Author Topic: 5.5 lbs 458 Win Mag - what base rifle to use? (Read 6510 times)

sasu · « **on:** January 03, 2009, 08:48:34 AM »

I am currently dreaming of a 5.5-6.0 lbs bolt action rifle in 458 Win Mag, with a synthetic stock and lightweight 20" barrel.

What rifle or action would be the best starting point?

I would like the rifle to be economical, so assembling it from readily available commercial components would be nice. No custom stocks or actions.

Is it doable within that weight limit?

Thanks for all input.

Graybeard · « **Reply #1 on:** January 03, 2009, 11:02:40 AM »

I think it rather doubtful given your criteria. It could likely be done by NULA using one of their super light weight actions and a really light stock. But to take any standard weight action it's gonna be really tough. You must have a long action not a short action to feed the round. Since the bore is .458" you can't really use a particularly thin barrel on it either.

Dunno I think you are asking a lot for a low cost rifle and sure hope you're prepared to pull the trigger on it cuz I sure wouldn't even on a bet.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 03, 2009, 11:07:06 AM »

Ouch! It's your shoulder. ULA is probably tour best option.

BS · « **Reply #3 on:** January 03, 2009, 12:12:45 PM »

7.5#s.............. without breaking the bank.

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #4 on:** January 03, 2009, 12:14:12 PM »

I think you could accomplish the end result cheaper by just going down town and picking a bar fight.

Tunaman · « **Reply #5 on:** January 03, 2009, 01:31:58 PM »

Quote from: smokinjoe5150 on January 03, 2009, 12:14:12 PM

I think you could accomplish the end result cheaper by just going down town and picking a bar fight.

1+ Ouch!

trotterlg · « **Reply #6 on:** January 03, 2009, 06:50:10 PM »

You may get there, you will have iron sights, probably a short carbon wrapped barrel, a skeletonized stock, fluted bolt and milled away a lot of the receiver aft of the locking lugs. It is probably obtainable but only by extrordnary means. It probablly would not be much fun to sight in. Larry

sasu · « **Reply #7 on:** January 03, 2009, 09:26:08 PM »

It does seem that 5.5 lbs is unrealistic. I will have to rephrase the goal:

Which is the most efficient way to build a super lightweight 458 Win Mag bolt action using off-the-shelf components?

Specifically: which action is the lightest, what kind of lightweight stocks would be available for it, can the stock take the recoil without modification?

(I have a decent back up plan in case this project will not be realised: Remington Custom Shop Model Seven KS 350 Rem Mag at about 5.8 lbs. Plenty of power for most Northern Hemisphere hunting. Browning Titanium in 325 WSM would fill the need, too.)

BS · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2009, 03:19:53 AM »

Quote from: sasu on January 03, 2009, 09:26:08 PM

It does seem that 5.5 lbs is unrealistic. I will have to rephrase the goal:

Which is the most efficient way to build a super lightweight 458 Win Mag bolt action using off-the-shelf components?

Specifically: which action is the lightest, what kind of lightweight stocks would be available for it, can the stock take the recoil without modification?

(I have a decent back up plan in case this project will not be realised: Remington Custom Shop Model Seven KS 350 Rem Mag at about 5.8 lbs. Plenty of power for most Northern Hemisphere hunting. Browning Titanium in 325 WSM would fill the need, too.)

The model 7, 350 action is made for 2.8ish" length...[use to be]...............longer action, more weight

Now, a WSM in .416 or .458 would be a real THUMPER

yorketransport · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2009, 05:05:58 PM »

I think that you will run into problems finding a light weight stock that is strong enough. I wanted to trim the weight down on my Ruger Hawkeye Alaskan, and the stock seemed like the best starting point. In order to get something strong enough, it was going to cost more than half the price of the rifle. I would agree with Graybeard on the NULA route. Another option would be these guys. www.BijouCreek.com They make some pretty light rifles too.

However you do it, I don't know if it can be done both inexpensively and safely.

