Hank08 · « **Reply #31 on:** July 03, 2009, 04:53:26 AM »

I talked to a guy last week who had similar ideas (and last of knowledge) wanted a lightweight .50 BMG designed like a sporter rifle. He envisioned driving in the Mts. and when he's see an B&C Elk 1000-1200 yds. across a canyon he's just stop and pop him. I was at a loss for words to do all the necessary explaining why this wasn't going to happen. Mikey's right best to just say "Oh yea, go for it".
H08

billy_56081 · « **Reply #32 on:** July 03, 2009, 05:03:42 AM »

Quote from: gstewart44 on July 03, 2009, 03:05:17 AM

Quote from: billy_56081 on January 06, 2009, 01:08:43 PM
8 lb rifle 500 grain bullet, 65 grains powder, 2000 fps MV, recoil velocity 22.5 fps, free recoil energy 62.89 ft/lbs

5.5 lb rifle 500 grain bullet, 65 grains powder, 2000fps MV, recoil velocity 32.73 fps, free recoil energy 91.47 ft/lbs

If you want to see what that 91 lbs of recoil feels like out of a lightweight gun, get a NEF/HR pardner shotgun and a 3 1/2 " turkey barrel. This set up weighs between 5.5 and 5.75 lbs. touch off a Federal 2 oz load of # 6 and see how you handle it. This particular combo has been commented frequently as the worst recoil that people have experienced.

I have one and even with a limbsaver pad on it I'm only good for one shot and that is during Turkey season.

And an 840 grain load at 1150 fps in a 5.5 lb gun ONLY has 75.67 ft lbs of recoil energy.

gstewart44 · « **Reply #33 on:** July 03, 2009, 10:43:49 AM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on July 03, 2009, 05:03:42 AM

Quote from: gstewart44 on July 03, 2009, 03:05:17 AM
Quote from: billy_56081 on January 06, 2009, 01:08:43 PM
8 lb rifle 500 grain bullet, 65 grains powder, 2000 fps MV, recoil velocity 22.5 fps, free recoil energy 62.89 ft/lbs

5.5 lb rifle 500 grain bullet, 65 grains powder, 2000fps MV, recoil velocity 32.73 fps, free recoil energy 91.47 ft/lbs

If you want to see what that 91 lbs of recoil feels like out of a lightweight gun, get a NEF/HR pardner shotgun and a 3 1/2 " turkey barrel. This set up weighs between 5.5 and 5.75 lbs. touch off a Federal 2 oz load of # 6 and see how you handle it. This particular combo has been commented frequently as the worst recoil that people have experienced.

I have one and even with a limbsaver pad on it I'm only good for one shot and that is during Turkey season.

And an 840 grain load at 1150 fps in a 5.5 lb gun ONLY has 75.67 ft lbs of recoil energy.

I haven't chrony'd the Federal 2oz load out of my shotgun yet....I just plugged in the data provided by Federal (1300fps)......a 5.5 lb gun with 2oz (875 gr) at 1300 fps actually yields over 100 lbs of recoil. http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

With a shorter barrel the velocity may fall off but I am shooting a 28" barrel.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #34 on:** July 03, 2009, 12:01:25 PM »

Quote from: gstewart44 on July 03, 2009, 10:43:49 AM

Quote from: billy_56081 on July 03, 2009, 05:03:42 AM
And an 840 grain load at 1150 fps in a 5.5 lb gun ONLY has 75.67 ft lbs of recoil energy.

I haven't chrony'd the Federal 2oz load out of my shotgun yet....I just plugged in the data provided by Federal (1300fps)......a 5.5 lb gun with 2oz (875 gr) at 1300 fps actually yields over 100 lbs of recoil. http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp
With a shorter barrel the velocity may fall off but I am shooting a 28" barrel.

I ran the numbers and, figuring a powder charge of 40g. a 2oz. load running 1300fps from a 5.5 pound shotgun will generate over 100 foot-pounds.

That’s why I have 9 shells left from my 10-cartridge box of turkey loads. Fired one for ‘fun’ and swore never to shoot another except at a turkey.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #35 on:** July 03, 2009, 03:25:39 PM »

I think I was joking when I put an ONLY on the 75 ft lbs of recoil. I know my Handi turkey slayet is brutal to say the least. Bruises on my shoulder do occur.

