Rem 700 opinion

[shb]

Hello gun nuts, after spending a couple of years working in a custom rifle shop in phoenix I noticed that all of the big money custom actions were basically the same as a rem 700.  In fact you couldln't really tell the difference from 10 or 15ft away. Now I grew up a ruger man, but after bedding and inletting a couple dozen rems I have pretty much changed my mind.  I bought a rem mod 7 in .223 for  coyotes and it shot right at 1.5 inches out of the box. After bedding and free floating it will shoot .5 all day long, with its favorite ammo. My best friend wanted a custom rifle for deer and hogs so we bought a model 7 in .308 and sent it to the place I worked to get a heavier barrel installed and a muzzle brake. We then bedded and free floated it in a big heavy McMillan target type stock ( I cant remember the model name) . We didn't do anything fancier than that to it and not only will it shoot 1/2 inch groups, it will do it with almost any ammo we try, and most of them don't change point of impact enough to even fuss with.  So as you can guess I'm a big fan of rem actions.

has anyone else noticed how much the the big name benchrest actions resemble a rem or do I need more experience.

[jhm]

SHB :  No you are correct and with that said it should put to rest all the ford and chevrolet discussions that are about to start rolling in   JIM

[Zachary]

shb,

Your sentiments have been followed by many gunsmiths and shooters for years.  Ask any competent gunsmith and he will tell you that the 700 action is their prefered action to work with.  Why?  From what I have been told it's because it is the strongest and simplest action.

Granted, as you stated, factory Remington rifles leave much to be desired.  However, if you modify the rifle a bit by 1) replacing the cheap injected molded plastic stock with a McMillan, HS Precision, or other high quality stock, 2) glass bedding the action and free floating the barrel, 3) do a trigger job with a crisp, creep-free pull of 3 lbs or less, 4) re-crown the barrel, and 5) possibly blue-print the action, then you will essentially have a consistently very accurate rifle.  (Yes, I know, the work that I just mentioned costs several hundred dollars - but , in my opinion, it's worth it.)

Zachary

[sport240]

Just my opinion here from a "out of the box" kinda guy....

There are a lot of people out there who buy a rifle, only to take it all apart and do everything you can to it under the sun...I'm not one of those guys.  I like things that come from the factory and work like a charm, the way they were supposed to.  Now that is easier said than done in the firearms department.  With so many companies out there held by "holding's" and off-shore share-holders mostly interested in profit, quality can be iffy in a device that is supposed to be more precise than the finest of clocks.  That being said, I have owned two Remington 700's and have been extremely satisfied with both of them.  My first was a 700 BDL in .300 Win. Mag......it had a wood stock and took a little tweaking to get right, but once the scope and cartridge adjustments completed, it was a weapon that could hols a pattern until the cows came home.  I traded the BDL this year for a deal on a 700 LSS also in .300 Win. Mag.  This last weapon literally came out of the box.  I put a Bushnell Elite 3200 on it and loaded it up with Hornady Interlock's in 180 Gr. for moose hunting.....well guess what, after something like 4-5 shots I was getting 1/2" to 1/4" groups on the very first day from bench at 100 yds!!!  Now I really could'nt believe this myself, so I passed it on to a buddy of mine at the range and he got the same results...this is what I call out of the box accuracy at it's best!!

I am amazed with this guns ability and no one is gonne sell me on a Ruger now....noooooo way!!

Sport240

[JACKNZ]

I own an old REM,700 I,m not even sure what model it is.It,s nothing to look at,still bedded on the wood,free floated by me,crowned by the guy at work after I dinged it,the trigger seems ok to me,it has an aim point PD3
red dot scope on it.I call it my scrub rifle but it will put three shots in darn near the same hole at 100yds.Just like my old truck she ain,t pretty but she gets the job done.I lend it out,it shoots Goats,Pigs,Deer,a couple of Chamois and Thar.Three young fella,s have shot their first Deer with it.
It,s been dropped in rivers and mud,Rained on for days at a time,Snowed on,It went down a water fall the fast way, closely followed by me.
An it still shoots like it should.I reckon it,s not a bad rifle,Ya know!!! :wink:  :grin:

[Guybo]

First of all i'm new here so hi to everyone. My name is Mike i'm 42 and from NC. I've visited here many times so i decided i'd join in, this is a great site. As for the subject of Remingtons it's true most of the custom rifles are built on a rem action. I'm a big remington fan myself and own several of their rifles which are good ones. All my remingtons were accurate out of the box but with a little custom work they are all moa guns now if i do my part. I'll admit the quality of remington firearms has really went down in the past several years. If i were looking to buy a remington today i would look for an older model because in my opinion the older remingtons are a very solid and reliable gun and very accurate out of the box. I'll also admit that i have a couple of savages and although they are not as pretty they are just as accurate and are true workhorses. I think all the gun manufactures better watch out for savage because they have come a long way in the last 5 years and just continue to improve on quality and looks of their firearms. God Bless!