Andrew

Hank08 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 05, 2009, 06:36:12 AM »

Sasu, It would be easy enough to do but not cheap and you probably don't want to spend a lot of money on a gun your only going to shoot once. In gun building lite means expensive. I built my .458 cheap, Mauser 98 action, A&B barrel, Ramline stock.
It weights 8 lbs. heavy for some guns but way too light for a .458. You could save 1 to 1/4 lbs. using a kevlar stock and a few oz. by cutting the barrel to 20" but kevlar is expensive. By doing all the work myself this one cost me about $250. Only a very experienced shooter should or would shoot an 8 lb. .458. a 5.5 lb. .458 could break your shoulder, detach your retina. I shoot a lot of heavy calibers but I wouldn't shoot a 5.5 lb one.
H08

Rangr44 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05, 2009, 12:17:23 PM »

Have you actually shot a .458 Win Mag rifle ?

If you haven't, I would respectfully suggest you do so - a bareback one (w/o scope, etc) - to get a "feel" for it.

You may find your dream turning into a nightmare.

One of the lighter factory magnum rifle experiments was the laminated-stock, Remington 600 in .350 Rem Mag (which has no where near the recoil of a .458) that was first upgraded to the heavier Model 660, then discontinued until re-introduced as the Model 673.
It kicked the snot out of just about everyone who tried one - leaving only the determined and guides who needed bear protection to actually keep theirs.

Inexpensive/light/synthetic does not work with hard recoiling cartridges, so be prepared to spend major $$$ on a top-quality synthetic stock, for starters.

.

sasu · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2009, 10:36:00 PM »

Quote from: Rangr44 on January 05, 2009, 12:17:23 PM

Have you actually shot a .458 Win Mag rifle ?
Remington 600 in .350 Rem Mag

I have a 458 Lott rifle that weights about 8 lbs. I have to concentrate when shooting it, but there are no after effects, i.e. pain. This gave the idea of making such a gun lighter.

I also have a Remington Model Seven in 350 Rem Mag and do not consider its recoil worth a mention. I also shoot a 375 Ruger Alaskan which is a soft shooter, but then it weighs a full 8 lbs with its huge Hogue stock. On the handgun side I enjoy my 4.75" Freedom Arms 500 Wyoming Express, 4" aluminum S&W 329PD 44 Magnum, 3" S&W Model 29 44 Magnum, Ruger Super Redhawk 454 Casull. I seem to be a recoil junkie of sorts. The only gun where recoil has stumped me is a Winchester 1300 Defender shotgun with magnum ammo - the plastic stock hits my cheek bone so hard it sends an electric jolt of pain across my head, must be the stock geometry or the way I hold the gun.

I realise making a 458 WM rifle lighter makes it more difficult to shoot, but somehow I cannot believe that lightening it from 8 lbs to 6 lbs would make the rifle break my collar bone or do some other damage to my body. Those two pounds cannot be the difference between safety and danger. Or am I missing something?

billy_56081 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 06, 2009, 01:08:43 PM »

8 lb rifle 500 grain bullet, 65 grains powder, 2000 fps MV, recoil velocity 22.5 fps, free recoil energy 62.89 ft/lbs

5.5 lb rifle 500 grain bullet, 65 grains powder, 2000fps MV, recoil velocity 32.73 fps, free recoil energy 91.47 ft/lbs

Casull · « **Reply #14 on:** January 06, 2009, 02:54:51 PM »

Quote

you probably don't want to spend a lot of money on a gun your only going to shoot once.

Now, that is a great line.

curtism1234 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 07, 2009, 12:54:19 PM »

I think if you turn the clock ahead 5 years from now, we might be seeing a 458ruger cartridge which you might be able to live with.

Economically speaking, you'd be looking at the pushfed Howa 1500 as your cheapest option (again looking ahead in 5 years because in 2009 the 375ruger is part of their line). With a synthetic stock you're looking at probably 7 pounds without a scope.

