Author Topic: A Buffalo Classic that will not shoot (Read 2926 times)

littlejack · « **on:** June 30, 2008, 11:36:57 AM »

Hello fella's and ladies if any:
I'm new to this forum with this being my first post. I have a real problem, and have been on a couple of other forums to try to get answers but there has been no cure.
I have been shooting and reloading for 45+ years. I am 58 years young and would rather be at the range than at home.
I bought a new Buffalo Classic in 45-70 caliber in February 2006. I floated the forarm as some suggested would help the groups. I have cast several weights and alloys of lead bullets but cannot get the rifle to shoot consistantly. The cast weights are from the Lyman 330 grain hp, the Lee 405 grain hb, a Lyman 475 grain pb, a custom 450 grain, a custom 400 and a Lyman 535 grain Postell. All have been shot naked and then sized down correctly and pp'd. The BC will not hold a decent groups with any of them. I have shot them from velocities from the 1100 fps to 1700-1800 fps. Powders I used were 2400, 4198,re7,3031,4895, and varget. After using the factory sights, I put a Leupold 2x7 Rifleman scope and still the groups were erratic. I pulled the scope off and sent it to Leupold and told them that it would not hold it's zero. They did whatever they do to scopes and sent it back to me. I remounted it on the BC and still the same results. I loaded some jacketed bullets and this did not do any better. The jacketed bullets were the Hornaday 300 hp's and the 350 fp's, the speer 400 fp's, the speer 350 fp's. I was told by members of one of the other forums, that the lockup was not correct in the rifle. I honed the shelf off to get more engagement but took too much off. I had to build it back up and start over. This did not help either. I finally sent the rifle back to H&R and told them what was going on. I told them to replace the barrell and I would pay for it. To their credit, and kudos to them, they replaced the barrell at no charge to me. I requested that they test fire it and send me the target. They sent me a picture of the target. The ammunition was the Winchester 300 hp's. The group that the factory shot? looked to be 1" at 100 yards for five shots. I bought a box of this ammo and could only get a four inch group. I let another member of the gun club shoot it and his best was 6"x 6.5". This is with the factory sights.
I shoot at the range almost every weekend and all of my other rifle will shoot under one inch with me shooting them. Some of them even less than that. Can anyone tell me what the hell is going on with the Buffalo Classic? I am ready to call H&R and ask them if they will take the damn thing back if they will refund mny money. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Jack

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** June 30, 2008, 12:38:23 PM »

Welcome aboard Jack!

I read your thread at Handloads, was hoping maybe things had improved. Getting back to basics, you said you cleaned it when you got the rifle back from H&R with the new barrel, did you make sure the latch and latch shelf were clean and dry before you shot it? Oil/solvent on either will cause inaccuracy 99% of the time, so that would be the first place I'd look since nothing else was done since H&R shot the nice group with factory ammo. The gunsmiths at H&R will tell you that most accuracy issues are solved by cleaning and drying the latch engagement surfaces, it's the number one complaint.

When you say you've sized cast bullets correctly, do you mean you've slugged the bore and are shooting bullets sized .001"-.002" larger in diameter than the groove diameter of the bore?

Have you shot it without the forend on? If it shoots good without the forend, with the front rest under the frame, the forend is the problem and needs to be worked on, either floated or bedded. If it fits tight, flat sand the plastic spacer so the forend just stays in place without the screw holding it, then work from there, and try a pressure point near the muzzle end of the forend, I prefer a 1" square of refrigerator magnet, it will float the forend and they seem to be the right thickness as well as being weather and heat resistant and very stable in different temps.

That's where I'd start if I were in your boots, hope ya get a handle on it.

Tim

handirifle · « **Reply #2 on:** June 30, 2008, 04:31:06 PM »

One thing that isn't mentioned in your post, where are you resting the rifle on the front rest? Actually, ARE you resting it on a rest? I assume this is not freehand shooting.