[Dave in WV]

I see M700s like Chevy trucks. There are more after market parts for them than any other. I'm not a M700 fan because for a rifle that was originally designed to be manufactured at a lower cost, they in fact cost more than most of the competition. If there were as many after market parts for a Savage there would be more of them used in competition and for sniper rifles IMHO. Dave

[Skeezix]

The reason there are more custom actions that are copies of the Rem 700 is because it is a simple and effective design made up of fairly simple and easy-to-copy parts.  The receiver is machined from tubing.  The recoil lug is stamped out of flat stock.  The bolt body is fabricated from three pieces: the handle, body tube, and bolt head.

The Winchester and Ruger receivers must be investment cast, forged or machined from bar stock.  The recoil lug is an intregal part of the receiver, and that complicates the manufacturing process.  Since there are VERY few, if any, custom gun shops that have the capability of investment casting, that leaves only machining from bar stock or machining from forgings to produce a Win or Ruger receiver.  And that takes a lot more time and machining operations than what is required to produce a Rem receiver.  And every added machining operation and every added second of time increases the manufacturing cost. In addition, the raw material costs for each of these options is higher than the Rem.

The Ruger and Win bolt bodies are one piece, again requiring either investment casting, forging or machining from bar stock.  And for the same reasons as the receiver, it's much more costly to produce a Ruger or Win type of bolt.

Which is better?  It's a matter of personal taste.  I personally like and appreciate all the extra work and craftsmanship that goes into the Win and Ruger.  BUT, if I was in business to produce a custom action, it would be MUCH easier for me to build Rem style ones.  I could make Ruger or Win style, but they would cost quite a bit more.  

Which design is ultimately more accurate?  I would say neither (but that's another debate).  You could keep diddling with all three of them and probably reach equal accuracy with all three.  But for maintaining benchrest quality accuracy, through multiple barrel changes, the Rem design is certainly easier because of the easily replaceable recoil lug that protects the front face of the receiver.

All the upgrades that y'all mentioned doing to out-of-the-box Rem 700's, if done to ANY commercial bolt-action rifle will achieve the same results.  So there's sure not anything special about them in that department.  And Dave in WV is right: because they are so simple, easy and cheap to manufacture, they ought to cost less than most of the competition, but they don't.  That's why I'm not a Rem 700 fan.  But you've got to give them credit: they've got a GREAT marketing department.  I'm gonna shut up now.  Sorry about the long post.

[coug2wolfs]

I have said in another post that I think Remington has come far in trimming down their rifles, they just plain look good to my eye.

I've had both kinds of Rem 700's. The ones you slap on the bags and go WOW!  And then I had a Sendero that I spent right about 3 months going "what the &*^%$#".  No handload would do better than 2 inches at 100 yards, and factroy ammo was doing good to stay on the paper at 100 yards.

That particular rifle had everything going for it to be a top notch shooter, yet it wasn't.  I heard everything from the bolt face being out of square to the barrel having a crooked crown and in between. Bottom line, for what I paid for it I shouldn't have to go through that rhubarb to get a shooter.

In fairness, that was one of perhaps well over 100 Rem rifles I've owned, and it was the ONLY one I could not get to bust an inch.

Just so nobody gets the wrong idea, I DO like the Remington stuff. Got 3 870 pumps, 28 ga, 20 ga, and a 3 an a half inch duck stomper. Also have a 30-06 Rem pump carbine that will do a half inch off the bags all day, and that's with FACTORY ammo!

IMO, Remington does a far and away better job of wood to metal fit than either Winchester or Browning.

