45-90? 100? 110? 120? What to do, what to do...

[AtlLaw]

what do you think of my idea I mentioned a couple of replies up about doing one in a 50-140 express?

I can't remember if I ever said so Frank, but that would be AWESOME!!!     But you'd have to rebore/rerifle wouldn't you?

Well ya heard everybody, just pick out the positive posts and do em all

Never considered that...    Naw, that would be as silly as havin' a whole bunch of wimmin type friend-girls, each one with a one larger cup size then the other one... 

I am kind of partial to the old police stand by of years gone by.
Make mine a pair of 38s!

Actually, I've always been most fond of ...uh, "smaller calibers" so to speak.  "You know, anything more then a champagne glass full is vulgar waste" kind of attitude.     

Guess we better stick to the subject before someone takes offence and turns us in.

Ya LT!  Bunch of durn pre-verts around here...     I'll bet the only honest one is ol' dpe.ahoy... AKA Shorty   

Don't think I'd ever do a 50-140.  Might start to feel inferior when I went to go P.    DP

Good job on getting some dinner. I didn't see a single deer this weekend that wasn't in somebodys front yard.

We was covered up with 'em.  Could have shot my whole year's meat supply this weekend, but held off a couple of days looking for big enough antlers.  Saw him opening morning... don't ask...    Anyway I got my Thanksgiving and Christmas hams, a couple of standing rib roasts and my stew meat, now for my sausage, Bambi burger and cubed Bambi!     (On topic addition)  Of course one to be taken with my new BC barrel!  certainly in 45/70 and maybe in 45/120!   

[dpe.ahoy]

Shorty?   HONEST???     Why, I otta start some Lawyer jokes.   Good hunting to ya, AtlLaw.  DP

[LONGTOM]

what do you think of my idea I mentioned a couple of replies up about doing one in a 50-140 express?

I can't remember if I ever said so Frank, but that would be AWESOME!!!     But you'd have to rebore/rerifle wouldn't you?

Yes it would and I'm not much on spending $300.00 or more on a $1??.00 barrel but for a hole that big and long I might consider it.   

As to QUICKs comment on the price of brass, not to worry.
Any thing that would see the size of the opening in the end of the barrel would either fall dead from the scare factor or be so far away on a run before I could even get the sights on him that I wouldn't even have to buy any brass! 

[Smokin Joe]

Any thing that would see the size of the opening in the end of the barrel would either fall dead from the scare factor

Nice thing is, though, is that you can crawl right in there with a belt sander and take care of any leading or fouling problems.

 

[tykempster]

GOOD CHOICE ON THAT 45-120!  Load 'er hot and hold on.  You really shouldn't have as much recoil as I make out it to be unless you are like me and the size of a full grown stick figure.  That said, don't scope it before you shoot it unless you are prepared for plastic surgery.

[AtlLaw]

AH! Tyke me boy!     I was wondering where you been!  I was looking forward to you posting!  It's not often a lad like you gets the welcomed opportunity to give practical advice to an old man three time... uh, TWICE his age!   

Load 'er hot and hold on.

  Hey now!  Not that kind of advice!

That said, don't scope it before you shoot it unless you are prepared for plastic surgery.

Oh, the rifle... nevermind...  Hummmm, maybe a single-shot, 32 inch barreled Scout rifle.      Other then a scope, I'm going to have to give the sight question some thought.  I was thinking one of them looong brass tubed scopes would look really cool, but I don't know about irons...   

I do know I'm going to mount a Leupold Vari-X III 1.5-5 on it when I get home tonight.  Also going to load up some 300 gr. FN's ahead of 61 gr of Varget.  That load gives me 100 yard clover leafs (well, occasionally anyway) at 1800 fps +/- outta a 22 inch barrel.  It'll be fun to see what it does from a 32 incher!

Did you send your barrel out to be reamed like Tim?  I'm kinda hesitant to do it myself if there's any chance I could ruin the chamber...

[AtlLaw]

45-120!! Norma 45-120 Brass $62.99 per 50! Get it while it's cheap!! 