H&R's, even the BC, work best when supported close to the front end of the receiver, as opposed to rested on the front end of the forend. Placing the forend on the sandbag somewhere between the forend screw and the receiver ought to be acceptable.

Seeing that you've tried factory ammo as well as hand loads, it doesn't add up to bore sizing, at least not completely.

Not knowing you or the other guy, let me ask, hoping not to offend, but are you sure you're not flinching? Are you experienced with big bores? Like I said, not meaning to offend, just to try to eliminate all possiblilties. Since you're new to NEF's, make sure you're pulling the trigger all the way through to make for consistant pin strikes. Is there any vertical or lateral movement on the barrel/receiver conntection, when closed? There should be ZERO.

The bullets you mention ought to do well in a BC. Unless NEF faked the target (not likely) something is different, from them to you. Not sure how good your eyes are but for ME 4" at 100yds is good with factory irons.

Slug the bore, looking for tight spots as you go. Then measure the bullets you're using, but since you've tried jacketed as well as cast, I don't think it's the rifle. My BC LOVED the speer 400's.

Keep us posted please.

littlejack · « **Reply #3 on:** July 01, 2008, 09:50:18 AM »

Thanks for the replies fella's.
I did clean and dry the shelf and latch. I did slug the bore on the original barrel and on the replacement barrell. The slugged size in the presant barrell is .4575. When I use my cast bullets I size them at .459. When I paper patch the bullets, I size them at .454 and do two wraps with .0025 velum. The bullets wrapped bullets come out at .460.
I have not shot the rifle with out the forend, but will do so.
I have shot the rifle off the bench every way but standing on my head. I have used bags under the front of the forarm, with the bags under the hinge pin and with my hand supporting the forarm between the bags and forarm. I'm not flinching. The rifle didn't shoot any more consistantly with the scope. The action is tight.
I truly wish that you fella's were here to shoot this rifle. If I am doing something wrong, I have no problems in admitting it. I have shot over two thousand rounds through this rifle with the original barrel and one would think that something would come together.
I have a 20" barrelled modlel 44 Moisin-Nagant that I sporterized. It has acheap Bushnell 4x scope on it and it will shoot 1" groups all day at 100 yards with my reloads and me pulling the trigger.
Jack

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** July 01, 2008, 10:11:34 AM »

Jack,

When you mounted the scope rail, did you make sure the factory thread locker was completely removed? If you didn't see shiny metal at the bottom of the holes, the screws may bottom out before they're tight on the rail leaving it lose. It's happens enough that some members have used shorter screws thinking the screws were too long. $:-\$

Tim

littlejack · « **Reply #5 on:** July 01, 2008, 11:14:54 AM »

I checked the holes visually to make sure the threads were good. I didn't notice anything that needed to be removed. The scope mount was good and secure when I finished mounting it. The scope was solid.
Jack

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** July 01, 2008, 01:15:24 PM »

Remounting the scope base using the info in the Accurizing section of the FAQs seems to me to be a good "back to square 1" measure since that's the biggest change since the factory had it, Stimpy is taking that step with his Sportster that's giving him fits.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,146698.msg1098605185.html#msg1098605185

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,26264.msg525466.html#msg525466

littlejack · « **Reply #7 on:** July 05, 2008, 01:21:56 PM »

Another update:
Just got back from the range again. I figured I would give the BC another try. Today I shot at 50 yards. I loaded up some of my cast 530 grain Postell bullets. I cast them out of ww's and size them at .459. The load was 35 grains of Re7. The velocity was supposed to be around 1150 -1200 fps according to my Lyman 48th edition. All of the groups ran around 3"- 4". I checked the forarm and barrell clearance before I left. I took some more material off from the forarm. I can slide a folded five dollar bill between the two. I tried what was suggested and shot it with the forarm removed. No good. I shot it with the forarm setting on the bag just in front of the hinge pin. No good. I tried it with the barrel resting on the bag. "Shooting sticks"?. No good. I supported the rifle with my hand holding the forarm between the bag. No good. At 50 yards, this rifle should have put all the bullets in the same hole. Sorry piece of #&^*$% junk.
Jack

tykempster · « **Reply #8 on:** July 05, 2008, 02:57:32 PM »

stinks that it won't shoot, I hope mine in 45-120 will hold at least 4" with peep sights.