Count me among the Remington fans :wink:

[gunnut69]

Remingtons actions are quite good but the reason they are so loved by the benchrest crew is they are round!  Round is stiff and very easy to make stiffer by sleeving...  Investment casting is a much cheaper way to make a receiver than is even the remington action.  Just check the list price (or wholesale) on a Ruger 77 versus a Remington 700 (with about the same trim level). The Ruger 77 is probably the nicest action (specifically the old model 77) and the M70 is quite nice but the Remington has a jump on both in the accuracy department.  The advantage is the round receiver!!  Easy to bed and keep it flat, and that's the real secret to an accurate rifle.  Bedding that doesn't the action when it's all torqued down...  and that's even more so in a production environment..  Remington's QC has really reached all time lows as have to at least some degree all the major makers.  I've seen Remington rifles that had reamer rings in the chamber that wouldn't allow a fired round to be extracted..M700's that had not been crowned!!, ejectors that had the wrong spring(too short) and refued to function.  I've even seen a Remington 22 rimfire that had reamer marks in the bore--at the muzzle!!  There are other problems but Remington has the poorest track record for fixing these problems of all the makers I've dealt with.  Ruger and Winchester are tied for the best.  Ruger always seems EAGER to fix any problem and Winchester (after a run in with a single bad egg in customer service) is second.  They even sent a new trigger guard/floorplate assembly when I had a problem with one.  As to handguns Ruger is the best, and going away....few problems and those handled to my liking.  S&W is the worst.  I was gladened when the jerks who tried to sell guns owners in this country down the creek were replaced.  I loved the return of some of the old models and the promises of a return to S&W of old.  To be blunt, They lied.   I sent a M60(stainless 38, snub) back.  This weapon was made in the 80's and as most hadn't been fired much.  The trigger pull was horrid and the reason was obvious, a broken hammer pivot pin.  This almost never happens unless the piece is abused(specifically dropped on the hammer spur). Since there was no damage indicating any dropping and the surface of the break was faceted I assumed it sim[ply chrystallized.  The first stainless guns were a learning experience and the alloys and tempers used have changed so I assumed this would be a warrantee repair.  They claimed S&W had no warrantee when the weapon was made and that I would have to pay for any repairs..  They said they would send it to their 'metal lab' but I never saw a lab report.  They did charge and to replace a pin they charged $130..  I suppose I should have just fixed it myself and next time I will, but beware, S&W is not back...  They have a repair shop but no service...  I advise Taurus,, fewer problems and a better customer service.....

[Robert]

I took the stock off and it looked like they had varnished it and threw a handfull of sawdust in the fresh varnish..  I cleaned it up with a dowel wrapped in sandpaper and raised the block a fraction, and it is amazingly accurate now.  I couldnt beleive they let it out of the factory in that condition, but it is a beautifle rifle and a great shooter.

[Graybeard]

My opinion of the Remington Model 700?

Well I think it is best stated like this. The R700 is the ONLY bolt action center fire rifle I own period.

GB

[jhm]

Oh come on GB somewhere in the deep dark crevizes of your heart you are hiding a lusting for a shinny RUGER are you? :-D  :-D     JIM

[Graybeard]

A Ruuuuugggggggggeeeeeerrrrrr? Man you gonna give me apolexy talking lak that.  :eek:

Actually I do own two Rugers at this time. Probaly the most I've ever owned at once. I have an old Bearcat I've not even shot since buying it and a limited edition SS Bisley .45 Colt which I also haven't shot much. BUT the .45 Colt is a shooter. Whether it is a keeper is another story.

Taurus is about to start delivering the Ti Tracker in .45 Colt with 6" barrel. I WILL have one of those. Unless the cylinder is too short for the bullets I want to shoot it will almost for sure replace the Ruger as my .45 Colt revolver and the Ruger will be history at my house.

GB

[eroyd]

Just returned from my first Hi-power Sil. event. Rem 700 actions were popular and generally consensus is that for the money Rem. rifles are better than most. But. the one big complaint I heard a few times was that they have magazine feed problems. Especially those guys shooting short  cartridges. Guys with custom rifles in 7 BR were having a hell of a bad time.

I own two 700 BDL hunting rifles. Though it's never caused me any serious problems I have to admit my 300 wby's a bit clunky on the feed.

[Questor]

Settle down, GB.  You're using those Rugers to optimal effect. Just keep them in the safe where they can't upset you with their accuracy or trigger, or whatever other quirk might offend.  It's OK to take them out of the safe once in a while to promise yourself that you'll have to go shoot them someday.

[Questor]

By the way, GB. You could have Matt modify the forum software so that it automatically translates all instances of "Ruger" to "RooooooooGrrrr!!!"