Just went to order some Tim... they don't list it... sold out I guess...    I'm gonna look around...

[MSP Ret]

Hi buddy, If you get a chance I suggest try my favorite load in your 45-70. It consists of a 350 grain Hornady half jacket RNFP ahead of 28.0 grains of 2400. It does cloverleafs for me at 100 yards out of my 22” barreled H&R 45-70, if I do my part of course. I have not tried it out of my Buff Classic yet but will have to some day…
Keep up the great posts buddy, I really enjoy reading them, you are a true wordsmith and must be enjoyable to watch in court ….<><....

[Smokin Joe]

Just went to order some Tim... they don't list it... sold out I guess...

Buffalo Arms has 'em:

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,6589.html

[tykempster]

Atllaw, I reamed my own chamber.  I just put the barrel in a vice and kept it soaked with cutting oil.  Just turn the reamer until you just start to touch the slot where the rim goes (I can't think!) so you don't mess up headspace.  My Norma brass is a little bit thicker though, the first couple times you fire it is hard to chamber because the rim seems to be beveled and thicker in the middle, but after you open and close the action 10 or 20 times on each piece of brass it is a good snug fit without being hard to shut the action.  Any other questions just ask...

IMR 4320 is definetly the powder of choice as far as shooting all different weights of bullets from the 45-120 at increased pressures.  Remember to use a filler though, my fired brass holds almost 130 grains powder!

[quickdtoo]

45-120!! Norma 45-120 Brass $62.99 per 50! Get it while it's cheap!! 

Just went to order some Tim... they don't list it... sold out I guess...    I'm gonna look around...

They still have it for $62.99 per 50, that's a LOT cheaper than $2.20 each at BA, I posted the direct link in the quote above, click Norma 45-120 Brass $62.99 per 50! Get it while it's cheap!!, scroll down to 45 Basic. 

Tim

[AtlLaw]

They still have it for $62.99 per 50,

Got it, that's what I get for not searching in depth.   

How many do y'all think I should get?  Remembering of course that this will not be an everyday plinker!   

[AtlLaw]

I reamed my own chamber.

Well, I may give it a shot then.  I just reamed out the throats on my Taurus 44 mag pistol and was surprised how easy the steel cut!     I'll give those good, GB sponsoring reamer folk a call!

IMR 4320 is definitely the powder of choice as far as shooting all different weights of bullets from the 45-120 at increased pressures.  Remember to use a filler though, my fired brass holds almost 130 grains powder!

130 gr.!!!     Durn!  I bet I'd run out of shoulder long before I ran out of case capacity with anything I put in it!     This might just have to be my one and only BPCR (I doubt if I'll need a drop tube) and fire occasional smokeless just for grins!   

[quickdtoo]

Depends on how many you give away when folks see you shooting them at the range and want to buy one!! I started with 140, 100 direct from Mast(Bell) and 40 more from Track of the Wolf, just added 50 more from Cabelas, I think I have 120 of the original 140 left. Jamison was supposed to be offering them, but so far that hasn't happened, grafs did list it as out of stock, but no longer does.

Tim

[AtlLaw]

If you get a chance I suggest try my favorite load in your 45-70. It consists of a 350 grain Hornady half jacket RNFP ahead of 28.0 grains of 2400.

Heck I been waiting for you to send me some so I don't have to buy more components!     I've got the Hornady's on my supplier's "Wish List" but haven't ordered it yet since my 45/70 wasn't due to come up in my rifle rotation for another couple of years.     I checked my reloading records and found that the last time I did any range work with it was in '02!  Used it to kill a deer that December and put it up!     Of course now that L-T has forced this barrel on me, well, you know how it is!  You gonna play with what you got the hots for rite then!     I'm sure I'll have to try those 350's before I use up my supply of 300's and 405's.     Maybe at 2300 -2500 fps!   

Keep up the great posts buddy,

I try... Heaven knows I try...    If I could type faster I could really bore y'all!

... must be enjoyable to watch in court

Well thanks again Andy     Most Judges and the people in the Court Room often seem to enjoy my antics.  I don't think I can say the same for the defense bar though...   