Ed Hill · « **Reply #9 on:** July 05, 2008, 06:14:03 PM »

LittleJack, my BC doesn't like cast much past 1250fps. It is very accurate at around 1150 with cast bullets. I just looked at a couple of loads for R-7 with 35 grains and 520 grn bullets and they show 1440 fps. Are you sure you aren't pushing that bullet faster than you think?

My best cast load has been with the Lee 405 or the Laser cast 405 with 26 grains of xmp5744. This is a mild target load, not a hunting load, but has been very accurate.

Ed

trotterlg · « **Reply #10 on:** July 05, 2008, 06:35:49 PM »

+*+*/

--+

Just dumped a glass of good whisky in my keyboard, what I was going to day is that there are problems to which there are not solutions. Just chalk it up to experience and dump it, life is too short to fight a loosing fight. Larry

NFG · « **Reply #11 on:** July 06, 2008, 07:01:46 AM »

My BC doesn't like cast bullets either...OR...Re7(except for 2 bullets, the Speer 400 gr and the Hornday 350 gr RN and then only at the low end of the velocity spectrum) for the most part....it likes 4198, 4895, AA2015 with pretty much all other JACKETED bullets and 425 to 550 Beartooth and Hawk bullets.

Rifles are like that. They have preferences just like you and me and refuse to cooperate if you try to be the top dog and push them around.

I also installed an aftermarket forend, two forend mounting points, and added some weight to the buttstock, replaced the original sights and use a 1-4x variable scope. Now I don't have any problem getting 1" or less 3 shot groups at 100 yds with JACKETED bullets...any brand using 4198 and 4895 for the most part and each bullet likes one particular powder better than the other and I use Fed Gold Match primers also. You just have to work at it and enjoy what you are doing.

Some rifles are more persnickity than others and take a bit of work...if you don't have the patience to work through the process then get rid of it...otherwise the *&^)#$ POS might be the nut behind the wheel. This game can get frustrating at times...you have to develope a methodical system in developing accuracy as you, the rifle and ALL its components ARE a system and each has to work with the other. If you go negative on your shooter you probably will never develope a good load because all the negativity is reflected in the way you shoot, the way you reload, the way you approach the whole shebang.

There has never been an easy way to get ANY rifle to shoot well ,barring the custom built one where all the bugs are already addressed and worked through by the maker and you still have to work up the most accurate load.

I would suggest stepping back and taking a good look at what your are doing...the components you are using, the way you reload, what level of ability you are actually at. Start at one point, keep very good notes on the targets, start low and work up slow, stay with one bullet/powder/primer and if that doesn't work change just ONE parameter at a time and start all over. If the rifle is new it might take a couple hundred rounds to break the barrel in, be sure you clean right down to bare metal using WipeOut foam after every 50 rounds or so, then note where the first shot out of the clean cold barrel hits and where the others go also....Otherwise

If you don't want to go through the "normal process" of load developement, and NEFs can be a bit mean...follow the stickys to fully "accurize" the BC, then go buy Leverevolution ammo, Garrett, or just plain old Rem/Win and accept the accruacy....or get rid of it...