[Graybeard]

Don't tempt me. I just might.  :twisted:

GB

[257AI]

This is my first post here.  I've had quite a few Remingtons over time and they have been quite accurate.  Accuracy isn't the only thing though.  I have had more trouble with Remingtions with trigger and safety problems than all the other rifles togeather.  I want a rifle that will go bang every time I want it to and not any other time.  If I was limited to one rifle for the rest of my like it wouldn't be a Remington or clone unless I was only planning to shoot targets.  My one rifle would probable be a Custom Mauser.  Very rugged, simple to fix, and most will shoot less than an inch with the right loads.  A close second would be a Winchester Model 70 classic or Ruger 77.  Just my opinion

[Rummer]

My own experience with 700's has been checkered.  The actions are great but the barrels are a different story.  About 15 years ago I bought a 700 ADL Kit Gun in .30-06.  The thing has a horribly long throat but the action is long enough that I can compensate for this by seating bullets out further. In 1998 I bought an ADL Synthetic in .308.  The action is not as smooth as that of my '06 and spitzer style bullets generally have to jump about a tenth of an inch to reach the rifling.  I also get flattened primers and ejector marks with remington factory ammunition.  Around the time I bought the .308 my buddy boughta .270 adl synthetic.  This rifle has a very short throat and every load ever fired through it has grouped between .5 and 1.25 inches at 100 yards.  The folks at remington just seem to be unable to make a decent barrel anymore.

Luckily I got a good enough deal on the .308 to make it worth buying just for the action.  I was thinking of rebarreling the thing in .358.  In the future I believe I will buy used Remingtons for the actions and dump the barrels.  Or maybe I will just buy a CZ or a Browning and be done with it.

Is there any truth to the rumor that 700's fire when the safety is removed?

Rummer

[Graybeard]

Rummer, you are complaining about a rifle that has kept EVERY group ever fired between 1/2" and 1 and a quarter inches? Man you are one hard fellow to please. That is super for a hunting caliber rifle. Not even all the $3500 or so custom rifles will do that. What do you expect from a $500 rifle?

GB

[Zachary]

Own many rifles (about 18 or 19) and I think that about 8 or 9 of them are Remington 700s (all Stainless).

I can tell all of you that I am very surprised about some of the problems that you guys have had, because I have NEVER had ANY problems with any of them.  As most of you know, I love my Tikkas, but my Remingtons (truth be told) are my close second.

I never had any problems with the triggers (although I have trigger jobs done on all of them with 3 lbs pull).  Come to think of it, on one of my 700s, the new factory trigger was loose that I went ahead and replaced it with a Jewell trigger.  Expensive proposition at $230 + $50 labor, but that's the only "problem" I ever had with a trigger.

As for barrels, many gunsmiths will tell you that, generally speaking, Remington's inhouse barrels are actually quite good.  Granted, they generally need "re-crown" jobs, but other than that - they are good.

As for reliability, I have never had one fail.  The gun goes "boom" everytime I pull the trigger - no sooner, no later.

As for accuracy, the only guns that outshoot by Remingtons are my Tikkas - and even then sometimes my Remingtons are more accurate - and I'm talking about sub-MOA will all of them - with some in the 1/2" area - and I'm not the best shooter either.

There is no doubt that the quality of Remington has gone down in recent years, but they are still good guns in comparison with the rest of the market.

Zachary

[Rummer]

Graybeard,  Let me apoplogize for the lack of clarity in my post.  The point I was trying to make was that my buddy's .270 and my .308 both are budget m700's produced around the same time.  The .270 (short throat) is a great shooter for the money but the .308 (long throat) is not.  In fact I have offerred to buy that .270 off of my friend on a regular basis for the last few years.   The point I was trying to make was there seems to be some inconsistency with Remington products within the same line.  I find the long throat coupled with the short action (my .308)to be a real pain.  I think this inconsistency may be symptomatic of poor quality control at remington. My Dad had a similar problem with an M700 barrel in the early 80's.  He had it rebarrelled and problem solved.

In comparing my M700 ADL in '06 and my ADL in .308 I find that the older gun exhibits better workmanship the whole way around.  It's like comparing an 870 and an 870 express.

I don't own any bolt centerfires other than the 2 I mentioned.  My experience with the .308 has given me pause to consider if other rifle manufacturers aren't making better products for the money.

[dbuck]

Well, I guess I'll put my two cents in here, I have one Remington SS 700 BDL in 7mm-08 that shoots 1" groups at 200 yards and this is right out of the box with me during the reloading.  Shot two whitetails at 413 and 417 yards.  I can't ask for a rifle to do much more then this.  I just purchased another 700 ADL in 30-06 that was manufactured in 1964 and I'm using it as a project rifle for my son who is in Afghanistan right now.  He wants me to make up a M-24 sniper rifle for him, but I'm kind of like Zachary, I love my Tikka Whitehunter 270 winchester, she it top notch.