[Smokin Joe]

Tim, the Norma 45 Basic brass is 2.88" in length.

[quickdtoo]

Nope, that stuff is head stamped 45-120, it's 3¼" long. See the note after adding it to your cart. I even got a bonus 2 extra pieces in my bag!! 

Tim

Item Notes: The headstamp will read 45-120 as this straight-walled brass is full length 45 Basic. The case can trimmed for use as 45-110, 45-90 or 45-70.

[MSP Ret]

"I don't think I can say the same for the defense bar though... " 

we all know those attorneys on the "dark side" don't have a good sense of humor....<><....

[Smokin Joe]

Nope, that stuff is head stamped 45-120, it's 3¼" long

Midway goofed up, then. Their tech description says

"Technical Information

# Boxer primers. Brass measures approximately 2.88" and should work for any cartridge based on the 45-100, 45-70 case. Case is too short for 45-120 cartridges "

Oh well   

[tykempster]

I've seen two lengths for 45 Basic, long and 45-120 long. 

Atllaw, try the Remington 405s around 2500 fps, just shot some water filled pumpkins and after 5 feet of penetration the bullet shed it's jacket but still made a heck of a mushroom.  Will be a good deer bullet as far as I can shoot offhand...you couldn't pay me to shoot the gun any other way!

[LONGTOM]

AtlLaw:
Just went to the link that Tim gave and this is what came up when you view your cart.
This is for 100 rounds.

Norma Unprimed Rifle Brass   Item number: IJ-213619
CALIBER/GAUGE: .45 BASIC/50
This item is in stock.
   2  Reg: $194.98
Sale:
$125.98  remove   

Item Notes: The headstamp will read 45-120 as this straight-walled brass is full length 45 Basic. The case can trimmed for use as 45-110, 45-90 or 45-70.


LONGTOM

[tykempster]

I don't know why you need so much brass? 

My first 20 is going strong...pressure isn't going to effect it much, and primer pockets are tight as ever, as expected.

[petemi]

Ty, you're all right, I don't care what your mama says about you.  If you guys keep chattering, you're going to force me into a state of gross stupidity and major self abuse!

[LONGTOM]

"I don't know why you need so much brass?"

I don't!!!   1/2 for me and 1/2 for my buddy!!!
The price is good and I may have other uses for it as well.
Like my two WINCHESTERs, model 1886 in 45-90 and my custom model 1885 HIGH WALL THICK WALL in 45-125 express.
Or someday maybe a SHARPS?


LONGTOM 

[AtlLaw]

you're going to force me into a state of gross stupidity and major self abuse!

And you'll go blind!   

[AtlLaw]

My first 20 is going strong...pressure isn't going to effect it much, and primer pockets are tight as ever, as expected.

Okay, I guess a hundred ought to last whatever few years I got left to abuse myself!   

[AtlLaw]

Tim, one question.  My current 45/70 receiver, the one this barrel locks up on so nice, was made in '88... Is it as strong as the newer ones?

[quickdtoo]

No, it's not, H&R won't fit any of the * marked high pressure chambered barrels to it, according to Gordon, the frames got better heat treating sometime in the mid 90's, but he didn't couldn't tell me when. That said, it will work fine for any published 45-120 load, likely much better than your body will!!    The warmest load I know of is Hodgdon data of 60gr H4895 under a 500gr cast bullet for ~1800fps from a 24" barrel, that's at 28.5kcup, about the same as top trapdoor loads in the 45-70.

Tim

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

[LONGTOM]

Has anyone ever loaded the 300gr JHP in a 45-120?
If so how did it work?
It seams that all the talk is about heavier cast bullets.
I was thinking more on the lines of a super 45-70.
If it would shoot, it should have quite a bit flatter trajectory.
I am not really looking for that much extra power just going more for the longer ranges with out all the hold over.
Any comments Tim?