Swampman · « **Reply #36 on:** July 06, 2009, 12:26:41 AM »

The Colt Light Rifle might work as a starting point.

bluecow · « **Reply #37 on:** July 08, 2009, 04:47:43 AM »

i like my 458, but 5.5 lbs HOLY COW

jdt48653 · « **Reply #38 on:** July 22, 2009, 10:05:33 AM »

tape 3 o6`s togother and pull all triggers togother,thats what it feels like to fire a 5.5 lb 358win mag!

Drilling Man · « **Reply #39 on:** July 22, 2009, 02:28:42 PM »

Quote from: jdt48653 on July 22, 2009, 10:05:33 AM

tape 3 o6`s togother and pull all triggers togother,thats what it feels like to fire a 5.5 lb 358win mag!

I wonder what a 458 would feel like then??

DM

tykempster · « **Reply #40 on:** August 02, 2009, 05:26:43 PM »

I know of a guy with a 5.5 lb 458 Lott and a (I think) 8 lb 600 OK. He hunts with both, no brakes.

WL44 · « **Reply #41 on:** August 03, 2009, 08:59:00 PM »

Ruger No.1

Assuming you don't need magazine capacity.

SCHUETZENBOOMER · « **Reply #42 on:** December 08, 2009, 07:38:23 AM »

.458 American, std action......

Tonk · « **Reply #43 on:** December 08, 2009, 08:44:29 AM »

Sasu......To be quite frank about your post and firing a 5.5-lb .458 Winchester mag rifle, I would bet and give odds that you will change your mind about that rifle weight.

I once had a .375 H&H that after putting a different stock and shortening the barrel down to 21 inches, weighed in at a mere 7 pounds. This rifle was brutal for those who wanted to fire it with 300 grain full load bullets. NO ONE------- ever fired it twice in a row mind you!

StrawHat · « **Reply #44 on:** December 09, 2009, 12:49:07 AM »

Interesting idea!

I am fairly certain the Brits have made some heavy caliber rifles in the 6 pound weight range. Perhaps you could find one of them or contact a British smith.

I had a Siamese reworked to 45-70 and it was a fun rifle at 8 pounds. It is gone but another Siamese and stock are in my shop now. Maybe I'll see how light I can make it.

The 450 Marlin/458x2" American also sound like good ideas for you to consider.

Daman · « **Reply #45 on:** March 02, 2010, 12:26:53 PM »

Quote from: sasu on January 05, 2009, 10:36:00 PM

Quote from: Rangr44 on January 05, 2009, 12:17:23 PM
Have you actually shot a .458 Win Mag rifle ?
Remington 600 in .350 Rem Mag
I have a 458 Lott rifle that weights about 8 lbs. I have to concentrate when shooting it, but there are no after effects, i.e. pain. This gave the idea of making such a gun lighter.

I also have a Remington Model Seven in 350 Rem Mag and do not consider its recoil worth a mention. I also shoot a 375 Ruger Alaskan which is a soft shooter, but then it weighs a full 8 lbs with its huge Hogue stock. On the handgun side I enjoy my 4.75" Freedom Arms 500 Wyoming Express, 4" aluminum S&W 329PD 44 Magnum, 3" S&W Model 29 44 Magnum, Ruger Super Redhawk 454 Casull. I seem to be a recoil junkie of sorts. The only gun where recoil has stumped me is a Winchester 1300 Defender shotgun with magnum ammo - the plastic stock hits my cheek bone so hard it sends an electric jolt of pain across my head, must be the stock geometry or the way I hold the gun.

I realise making a 458 WM rifle lighter makes it more difficult to shoot, but somehow I cannot believe that lightening it from 8 lbs to 6 lbs would make the rifle break my collar bone or do some other damage to my body. Those two pounds cannot be the difference between safety and danger. Or am I missing something?

