Magna-Ports and Gas Checks?

[pab1]

I picked up a used Model 83 6", in .454 Casull with a 4 port Magna-Port. I thought I remembered reading somewhere that gas checked bullets should not be fired in a ported barrel. Is there any truth to this? I have a supply of CPB 335gr WLNGC bullets I have used in my BH .45 Colt that I would like to load for .454 also.

Does anyone have experience with the CP 335 gr WLNGC on game?

[stuffit]

pab1 wrote: "I picked up a used Model 83 6", in .454 Casull with a 4 port Magna-Port. I thought I remembered reading somewhere that gas checked bullets should not be fired in a ported barrel. Is there any truth to this?"

No

 
stuffit

[yooper77]

Freedom Arms model 83 in 454 Casull usually only will chamber bullets sized to .451, any larger reloaded will not chamber.

Are your Cast Performance 335 grain W-ide L-ong N-ose G-as C-heck bullets sized to .451?

I don't know about the porting question though, I don't use or like any breaks or porting in my firearms.

yooper77

[Steve P]

Soft lead bullets can cause lead build up in the ports.  The two items of note are 'soft' and 'can'.  I have several guns with ports or magnaports or some sort of muzzle break.  None of them have leaded to date.  I use mostly wheelweights that are dropped and water quenched right from the mold.  All of my FAs, except the .22, like the LBT bullets.

Steve 

[paul105]

You won't have any problems with the gas checks in the ported gun.  I've shot thousands of them thru a .475 LB.  All the bullets I've shot thru the .475 are hard cast, and haven't experienced any leading buildup in the ports themselves.  You will get some lead splash buildup on the front sight base, just above the port -- see picture below.  This lead buildup can be easily removed by scraping it off with a fired cast.

You should load a dummy round, seat the 335s normally and crimp in the crimp grove to make sure they will seat in the FA chambers.  Most FA guns have tight throats and if the bullet nose profile is full caliber for any length beyond the crimp grove, and they are sized greater than .451 or .452 (depending upon the individual gun), you could have chambering issues.  The throats on my .454 were so tight that I couldn't seat FA factory 300gr JSPs.  I finally sent the cyl to FA and they chamfered the throat lead slightly, and I've since been able to load and fire .452 cast bullets with no problem




Paul

[Lloyd Smale]

my fa 454 will chamber 452 bullets just fine. it shoots them much better then 451 bullets too.

[palgeno]

Pab1---I have used that exact bullet with good success in my 7 1/2 inch Magnaported M83 .454. In fact, I tried the 300gr., 335gr., and 360gr. CPB GCs and all shot well. The 335 gr. seems to be a good compromise for velocity and accuracy. The twist rate of the barrel would seem to favor lighter bullets and it seems that the 260 gr. FA JFP mught just be the "perfect" bullet. My gun also likes the Hornady 240gr and 300gr XTP MAG bullets. The bottom line is what terminal effect are you looking for on the specific intended game? Lots of good choices here! Gene

[pab1]

Thanks for the info guys! I will have to check to see if the .452" bullets will work in mine. I have not started loading this round yet. The gun seems to like 240 and 300 gr XTP factory loads though. I would like to find a jacketed bullet that will expand on deer but still get enough penetration for elk. I have some 300 gr Sierra JSPs, but I think they may be too hard to expand on deer. I also have 260 gr Partitions and 300 gr XTP JHPs I will load, but I don't know if they will give adequate penetration for elk. I am in the middle of moving so it will be a while before I can work up loads and test bullet performance. The 260 gr FA JFP sounds interesting.

