357 Maximum - WOW!

[Graybeard]

From the TC Load Manual:

.35 Remington with 200 jacketed round nose maxes out at 2050 fps using H322. All other powders max out at 2000 fps from a 14" barrel. For the .357 Max the same bullet maxes out at 1800 fps using the now long discontinued W680. The next best is W296 maxing out at 1750 fps.

So as you can see there should be about 300 fps or so difference in them both loaded to book max SAAMI pressures. Just guessing but you should be able to gain at least another 100 or 150 fps in favor of the .35 Remington if you load both to same pressure level.

So loaded to SAAMI max for the .357 Max it's maximum potential should be around 400-450 fps less than the .35 Remington loaded to same pressure levels. You'd be very hard pressed to go beyond 2200 fps with a 200 RN in the Remington round staying at normal pressures for other modern rounds like say the .308 Winchester. To do it with the far smaller Max case tells me pressures are up near blue pill proof load level. I'd hazard a guess at closer to 80,000 than to any sane level one should load to. It might even be higher than that. That's the problem you cannot know without pressure testing equipment.

[quickdtoo]

Those capacities are from AmmoGuide which only subscribers can view, links to each cartridge were included in my previous post. Here's their explanations on cartridge specifications.

http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?sn=VgqRCVcfYi&id=aboutagdims

Concerning the 35 Remington as it applies to a Handi, it can be loaded warmer(exceeding SAAMI's 35kcup limit) in stronger actions as detailed in the 1982 Layne Simpson Handloader magazine article, they used a 22" barreled M760 as a test platform.

Tim

[cwlongshot]

For the most part I agree with everything you wrote, Bill. Your info still doesn't account for two things. (I am assuming the maxi data is for a pistol legnth barrel as I haven't seen rifle legnth barrels with data in any manuals.) The two rounds are using different powders (Maxi a faster while 35 rem a slower) and the barrels the data was gathered in was of different lengths. Now I offer that a maxi is going to gain more velocity from a longer barrel than the 35 rem will. But on the same token, the 35 Rem will LOOSE less from a shorter barrel. This will account for the higher than "data" posted velocities with the Maxi.

 I have found the same thing in my loading of the 500 S&W Mag. Again, using the same powders as the Maxi.

 Rest assured, my loads are ALL straight from my manuals. I also have a chrony and quoted actual velocities from that unit.

I  also WHOLE HEARTEDLY agree with you, surpassing "BOOK" loads is foolhardy at the very least. The posting of such loads should NOT be allowed. I resist posting ANY loads for fear I may inadvertently miss quote or flatly forget the actual load. I have posted some, but try to post disclaimers that data should be checked. I also suggest any data found form anyone but the manufacturer should not be trusted at face value. Its easy enough to double check loads.

Stepping off my soap box and heading for bed...
 Thanks for reading,
 CW

[Ololique]

I took two more deer this past weekend with the 357Max.  First doe was about 50yds, broadside, double lung.  She ran about 50yds and crashed.  The largest bloodtrail I've EVER seen from any deer, using any weapon!  The second doe was again at 50yds, quartering towards me.  The bullet entered just behind the right shoulder, penetrated both lungs and exited near the end of the ribcage.  She ran about 40yds and dropped in a small creek. 

Both deer exhibited very large entrance and exit wounds, at least 2" in diameter.  The recoil of the 357Max is so mild that you can actually see the hide ripple when the bullet impacts.  In my opinion, this is a truly fantastic deer round that I would use on any deer, of any size without worry.  Heading back out today for more...  Hopefully more reports to follow.   

[LaOtto222]

good to hear Those 35 caliber bullets do make a fair sized hole.

[dpe.ahoy]

Keep it up and I'm gonna hafta order that reamer sooner than later.   Got 3 barrels now that need the job done to them.  I'm still worried, when it comes to fixin', measuring or cutting, I'm about worthless.  I can measure something 3 times, write it down each time and still cut the thing wrong.   DP

[cwlongshot]

I took two more deer this past weekend with the 357Max.  First doe was about 50yds, broadside, double lung.  She ran about 50yds and crashed.  The largest bloodtrail I've EVER seen from any deer, using any weapon!  The second doe was again at 50yds, quartering towards me.  The bullet entered just behind the right shoulder, penetrated both lungs and exited near the end of the ribcage.  She ran about 40yds and dropped in a small creek. 

Both deer exhibited very large entrance and exit wounds, at least 2" in diameter.  The recoil of the 357Max is so mild that you can actually see the hide ripple when the bullet impacts.  In my opinion, this is a truly fantastic deer round that I would use on any deer, of any size without worry.  Heading back out today for more...  Hopefully more reports to follow.   