Winchester 1300 3 inch magnum #5's is the most brutal thing I have ever pulled the trigger on. It was the synthetic stock. I love the old NWTF Laminated edition. It isn't too bad cause of the weight.

wallynut · « **Reply #46 on:** March 04, 2010, 03:21:43 AM »

First off, you can do it, but I think you will spend MUCH more then you want, and in the end your not likely to shoot it. Going light costs more money even when you are looking at small calibers. I've never shot the 458 Lott, but was under the impression that it "pushed" more then the 458win mag "hit". I had a 458 win mag in a Ruger number one that I just couldn't get past the recoil, 375 H&H wasn't bad to me, but I think the rifle (CZ550) just fit me better. And that may be just it, how it fits you, that makes it tolerable. I just have my doubts about that weight of rifle for that caliber, there's a reason most all African game animal rifles are 8-10 lbs. Good luck on your choice.

243wright · « **Reply #47 on:** March 31, 2010, 04:53:39 PM »

You could probably get close to 6 pounds in an encore if you chopped the barrel and went with the lightest stock you could find. Thats without a scope. But really in a gun that would kick like that youd probably end up wearing your scope anyway. Put a peep sight on it and you would be more than accurate enough at the ranges most people would use it.

crash87 · « **Reply #48 on:** April 04, 2010, 04:58:27 AM »

Quote from: SingleShotShorty on January 23, 2009, 07:53:16 AM

I can only say one thing forget the rifle build and get back on your meds because you must be mentaly ill

come on now Shorty

sasu, Hope you find what you are looking for. A question, When? it is done, is your 1st shot going to be standing or hunkered down, sitting, with the forearm of your dream rifle, nestled down peacfully on the sand bags? A request?, what ever you decide, could you please video your 1st shot and post it here? I think it would be entertaining.

Good Luck, (and i mean that) CRASH87

Hooker · « **Reply #49 on:** April 05, 2010, 05:46:54 PM »

Crash your sadistic

I once had the pleasure of shooting my uncle's custom 6# 8mm Remington mag.
Yeah he's sadistic also.

I was 12yrs old and it took a lot of 22lr shooting to cure the flinch.
In any case a five and half pound 458 win mag might be sweet heart to carry and it will keep your sinuses clear but it wont improve your shooting skills.

Pat

Mikey · « **Reply #50 on:** April 06, 2010, 01:57:10 AM »

Guys: I want to see the X-ray of his shoulder after he touches one off, and then I want him to add the cost of the emergency room visit and both the hospital and surgical costs to the cost of the rifle to see how much it cost him to shatter his shoulder socket.

Hank08: back in the mid-sixties I encountered four idjits like that, you know, the kind who say - 'if you can see'm from here you can knock'm down with this....' It took me most of two days to track their wounded game and I thought to myself - I shoulda hit that guy with a rock. Maybe you can convice him to mount the stock to his forehead when he fires so he can get the straightest shot possible.........

huntducks · « **Reply #51 on:** April 06, 2010, 08:18:25 AM »

The interNUT is a great place trouble is you never know who or what your talking too either a BS, dreamer or someone who is serious.

Curt Dawson · « **Reply #52 on:** April 10, 2010, 05:48:47 AM »

Back in the mid 60's in a Sports Afield hunting annual there was an article about a guy who had bulit a 6lbs. 458 Win. mag. that he even used to shoot jack rabbits. I remember reading a quote that if he hit in front of the rabbit the back flash of earth would kill them. He was using the factory 510gr. soft points.

wallynut · « **Reply #53 on:** April 13, 2010, 12:41:44 AM »

I think it's safe to say that this posting is done, looking at the original starting date and lack of response from the original poster, either he gave up the idea or got hurt shooting such a rifle and didn't want to validate everyones opinion on this subject.

JeffG · « **Reply #54 on:** April 13, 2010, 02:23:43 PM »

Quote

458, but 5.5lbs

I would want a scope base that weighed 2 lbs, a scope that weighed 2, and I would put another pound of lead in the buttstock.

hillbill · « **Reply #55 on:** April 13, 2010, 05:13:24 PM »

did yu ever think sasu is a little tuffer than us? if i was 6'6" 240lbs of muscle id prob shoot a 5 lb 458 like it was a 22 lf.just cuz yu cant do it dont mean he cant?

Mikey · « **Reply #56 on:** April 14, 2010, 01:38:22 AM »

I have to agree with wallynut's last post. This post is dead. The original poster, sasu, has not posted a response in over 15 months and within a few days of his original post changed his criteria a bit. Hillbill may be right and sasu may be a bit tougher than the rest of us but I think we can put this one to bed.