[Lloyd Smale]

to me bullets that are good in the 454 start at 300 grain and end at 350 grain. Preferable cast and theres no way id waste my time with jacketed bullets under 300 grain. the 454 is capable of shooting a 300 grain bullet to 1500fps and that will give you plenty flat trajectory for any shot your going to take with a handgun. At least any sane shot. Why take a chance on a bullet that may fail to penetrate just to stroke your ego by telling someone how fast your bullet is going or to think your making a scoped revolver into a 200 yard hunting gun when NONE of them should be used that way. If im shooting past a 100 yards im taking a rifle and im about the most dedicated handgun hunter you will find. Sure theres a rare man, and i know a couple of them, that can probably stretch that another 50-100 yards but ive been around some of the best and most famous handgun hunters in the country and i know only two that i would have confidense in. If I had to tell someone what bullet to buy for one id have to tell them to look for a 320lfngc. Lfns shoot well in most guns. They fly out to long range and hit with athourity. dont be sucked in by the faster is better croud most of them are inexperienced handgunners. Very few dedicated handgun hunters use jacketed bullets,. Most use a medium to heavy for the caliber hard cast bullet.

[pab1]

Why take a chance on a bullet that may fail to penetrate just to stroke your ego by telling someone how fast your bullet is going or to think your making a scoped revolver into a 200 yard hunting gun when NONE of them should be used that way.....Very few dedicated handgun hunters use jacketed bullets,. Most use a medium to heavy for the caliber hard cast bullet.

Lloyd, I'm not interested in stroking my ego by shooting a light bullet at high velocity. I am not interested in 200 yard shots either. I approach handgun hunting as I do traditional archery, by getting as close to the animal I am hunting as possible. I try to match the bullet to the game. 240 gr XTPs are very accurate in my Model 83 and I have no problem using them for whitetail sized game.

There are many dedicated handgun hunters who use jacketed bullets. JD Jones wrote an article in American Handgunner (July/August '01) listing advantages of jacketed bullets over hard cast bullets for hunting. Mark Hampton also writes about the advantages of jacketed bullets in his book Handgun Hunting ((pg 15). You won't find many people more didicated to handgun hunting than those two. Freedom Arms sells jacketed bullets because there is a market for them. I use both jacketed and hard cast bullets for different purposes. I carry my 4" SRH loaded with 320 gr CPB for protection in the field and have extreme confidence in their ability to penetrate bone and tisse. For the majority of my hunting, I prefer a jacketed soft point bullet that will penetrate yet still expand, causing more tissue damage.

[fowler]

JD Jones wrote an article in American Handgunner (July/August '01) listing advantages of jacketed bullets over hard cast bullets for hunting. Mark Hampton also writes about the advantages of jacketed bullets in his book Handgun Hunting ((pg 15). You won't find many people more dedicated to handgun hunting than those two.

With all due respect to JD Jones and Mark Hampton neither is a revolver hunter, sure they have killed a few animals with wheel guns but both are single shot handgun hunters that are shooting stockless rifles on 95% of their hunts. Hampton's book is little more than his bragging about his hunting exploits the world over, I have it, I have read it twice, It was barely worth the $5.00 I paid for it at Barnes and Noble's bargain bin.

Read Elmer Keith, read Ross Seyfried, these men hunted with handguns for animals they were not sure would die when they shot them. When Seyfried killed his first Cape Buff with a handgun in 1983 it was sticking his butt out on the line, now we think of it as pretty common practice. These men hunted with cast bullets because they work under all conditions for all game, they continued even after quality jacket bullets became readily available. When the chips are down a heavy cast slug can not fail, it will always penetrate, and it will kill. Jacketed bullets do a couple of things that are generally bad when it comes to killing game. They can fail because they are asked to change their shape in a controlled manner. Yes this causes more tissue damage but it also slows a bullet dramatically stopping the penetration that actually is the most important thing. Remember these guns start at a caliber that most rifle bullets will only barely attain when fully expanded, but they don't have the advantage of 3000fps to keep pushing the bullet deeper.

FA jacketed bullets to be fair will hardly expand if you it a anvil with them at 1500fps, they are thick jacketed and very tough, they are truthfully closer to a hard cast bullet than a jacketed bullet. If all you will hunt is a 125 pound whitetail a lighter jacket bullet will be fine, but if the the game is something heavy like moose, big bear, or elk then you really should have a heavy for caliber cast bullet in your gun.