 CONGRATULATIONS!! 

I agree, the Maxi is my "GO TO" caliber. I LOVE IT!!! With what I have learned shooting and recovering, (Or not) different bullets at its higher attainable velocities. I would not hesitate to shoot about any game animal, I would hunt, with in 100 yards.
The last two bucks I shot with it fell in there tracks with high shoulder shots.
CW

[Ololique]

dpe.ahoy - I'm a mechanical engineer with alot of background in machining.  If I thought for a second that the reaming job was difficult or chancey, I'd let you know.  In my opinion, it's nearly idiot proof to ream out the barrel.  You won't cut it too deep due to the rim stop on the reamer.  I took the head off of a large drill to chuck the reamer in and used this to hand turn it.  It took MAYBE 5 minutes, and I'd honestly let my 6yr old niece do it.  It's THAT simple.

Also, I took another small deer with the 357Max last night.  That's 4 deer that I've taken with this rifle in the past 10 days.  What a performer on all accounts!!  This deer was 30yds from me broadside.  I stopped him with a bleat call, and buried the bullet right behind the left shoulder.  He went 20yds and collapsed.  Upon field dressing the deer, I saw that both lungs were utterly destroyed and the top of the heart was also burst.  No wonder he shut down so quickly.  All I can say is, I LOVE THIS RIFLE!!     Heading back out on Thanksgiving morning to see if I can nail another.  Tis a good year so far!!

[quickdtoo]

DP, see Hand Reaming the 357mag to 357Max in the FAQs and Help sticky, anyone can do it, all ya need is a tap handle and some cutting oil.  I've done several throatings as well as a 30-30AI and 460S&W, all by hand. 

Tim

[dpe.ahoy]

Did I tell ya'll about the tent frame legs I cut to long, then cut to short?   Quit drinking 14 years ago, can't even have a drink to get my courage up   I'll try it one of these days, watch for a post that says "OH Shoot" (you know what I mean by shoot).   DP

[db22]

dpe.ahoy -- Cut and try, cut and try, cut and try. Use lots of cutting oil (the stuff at the local hardware store works fine), go slow, and keep a properly-trimmed .357 Maximum case handy. That's the "try" part -- keep taking the reamer out and chambering the case, until you see the case rim go flush with the barrel. If you cut it short, you can always trim your cases a bit more to fit your chamber.

The rifling leade or "ball seat" in your barrel is probably way long -- most of us have found that to be so in factory-chambered .357 Magnum barrels. All you need to do with the reamer is move the chamber mouth forward. DON'T CUT THE RIM SEAT DEEPER. Sorry for the caps, but if you cut the rim too deep, the rifle will misfire. Look at the reamer -- if the cutting flutes include the rim shape, take great care as you see the reamer's "rim" go into the already-cut factory rim seat. Here's where the "try" part becomes very important. Use your full-length Maximum case to check for a flush fit. As soon as the barrel closes and fully locks in the frame on a full-length case, you are finished cutting.

The Maximum cartridge, as Ololique has made clear, is effective within its reasonable limits. At Wisconsin woods distances, it is ideal for a hunter who possesses good rifle skills. It has always made sense to me that you can't cleanly kill a head of game if you are afraid of your rifle. The low recoil and report of the Max allows you to use your marksmanship skill with confidence.

[bajabill]

I only get ~1950 fps with a 180 hornady xtp from my 22" maxi.  That is with H110, about a half grain over book.  Pushing a 200gr up to 2100 seems strong.

well, I found a different book  ,  I think it is the Lyman manual I read at the gun shop.  It goes up to 22gr of H110 for a 180gr bullet.  I am now getting about 2050fps with a 180 Horn XTP and very accurate.  And almost 1925fps with a 200gr remington, not as accurate.  I think I am content now.

[cwlongshot]

I only get ~1950 fps with a 180 hornady xtp from my 22" maxi.  That is with H110, about a half grain over book.  Pushing a 200gr up to 2100 seems strong.

well, I found a different book  ,  I think it is the Lyman manual I read at the gun shop.  It goes up to 22gr of H110 for a 180gr bullet.  I am now getting about 2050fps with a 180 Horn XTP and very accurate.  And almost 1925fps with a 200gr remington, not as accurate.  I think I am content now.

 Good job!!

 I'm heading down to the loading room tonight. Gonna load some maxi's and some 25-20s for dem pesky tree rats!!