Good Luck

'Njoy

littlejack · « **Reply #12 on:** July 06, 2008, 08:25:56 AM »

NFG:
Apparently, you have not read all of my posts. I have been working on this rifle for over two years. I have tried all suggestions, many many powders and bullet combinations. I do not believe in the negativities being inflickted on my shooting ability or the quality of my reloads. It seems that there are many folks out there that cannot accept the fact that I this rifle will not shoot consistantly with the hundreds of rounds that I have reserched and reloaded for it. It well may be that I have not hit on the load that the rifle likes, but to hear that these rifles do not like cast bullets is pathetic. This cartridge was origianally designed for cast or swaged lead. The rifling is indeed too shallow for the lead bullets. The proper depth rifling for a black powder cartridge ( as told to me by a gunsmith specializing in bp cartridges) is .005 and in this rifle it is .002 - .0025 . How does the factory expect the shallow rifling to hold the soft lead bullets. Just some more information for ya.
Jack

Tencubed · « **Reply #13 on:** July 06, 2008, 10:32:49 AM »

Littlejack:

I understand what you are saying about that barrel, most of us that have been at this game for half a century or close to it have had this kind of experience. Mine have been a custom '06 on a Mark X action and a 220 Swift rebarrel on a Model 70 action.

You mentioned that the rifle was returned from the factory with a picture of a reasonable group. Maybe you can find out what they were using for these tests and build on that. Otherwise it seems you just have a bad barrel. One amongst many good ones apparently. Might be easiest on the pocketbook and nerves to simply use it as a base to hold an insert barrel.

You might try shortening the barrel by several inches and see if the harmonics make a difference.

Mike

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #14 on:** July 06, 2008, 04:09:39 PM »

Jack, mine shoots pretty well with a harder alloy. I use the Lyman #2 alloy (15 brinell) and either the Lyman # 457125 or the Lee 500 3R sized to .459 and lubed with either SPG or 50/50 alox at about 1100-1150'. I use .002 neck tension and seat them to touch the lands.

You might try a stiffer alloy...........maybe 16 to 1 or so.

Try a start load of SR-4759 if you get a chance.

Here's a good cast reference page:

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

NFG · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2008, 06:33:23 PM »

Well....yes I have been following this thread...and no I wasn't inflicting any negatives on your shooting ablility...I wouldn't know you from Adam and I've never seen you shoot, but the tone of your prose is definitely on the wrong side of the bed area...I was suggesting a new approach. I've been at this game a day or two and you're not the first to get disgusted with a shooter. The whole story is never presented by the questionee and NO ONE knows the level of your experience in ANY part of this process...it doesn't matter how much you've worked at building a load, how long or what you did. If your mind is clouded, you just won't get there. You neglected to present any visual evidence in the form of targets that might have helped in the diagnosis. I have no idea the level of nuances you have achieved and just because someone has been shooting for 50 years doesn't really mean they know squat, the woods are full of very dangerous two legged know-nothings. There are always other things that can be done before you start using the barrel for a jack handle, that's what I WAS...in the past tense...trying to do and so are the other posters. If you think my rhetoric is negative I could really turn loose and show you negative using street prose or the Kings English...but instead I will just forget you as being not quite worth wasting any more time on.

By the way...I have several "smoke poles" all with 1-60 twist for round balls, have taken several head of game with them, they ALL shoot nice cloverleaves when I load right and use the load the rifle likes and even the best shooters go sour sometimes. It doesn't matter what the cartridge was designed for at its inception, this is 100 odd years later and your barrel is rifled for jacketed bullets NOT cast, even though it seems to shoot the right cast bullets just fine. I also have my own 100 M range right next to my reloading cabin and a metal shop right next to that where I can build just about anything relating to this sport, and I can shoot out to 1500 yards by walking or riding 200 yards to my other range, two chronos and so forth...not to say I'm any kind of a gunsmith, metalsmith or expert on anything relating to this sport and there are a lot more people with a lot more knowledge than me populating this forum and some of them have already spoken, but I don't think you were listening.