Just my never humble opinion. Listen to Lloyd he is a wise man who has learned from some of the best...

[pab1]

Like I said, I use both jacketed and cast bullets. Both are useful IMO. As I said before I try to match the bullet to the game being hunted. I want a bullet that will penetrate, and give some expansion, causing tissue damage along the way, resulting in a fast, humane kill. A 240 gr XTP is more than adequate for whitetail, just as a strong 300 gr JSP will work for elk. I hunt with what I have confidence in, no ego stroking involved. If I ever have the opportunity to hunt cape buffalo, a heavy cast bullet would be my first choice.

The cast vs jacketed debate will go on forever with people from both sides believing their choice is better. When a shoulder or heavy bone is hit with a cast bullet they work very well. I have not been impressed with them when bone is not impacted. That is my opinion based on my experiences. At the same time I avoid heavy bone with an XTP or similar bullet. I have tremendous respect for Elmer Keith. His writings kicked off  my interest in handgun hunting. I also respect the opinions of Jones and Hampton. Yes, both do focus on single shot handguns, they have both been exposed to an incredible variety of game animals shot with both cast and jacketed bullets from revolvers. Their experience with bullet performance on game far outweighs the majority of "experts" out there.

Thanks for the information everyone. I'll be moving out of state tomorrow, so I don't know when my internet access will be back up. Hopefully it will not be too long!

[Lloyd Smale]

like was said this argument has been going on for 50 years and were not going to settle it here. For whitetail deer it doesnt matter squat as either will kill them just fine. Anything bigger and i know whats going to be loaded in my gun. I will go by my own experience not some magazine writers. Id probably brag more on hornady or remington jacketed handgun bullets myself if they were sending me thousands for free to try and paying for hunts to get there bullets metioned in articles.

[odoh]

There's no real choice here in CA for hunting. '. . . .must be of soft nose or expanding type bullet .. . ' sigh!

[Steve P]

There's no real choice here in CA for hunting. '. . . .must be of soft nose or expanding type bullet .. . ' sigh!

That means no FMJ bullets.  Must have a soft nose which is any exposed lead tip or HP configuration.  Only thing I have ever shot FMJ at in CA is Coyote or other critter I was hunting for their fur.  Only close perfect head shots were taken.  Tiny hole in and tiny hole out.  No damage.  Drop like rocks.

Steve 

[Redhawk1]

JD Jones wrote an article in American Handgunner (July/August '01) listing advantages of jacketed bullets over hard cast bullets for hunting. Mark Hampton also writes about the advantages of jacketed bullets in his book Handgun Hunting ((pg 15). You won't find many people more dedicated to handgun hunting than those two.

With all due respect to JD Jones and Mark Hampton neither is a revolver hunter, sure they have killed a few animals with wheel guns but both are single shot handgun hunters that are shooting stockless rifles on 95% of their hunts. Hampton's book is little more than his bragging about his hunting exploits the world over, I have it, I have read it twice, It was barely worth the $5.00 I paid for it at Barnes and Noble's bargain bin.

Read Elmer Keith, read Ross Seyfried, these men hunted with handguns for animals they were not sure would die when they shot them. When Seyfried killed his first Cape Buff with a handgun in 1983 it was sticking his butt out on the line, now we think of it as pretty common practice. These men hunted with cast bullets because they work under all conditions for all game, they continued even after quality jacket bullets became readily available. When the chips are down a heavy cast slug can not fail, it will always penetrate, and it will kill. Jacketed bullets do a couple of things that are generally bad when it comes to killing game. They can fail because they are asked to change their shape in a controlled manner. Yes this causes more tissue damage but it also slows a bullet dramatically stopping the penetration that actually is the most important thing. Remember these guns start at a caliber that most rifle bullets will only barely attain when fully expanded, but they don't have the advantage of 3000fps to keep pushing the bullet deeper.