I guess this whole think just stems around what a person likes and how much luck he has had with a certain firearm, just a subjective think I believe.

dbuck

[jhm]

Well another way to look at popularity is the Market share that a manufacturer is holding, I would be willing to say that remington has the largest market share of the bolt actions being sold.  With that said lets use 1% problems as a average on a manufacturer if you sell 1000 pcs at 1% you will have a larger problem # than you will if you only sold 100 pcs yes both would be 1% but remington will have a greater number to answer for, so there are a lot of good in all the rifles sold for the most part, if you cant find the rifle that satisfies your shooting ability or (skill) go to another brand, after all this is America and we can own as many as we can afford (at least for now) :-D      JIM

[Sensei]

Well, I guess I'll put my two cents in here, I have one Remington SS 700 BDL in 7mm-08 that shoots 1" groups at 200 yards and this is right out of the box with me during the reloading.  Shot two whitetails at 413 and 417 yards.  I can't ask for a rifle to do much more then this.  I just purchased another 700 ADL in 30-06 that was manufactured in 1964 and I'm using it as a project rifle for my son who is in Afghanistan right now.  He wants me to make up a M-24 sniper rifle for him, but I'm kind of like Zachary, I love my Tikka Whitehunter 270 winchester, she it top notch.

I guess this whole think just stems around what a person likes and how much luck he has had with a certain firearm, just a subjective think I believe.

dbuck

In commmmmmming ,…  2 more cents worth,.. LOL J
I had the good fortune to get an out of the box Remington 700 Mil Spec 5R barrel in a 308 Win. cal. A rare find with the Military Spec. 5 R barrel. And what a tack driver it is. I also put Leopold’s mil dot M-1  (4 to 14)  Veri-x III Scope on it and this is a great match and shoots as accurate as any thing I have seen. Tested up to 700 meters. Only error I can think of with the results that I have personally experienced from this 308 Win. caliber if you are not getting fine as frog hair groups,………..is the shooter. )   Same hole kind-a stuff. Remington,…my hat is off to you. In comparison, over all,..there is no finer out of the box, bolt action rifle out there than a Remington

[Lawdog]

For me until Remington gets their act together as far as their customer service department is concerned I will not have anything to do with them nor could I in good faith recommend them to anyone.  I was burned by Remington twice on rifles(both M700 BDL's) and one shotgun(M870).  Burned means the firearms didn't work as advertised and Remington did not want to honor their guarantee.  A person shouldn't have to resort to a lawyer to get satisfaction from a company on a new product.  I know of a number of other hunters/shooters that have had to same problem.  So until Remington gets their act together I will tell everyone that Remington
S U C K S.  Lawdog

[spitpatch]

DANG LAWDOG!
A little soured on REAMingtons eh? WOW! I currently own around 37 rifles and a dozen or so pistols, and the Remingtons I own are without a doubt the best shooters. I never do anything to a rifle beside bed and float and If they don't preform their out the door. We all know there are lemons out there, but when the factory don't want to take care of you, thats pretty sad. I've never had a bad Remington but your experience with the factory kinda pisses ME off. Someone was talking about magazine problems, I did have one of them once (Remington 700 ADL-.243) and fixed it myself. Other than that......never had a problem.

[Sensei]

For me until Remington gets their act together as far as their customer service department is concerned I will not have anything to do with them nor could I in good faith recommend them to anyone.  I was burned by Remington twice on rifles(both M700 BDL's) and one shotgun(M870).  Burned means the firearms didn't work as advertised and Remington did not want to honor their guarantee.  A person shouldn't have to resort to a lawyer to get satisfaction from a company on a new product.  I know of a number of other hunters/shooters that have had to same problem.  So until Remington gets their act together I will tell everyone that Remington
S U C K S.  Lawdog

Wow Lawdog,… Sorry, must have hit a nerve here.  I have a question for you. Did the place you purchased your rifle offer you any assistance. I can tell you,.. they can do what they want to do to help you when customers have problems. I am friends as well a good customer with the people that own two high end sporting goods stores i.e. Gun Dealers in town. I had bought a Savage Varmint rifle, I purchased that malfunctioned it was a varmint gun 223 on top 12 gage over and under. A very bad experience with the Savage product but the Store owner took the gun and sent it back to the factory themselves and let me either purchase something else or offered to refund my money. I know how you feel about a bad taste for a certain product and the lack of confidence it lends.  However, I may or may not buy another Savage, but I “will buy” all my products as well tell all my friends about the great service I received from the local store I mentioned above. Sorry you had the problem. I hope somehow this turns around for you.

My best to you,

[Van/TX]

Haven't read all the above posts but read a few.  The Rem 700?   I only have two in 30.06 and .243.  Both were bought new in 1978.  Both have performed flawlessly  ever since  :-D ....Van