Bernie1 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 06, 2008, 07:21:05 PM »

I am having trouble with my bc. Having finished up with some jacketed bullet loads that were very good, I could hardly wait to try cast. Have only gotten in one session with them and got rather large groups. Got back home and slugged the bore again and found that it was quite tight in the throat area.( I had only slugged the front end before.) I am thinking about firelapping, but will try more loads first.
You might look for a tight spot in yours. Bernie

littlejack · « **Reply #17 on:** July 08, 2008, 12:54:22 AM »

Gentlemen:
I appologize if I have offended anyone here. This was surly not my intent. I thought I had made it clear that I had tried just about every suggestion that was made by the other posters and other posters on other forums, to get my Buffalo Classic to shoot. I do appreciate all of the suggestions and help from everybody. I suppose there is always something more that can be done and I definately do not pretend to know it all. Thats the reason that I was asking questions.
Apparently I have unwantingly adgitated NFG. He apparently has read all of my posts but did not understand what I was saying. I will no longer post on this thread. I will let NFG continue with his "rhetoric" and "really turn loose" and use his street prose and or the Kings English and show us all how intelligent he is.
I appologize again.
Jack

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #18 on:** July 08, 2008, 01:08:02 AM »

No offense was taken here. I've got a 38-55 that I'm still trying to get tightened up. Hope it doesn't take me as long as you've been working on yours. I might not have the patience you seem to have. $:-\$ DP.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #19 on:** July 08, 2008, 07:10:54 AM »

littlejack:
One poster doesn't make a forum.
Regardless of some of the posts, I have a friend who has gone through almost the same things that you have done to his 2006 BC and it still will not shoot under 4.5" to 6" with any ammo, being factory or handloads period!
The 4.5" load was with PMC 350gr FNSPs at an average of 2147fps.
All other loads tried are in the 6" to 8" range regardless of how the gun is held.
These groups are even scoped!
His bore slugs at .4645.
In contrast, I have a 06 BC that shoots WIN. 300gr HPs into 1.5" to 2" all day and a 07 HANDI with the same ammo that will beat that.
Who knows what H&R/MARLIN/BIG GREEN are doing to these guns. Some shoot and others don't.
Just like changing the twist rate on the 223s to 1 in 9 with out telling anyone.
You have way more patience than I would have with a gun like that.
I have a 50cal. ENCORE muzzle loader that won't shoot under 4" scoped with anything I have tried.
I now own a TRADITIONS PURSUITE XLT that will stay under 1.5" if I do my part.
Sold almost all of my encore stuff!
Enough rambling by me.
Good luck in which ever way you decide to go with your problem.

Like I said "SOME JUST WON"T SHOOT"

LONGTOM

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #20 on:** July 08, 2008, 08:23:59 AM »

LONGTOM,

If your friend has a B/C that slugs at .4645, he should send the SOB back to whoever owns the joint now. That's just damned unacceptable!

Steve P · « **Reply #21 on:** July 09, 2008, 09:36:36 AM »

I have read thru the posts here and it does appear that feelings were hurt. If truly unintentional, I would suggest mutual appologies and letting it go. Lets try to help out on this.

I have a BC that I purchased off this forum. I have held it amorously several times, have received all of the dies and components, but have not fired a shot thru it yet. I have most of my reloading gear packed for a move. If I don't move soon, maybe I will find some of my stuff and get some loads done.

I have a Knight muzzle loader. When I first got it, I couldn't hit the target at 25 yards. Finally got a good set of fiber optic sights, used thread locker on the screws, and confirmed a good sight picture. I worked up to a load that will now cloverleaf at 100 yards if I do my part.

I have a Contender .22 Hornet that would put 55 grain bullets thru the target at 25 yards, but they were going sideways by the time they got there. Worked my way down to 45-50 grain bullets and they shoot moa with open sights out to 100.