LONGTOM

[quickdtoo]

Just for fun, I ran the Barnes 300gr TSX-FB thru QuickLoad, a charge of H335 at 80% load density should get you just over 2700fps at 40kpsi, here's what the .45 Super Longtom looks like on paper. These are just predictions, these loads would require a lot of range time to work them up, QL isn't as predictable with straight walled cases as it is with bottlenecked cases, these bullets at $1 each would be very costly to work with. Also, due to the large volume of the 45-120 case, powders can be position sensitive when working with lower load densities, a filler would more than likely be necessary and that adds another variable to the mix. Powders like 5744 that aren't position sensitive in my experience and may work better, but won't yield the velocity of the two powders I listed as they are ideal for the barrel length with a burn rate over 99%. 5744 at 71% load density would yield 2700fps at 43kpsi.


Trajectory for Custom .458 300gr Barnes TSX-FB at 2700 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.23   0.23   0.23   0.23   0.23
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2700   2700   2700   2700
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2700.0   4855.3   3.60   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
25   2602.4   4510.6   3.47   -0.15   0.45   0.0   0.028294179
50   2506.9   4185.7   3.34   -0.63   2.08   0.0   0.057657584
75   2413.3   3879.1   3.21   -1.45   3.37   0.0   0.088149447
100   2321.8   3590.3   3.09   -2.64   4.28   0.0   0.119833826
125   2232.2   3318.6   2.97   -4.23   4.79   0.0   0.152778728
150   2144.5   3062.9   2.86   -6.26   4.86   0.0   0.187058469
175   2058.8   2823.0   2.74   -8.77   4.46   0.0   0.222752857
200   1975.1   2598.2   2.63   -11.79   3.55   0.0   0.259946464
225   1893.6   2388.1   2.52   -15.36   2.08   0.0   0.298729062
250   1814.2   2192.1   2.42   -19.54   0.0   0.0   0.339195567
275   1737.2   2009.9   2.31   -24.38   -2.74   0.0   0.381444630
300   1662.7   1841.3   2.21   -29.94   -6.19   0.0   0.425576870
325   1591.0   1685.8   2.12   -36.29   -10.44   0.0   0.471693338
350   1522.1   1543.1   2.03   -43.49   -15.54   0.0   0.519894281
375   1456.4   1412.7   1.94   -51.64   -21.58   0.0   0.570274684
400   1394.0   1294.3   1.86   -60.81   -28.64   0.0   0.622920074


If you run it up to 50kpsi, H322 at 92% load density might get you just short of 2900fps!!

Trajectory for Custom .458 300gr Barnes TSX-FB at 2900 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.23   0.23   0.23   0.23   0.23
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2700   2700   2700   2700
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2900.0   5601.2   3.86   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
25   2797.9   5213.7   3.73   -0.13   0.2   0.0   0.026330286
50   2698.1   4848.4   3.59   -0.54   1.62   0.0   0.053627914
75   2600.5   4504.2   3.46   -1.25   2.74   0.0   0.081942216
100   2505.1   4179.6   3.34   -2.28   3.54   0.0   0.111326817
125   2411.6   3873.3   3.21   -3.66   3.99   0.0   0.141841088
150   2320.0   3584.9   3.09   -5.41   4.07   0.0   0.173549148
175   2230.5   3313.5   2.97   -7.56   3.74   0.0   0.206519117
200   2142.8   3058.2   2.85   -10.15   2.98   0.0   0.240825433
225   2057.1   2818.5   2.74   -13.21   1.75   0.0   0.276548004
250   1973.5   2594.0   2.63   -16.79   0.0   0.0   0.313771502
275   1892.0   2384.1   2.52   -20.92   -2.31   0.0   0.352585808
300   1812.7   2188.4   2.41   -25.67   -5.22   0.0   0.393085934
325   1735.7   2006.6   2.31   -31.07   -8.79   0.0   0.435370591
350   1661.3   1838.2   2.21   -37.19   -13.09   0.0   0.479540419
375   1589.6   1682.9   2.12   -44.11   -18.17   0.0   0.525696478
400   1520.8   1540.4   2.03   -51.88   -24.12   0.0   0.573938976