Other than that, you're looking at a quite a bit of money.

no guns here · « **Reply #16 on:** January 16, 2009, 07:42:50 AM »

My Steyr runs about 7.5 lbs for a .376 Steyr chambering. That is more than lite enough for me... in fact I added a kilo of lead to the butt just to soak up recoil. I probably wouldn't worry about it if I went to Africa but I have no interest in shooting it from a seated bench position ever again without the extra weight.

Spend the money on a gym membership and then you'll be able to carry an appropriately weighted rifle for the cartridge...

Not to bust on you but sometimes you just gotta say "hmmmm, do I REALLY want to do this?" There's a reason big cartridges normally go into bigger, heavier rifles. Over the years, it has been determined that big cartridges in lite rifles hurt most shooters too much and that prevents adequate practice. Lite weight rifles also take longer to get back on target after the muzzle points up at 90 degrees.

I read somewhere about a guy that had a carbon wrapped barrel on a 10lb .50 BMG bolt gun. I wonder how many times he really shot that thing...

ngh

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #17 on:** January 16, 2009, 12:14:51 PM »

Any standard action rifle that has a belted mag to it will work.
The 458 is just a strait necked 338 Win Mag or 7mm Rem Mag ( I know the history is off but it gets the point across)
Why in the world would you want one that light?
A few years I built a 45-70 on a siamese action. A year later they came out with 450 Marlin. The case belt is a little thicker so you don't get a 458 WM into a Marlin action and have the pin hit the primer. Later you will get to see how many holes are in the celing tiles of the local hospital.
Same reason you do NOT want to use anything other than a modern action in good condition for your idea.
I thought about a Mauser 98 action in 450 Marlin with an 18 to 20" barrel but it will do exactly what the 45-70 will do, so I scraped the program.
The 450 Marlin is loaded to the bottom end of 458 Win Mag and is more than you need as a brush rifle or camp cannon. Shootin it a lot will get you to spend more time with your dentist replacing your fillings. Especally in the under 6 pound class. Heck you will get to know the chiropractor as well.
I still am not sure you can get to the 6 pound limit with a 458 due to the reinforcing needed in the stock so it won't rip out the mounts and again you get to be an expert on celing tiles.
I am guessing you are looking for a back packing or fishing bear rifle or you have Red water buffalo on your farm and want it as protection if needed.
If bears are your concern- 12 ga shot gun may get to the 5.5 pound range and slugs are at the bottom end of the power of a 458 at the tube but again do not want to shoot the slug out of such a light gun.

SingleShotShorty · « **Reply #18 on:** January 23, 2009, 07:53:16 AM »

I can only say one thing forget the rifle build and get back on your meds because you must be mentaly ill

skyhigh_seller · « **Reply #19 on:** January 26, 2009, 09:50:38 AM »

Spend ~$40 and buy the A-Square reloading manual. After reading about large-game large-cal guns you will realize how foolish your question is.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #20 on:** January 26, 2009, 10:13:47 AM »

Does it have to be a 458 Winchester? I think BS was onto something. How about a Kimber Kevlar stocked Montana, in one of the WSM calibers, necked up to .416? Re-barreled with a 21 inch, light weight barrel, with an effective muzzle break. Without looking at it to hard, it seems it might be a good package.

Larry

Judson · « **Reply #21 on:** January 26, 2009, 10:52:16 AM »

Think about a short mag necked to .458. I have built four the lightest is a Ruger #1 scope and all it weighs 7.8 pounds. It does have a brake on it so it is not bad to shoot. 300 grain bullets are traveling at 2650 FPS out of 21.5" of effective barrel length.

kiddekop · « **Reply #22 on:** January 26, 2009, 02:15:26 PM »

Maybe this will help http://www.newultralight.com/HTML/custom-rifles.html I handled a couple of these rifles at the Las Vegas SHOT show last year they're really light weight! here's another but it's not light http://www.mccannindustries.com but it comes in 458mag or 338mag !

kiddekop · « **Reply #23 on:** January 26, 2009, 04:01:36 PM »

Quote from: Rangr44 on January 05, 2009, 12:17:23 PM

Have you actually shot a .458 Win Mag rifle ?