You can get some of these "non-shooters" to group once you get the secret potion together. I don't have my 45-70 stuff available as I am at work. Here are a few things that I do recall from my research while waiting for my BC to arrive:
- BCs shoot best with bullets that weight 405 or more.
- BC's shoot best with harder cast bullets (water quenched) about .001-.002" over bore size.
- Accuracy and velocity are most constistant with a nearly full case or use of a fiber wad over the powder.
- Magnum primers are seldom more beneficial to accuracy or consistency with any of the powders used in .45-70 loads.
- The cases can stretch and it is beneficial to trim to same length and use quality crimp on some of the bullets.
- Bullet lube selected can make a difference in amount of smoke and residue left in the barrel. SPG or similar soft lube recommended.
- BC usually have a sweet spot for accuracy when velocity is 1000-1150fps and when velocity is 1650-1800fps.
- if going for the 1800fps sweet spot with 450+ grain bullets, it's gonna hurt.

I am by no means any expert on Handis. I have shot my .223 about a box and Federal American Eagle factory fodder will group in under an inch at 100. I have shot my .17HMR and can keep all shots inside 1/2 scale pigs ear at 100 yards off the bench. Handis can shoot. I expect to get my .45-70 to shoot and I hope anything I have mentioned above will help someone else to get their's to shoot.

Good luck and may your groups shrink as fast as your........well, fast!!

Steve

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 16, 2008, 11:54:35 AM »

Was that last list somewhere in the FAQ's? If it isn't it should be.

handirifle · « **Reply #23 on:** July 17, 2008, 06:37:16 PM »

Well, I gotta say, you have more patience than me. If I waste two or three boxes of ammo on a gun and it doesn't shoot, it's out of my safe forever.

With all you've done, trade it in on something better.

Dust_Remover · « **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2008, 04:52:45 AM »

I couldn't get my handloads to shoot very well in my BC back when I was handloading a lot for it. Of course I was only shooting Blackpowder, and there was some stuff that I wasn't doing that I should have been doing to help accuracy. I believe quickdtoo posted a link to an article that is pretty informative that you may want to check out;

http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/1871.htm

However that's for Blackpowder (which is more fun than smokeless). When i didn't have any satisfactory accuracy, I went with the gold standard of ensuring that it's not completely your handloads. I went with factory BP ammo, and i'm not sure i'll reload for it again, lol. I went from 6-8" @ 50M to .75" at the same distance. I'm going to get back into reloading, but i'm going to take apart a factory round to find out what the secret sauce is.

I can understand your frustration in the rifle, and I would think at this point I would sell the rifle, and get another BC, odds of you getting 2 bad rifles are low I would think. I know it would be a hard decision to get another rifle of the same make and model of one that didn't work for you, but these are great rifles. Look at all the other posts on here of people with positive experiences with their BC's.

Branden

coyotejoe · « **Reply #25 on:** July 19, 2008, 03:43:30 AM »

It's a fact of life that some rifles shoot better than others. People on this site don't want to admit it but in my experience H&Rs are more sketchy than most others. Considering the price, that is not surprising, you can get a lemon in any brand or price range but you'll find a higher percentage of lemons in the lowest price range, like H&R. You've already wasted way too much time and money on that thing, get rid of it and get over it, life is too short to fight a loosing battle.

dodd3 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 22, 2008, 10:08:35 PM »

Quote from: littlejack on July 01, 2008, 09:50:18 AM

Thanks for the replies fella's.
I did clean and dry the shelf and latch. I did slug the bore on the original barrel and on the replacement barrell. The slugged size in the presant barrell is .4575. When I use my cast bullets I size them at .459. When I paper patch the bullets, I size them at .454 and do two wraps with .0025 velum. The bullets wrapped bullets come out at .460.
I have not shot the rifle with out the forend, but will do so.
I have shot the rifle off the bench every way but standing on my head. I have used bags under the front of the forarm, with the bags under the hinge pin and with my hand supporting the forarm between the bags and forarm. I'm not flinching. The rifle didn't shoot any more consistantly with the scope. The action is tight.
I truly wish that you fella's were here to shoot this rifle. If I am doing something wrong, I have no problems in admitting it. I have shot over two thousand rounds through this rifle with the original barrel and one would think that something would come together.
I have a 20" barrelled modlel 44 Moisin-Nagant that I sporterized. It has acheap Bushnell 4x scope on it and it will shoot 1" groups all day at 100 yards with my reloads and me pulling the trigger.
Jack