FA jacketed bullets to be fair will hardly expand if you it a anvil with them at 1500fps, they are thick jacketed and very tough, they are truthfully closer to a hard cast bullet than a jacketed bullet. If all you will hunt is a 125 pound whitetail a lighter jacket bullet will be fine, but if the the game is something heavy like moose, big bear, or elk then you really should have a heavy for caliber cast bullet in your gun.

Just my never humble opinion. Listen to Lloyd he is a wise man who has learned from some of the best...

Very good post, best I read in a while.   

[Lloyd Smale]

fowler thats an excellent post. All fact except for the comment about me   I have killed and have watched being killed quite a few animals with handguns of just about every caliber. Like i said in my last post deer arent hard to kill and about any bullet will do the job. On anything bigger or tougher then deer cast wins hands down. I guess my theroy on deer is if im working load up for a big bore gun and am using it on deer why not use cast which is just as good or better on deer and then my guns all set for anything bigger i will be hunting in the future. Perosnaly i think working up loads for a 454 475 or one of the 500s with jacketed bullets is a waste of time. Another thing is that if a guy has to buy jacketed bullets there very expensive to buy when there built to REALLY take the velocitys a 454 has. YOu can buy cast that will actually out preform them for half the money. I guess i think differnt then most. If i can afford a 2000 dollar gun i can afford a pot and a mold. I know everyone doesnt want to learn to cast or has the time but bottom line without exception if you dont cast your own bullet for these guns and arent a rich man you will never shoot enough to really master one of the hard kickers. You may think you have mastered it when you can shoot a 2 inch group off a bench but eventualy your lack of mastering that gun will jump up and bite you. You need to shoot thousands of rounds of ammo out of a hard kicking gun to really master it not a couple hundred.  Ill leave this post with one last though. Ive NEVER seen an animal of any size that was hit properly with a cast bullet not die. I HAVE seen animals hit properly with jacketed handgun bullets that didnt. Or at least if the did they died after days of suffering.  I dont care much about what jd jones says. I can also quote you stuff that real revolver hunters like the linebaughs and some other freinds of mine will tell you but i wont. Ill stick to my own experiences.

JD Jones wrote an article in American Handgunner (July/August '01) listing advantages of jacketed bullets over hard cast bullets for hunting. Mark Hampton also writes about the advantages of jacketed bullets in his book Handgun Hunting ((pg 15). You won't find many people more dedicated to handgun hunting than those two.

With all due respect to JD Jones and Mark Hampton neither is a revolver hunter, sure they have killed a few animals with wheel guns but both are single shot handgun hunters that are shooting stockless rifles on 95% of their hunts. Hampton's book is little more than his bragging about his hunting exploits the world over, I have it, I have read it twice, It was barely worth the $5.00 I paid for it at Barnes and Noble's bargain bin.

Read Elmer Keith, read Ross Seyfried, these men hunted with handguns for animals they were not sure would die when they shot them. When Seyfried killed his first Cape Buff with a handgun in 1983 it was sticking his butt out on the line, now we think of it as pretty common practice. These men hunted with cast bullets because they work under all conditions for all game, they continued even after quality jacket bullets became readily available. When the chips are down a heavy cast slug can not fail, it will always penetrate, and it will kill. Jacketed bullets do a couple of things that are generally bad when it comes to killing game. They can fail because they are asked to change their shape in a controlled manner. Yes this causes more tissue damage but it also slows a bullet dramatically stopping the penetration that actually is the most important thing. Remember these guns start at a caliber that most rifle bullets will only barely attain when fully expanded, but they don't have the advantage of 3000fps to keep pushing the bullet deeper.

FA jacketed bullets to be fair will hardly expand if you it a anvil with them at 1500fps, they are thick jacketed and very tough, they are truthfully closer to a hard cast bullet than a jacketed bullet. If all you will hunt is a 125 pound whitetail a lighter jacket bullet will be fine, but if the the game is something heavy like moose, big bear, or elk then you really should have a heavy for caliber cast bullet in your gun.

Just my never humble opinion. Listen to Lloyd he is a wise man who has learned from some of the best...

[pab1]

Thanks to all with answers to my original post.