If you haven't, I would respectfully suggest you do so - a bareback one (w/o scope, etc) - to get a "feel" for it.

You may find your dream turning into a nightmare.

One of the lighter factory magnum rifle experiments was the laminated-stock, Remington 600 in .350 Rem Mag (which has no where near the recoil of a .458) that was first upgraded to the heavier Model 660, then discontinued until re-introduced as the Model 673.
It kicked the snot out of just about everyone who tried one - leaving only the determined and guides who needed bear protection to actually keep theirs.

Inexpensive/light/synthetic does not work with hard recoiling cartridges, so be prepared to spend major $$$ on a top-quality synthetic stock, for starters.

.

a friend of mine has a 350 rem mag 600 with the rib which made it difficult to mount a scope and get proper eye relief so every time he fired it he received a circular cut around his eye and nose,he told me when he shot an elk with it it flopped over

ohiosam · « **Reply #24 on:** February 16, 2009, 04:29:38 AM »

My T/C Encore with the 20" turkey barrel weighs 6lbs. Loaded with 1 5/8 oz @ 1200+ fps is literally brutal. Added a limbsaver pad and it became tolerable (but I consider my self pretty recoil tolerant).

I've never shot a 458 but IIRC it shoots 500gr ( little over 1 oz) at something like 2200+ FPS. I don't think I would want to shoot it in a rifle under 8 lbs.

garand101 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 30, 2009, 03:38:07 PM »

I once saw a Ruger #3 45/70 that had been rechambered to .460 Weatherby. No other changes had been made to it, so it still had the steel (aluminum?) buttplate. Notice I said saw, not shot. I think that would probably made your weight.

Hank08 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 01, 2009, 05:43:31 AM »

.460 wea. in a #3 that hurts me to think about it and that #3 would still be 6lb. + and do you know if anyone ever shot it? The average person can't stand the recoil of a 45/70 in a #3. I'm used to heavy recoil and my 8 lb. .458 is brutal with max loads course it can be loaded down to whatever level one wants.
H08

moxgrove · « **Reply #27 on:** July 01, 2009, 06:38:13 AM »

If you want to know what shooting a 5.5 pound 458 would feel like, take the recoil pad off your 3.5 in. turkey/goose gun with a full load and stand with your back/ shoulder against a wall or tree and let "er rip. You can also lay flat on your back and fire to get a similar feeling. That rifle is gonna recoil faster than your shoulder can"give" . The feeling should very close. Good Luck!

garand101 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 01, 2009, 04:05:25 PM »

I don't know if that .460 No. 3 was ever shot or not. I do know that I wouldn't shoot it. The worst thing I ever shot was an extremely light H&R single shot 3 1/2" 12 gauge with 3 1/2 inch turkey loads. I shot it once, and then I figured that I must have held it wrong or something, so I shot it again. That was enough for me. I had a very large bruise for weeks. I have and shoot large caliber rifles to include a decent weight .458 Whitworth, but I can't even imagine what a 5.5lb .458 would be like.

Quote from: Hank08 on July 01, 2009, 05:43:31 AM

.460 wea. in a #3 that hurts me to think about it and that #3 would still be 6lb. + and do you know if anyone ever shot it? The average person can't stand the recoil of a 45/70 in a #3. I'm used to heavy recoil and my 8 lb. .458 is brutal with max loads course it can be loaded down to whatever level one wants.
H08

Mikey · « **Reply #29 on:** July 02, 2009, 01:00:33 AM »

Fellas: I've been following this thread for 6 months now and ya'll don't quite understand do ya. It's OK, I'll make it easy on ya. It goes like this:::::

SASU: Go for it man but understand that a 5.5 lb 458 will most likely separate your shoulder from the remainder of your huntin' activities for the rest of your life, but the choice is up to you. Let us know when you get out of the hospital.........................