jack first of all are you holding the trigger back when you shoot as you need to hold it back and not just tuch of the trigger because of the transfer bar,if you are holding the trigger back then here is a way to get it to shoot as a last resort,put a line of talcomepowder along the top of the barrel from just in front of the chamber up to the front sight fire the gun and look at the talcomepowder you will have a patern like this
>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<< i call them waves where the waves stop and go the oposit way is the sweet spot on the barrel ,this sweet spot on 12 buf classics i have seen is from 2" to 5" in front of the forend where your waves stop and go in the oposit direction is your sweet spot put a pice of white tape under the barrel where the sweet spot is,if you can get some x sticks and rest the barrel where the tape is then shoot it will make a lot of diference as that is the spot where barrel vibration is constant it workes my sweet spot is 4" in front of the forend tim has seen my targets when i have shot like that at 400 meters 6"x3-1/2" group with lead cast bullets. give it a try you never no it might work good luck.ps if your sweet spot is over the forend then put some pressure between the barrel and the forend.
bernie

littlejack · « **Reply #27 on:** July 23, 2008, 12:51:37 AM »

Fella's:
I do appreciate all of the suggestions and tips. Yesterday, I sent the rifle back to the factory with a letter of request for my purchase price. I called and talked to Mark Smith about a week ago. He is one of the service department supervisors. He told me that they had to look at the rifle before they could make a decision on what they were going to do. If I can get my money back, I plan on getting one of the Italian 45-70's. Preferably the Pedersoli in either rolling block or high wall. I do not want another H&R rifle. I realize that there are many of the H&R's out there that are shooting like they are supposed to but I have been thourly soured on them with the difficulty of the Buffalo Classic. There is also too many little things one has to do to make them shoot. They're just too damn finiky. I have read too many posts about them not shooting well and especially with cast bullets. Imagine a 45-70 that does not shoot a cast bullet well. What a discrace.
Jack

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #28 on:** July 23, 2008, 03:24:11 AM »

dodd3, that is an intresting idea. If the barrel was shortened to that spot, would you have a shooter then? Something to ponder if I get my boat back today and finally get on with my vacation. DP.

voodoochild · « **Reply #29 on:** July 23, 2008, 03:43:37 PM »

Hi all ! New to GBO. It sounds like the OP may have just gotten a "lemon" although that doesn't explain the acceptable group fired by H&R's shooter. Just bad karma, maybe. I just purchased a BC last week (My first big-bore, fell in love with my cousin's 40-90 Sharps and was hooked). I opened the box, checked the barrel for obstructions,installed the smallest aperture in the Lyman front sight,and fired a 1.75" group at fifty yds. with Win SuperX 300gr.JHP using a front bag and allowing a few minutes of "recuperating time" (remember, it's my first big-bore) between shots. While the rifle was shooting several inches low and to the right,two of those shots made one hole. Satisfied with that, I made adjustments to the Williams rear sight on the go between the next three shots to get the elevation up and then bumped the sight to the left,WAY to the left,and fired a three shot group for record. Another 1.75" group skirting the center bull. Heres the kicker though, between my bad eyes and using that small aperture,I couldn't really see the 1" dia. bull on my target, so I was just sort of guessing where it was without an actual point-of-aim on every shot! My BC seems more than capable,and in the hands of a better shooter would do very nicely, I'm sure. Gonna swap out the rear sight for a Wesson&Harrington ladder,and maybe try my hand at re-loading to see what I get. I'll be shooting again, just as soon as the bruising goes away.....