Author Topic: Ruger Vaquero Accuracy? (Read 5928 times)

GypsmJim · « **on:** February 24, 2008, 05:19:01 AM »

Years ago I had an Interarms Virginian in .45 Colt and eventually traded it for a Blackhawk with adjustable sights. I could never hit the broadside with it because it shot so far off point of aim. The groups were OK but i needed a 3 foot wide target to find the holes...LOL. I still have the Blackhawk and its a joy to shoot.

I've recently come across a couple nice Ruger Vaqueros and am wondering if I would have the same problem! How close to point of aim do most of them shoot?

BlkHawk73 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 24, 2008, 07:16:35 AM »

Can't always blame the gun. If the BH was shooting way off POA and you needed such a large area to find all your hits, then maybe a little different hold or more practice or a different load was needed. Practice is the best part.

as for POA with the fixed sights. Find the preferred laod and go from there. All those I've shot - shot well and to POA or verrry close.

GypsmJim · « **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2008, 07:26:14 AM »

No, the BH is right on. Its the fixed sight model that is way off. That's why I asked the question. I didnt want to get another that wouldn't shoot straight. In the case of the Virginian, I never could find a load that worked, while the BH shoots everything straight.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #3 on:** February 24, 2008, 10:20:49 AM »

they shoot just a straight as a blackhawk, it just takes a tad more work to get them to point of aim. what blkhawk said is fact. Could be that the gun is off a tad but it also could be your shooting habbits. Just because your blackhawk shoots to poa doesnt mean anything other then the sights are ajusted to compensate for your shooting habbits. Its fairly easy to tune a fixed sighted gun to point of aim it usually just takes a touch with a file on top and the barrel turned a tad for windage. About a 30 minute job for an competant gunsmith.

BlkHawk73 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 24, 2008, 11:09:33 AM »

Sorry mis-read the inital post a bit. Going along with what Gb said, twhen filing the front sight, go verrrrry minimal. it's easy to take off but NOT easy to put material back.

GypsmJim · « **Reply #5 on:** February 24, 2008, 01:27:58 PM »

I'm not a master for sure, but I'm not that bad either. The gun in question shot very high and to the left. If I could have filed the front site that would have been dooable. But in this case I needed to add some. I did shoot it in a rest so my bad habits were not the major issue.

Rotating the bbl, reinstalling the front, etc. would cost hundreds of dollars around my neck of the woods. To me that is not cost effective on a gun that cost $450 in the first place.

So I guess that answers my question about Ruger QC.

Now, would a Colt Vaquero typically be better out of the box?

BlkHawk73 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 24, 2008, 01:35:00 PM »

Colt makes the SAA, Ruger makes the Vaquero and new vaquero. That said, again, it's a matter of finding the pet load for the particualr gun. Bullet weight alwaya seems to be a impt facor with these models.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #7 on:** February 25, 2008, 12:49:49 AM »

you need to go to a lighter bullet or increase the velocity of the one your using. that will lower your point of aim. Sometimes you get lucky too and it will change the horizontal point of impact. If you have to turn the barrel and its that expensive go to brownels and buy a barrel vise and do it yourself then resell the barrel vise if its the only gun you think youll need to adjust. You might get away with taking a pair of small vise grips with a rag imbetween the jaws and the sight blade and bending the sight a tad. Again it doesnt take much. Its about a 5050 proposistion as to whether you will break the solder on the sight or not doing it. But if it falls off you can allways have ruger solder it back on. another option is to shoot some groups on paper and put them in the box and send it to ruger. They will probably adjust it for you but again you have to understand that everybody shoots a little differnt and the guy at the factory may have differnt trigger techniques then you do. I love vaqueros. There probably my favorite guns. You could also do what ive done to alot of mine. Ive sent them to clements and had him install a drift adjustable front sight blade. I think it cost in the vacinity of a 100 bucks and he will put a taller blade on it so you can take care of the veriticle problem and still use the load your using. I think his minimum for work now is 200 bucks but it would also be a good time to get an action job and trigger job done on it. I dont know if your willing to invest 200 more into the gun but it would make it a slick semi-custom gun. If all of his sounds like more work then its worth sell it and buy a blackhawk. Vaqueros are much better looking then blackhawks in my opinion but they do take more work and are much better in the hands of a handloader.

Steve P · « **Reply #8 on:** March 01, 2008, 09:31:07 AM »

I second Lloyd's opinion. Change your load. I have two loads for my 45 Vaquero. Both are accurate. One hot load and one mild load. I had to tweek the powder charge up and down a little to get my loads dialed in. The last time out there was an empty shotgun shell box about 25 yards out. I emptied the cylinder 2 times and each shot hit, or hit close enough, to throw that box across the snow. When I went out to pick up my garbage it was out at 74 paces. Work on your loads, your hand grip, your squeeze, and your follow thru. You will get there.

Steve

Hawk-in-Wi · « **Reply #9 on:** March 02, 2008, 09:01:37 AM »

shot these today , the 45lc where shot out of my 7 1/2" Vaquero at 15 yards , not a very good group but it was shooting just below POA , load was UltraMax 200 gr lead cowboy load

the rest where shot with my 32 H&R mag Single Six ( baby Vaquero fixed sights ) range again was 15 yards , all where shot standing , 2 handed , no rest , as you can see all 3 loads shot pretty close to point of aim

boy i hate to say it but that darn front sight is getting to hard to see any more

mjbgalt · « **Reply #10 on:** February 03, 2009, 12:09:03 PM »

you shot your dog and cat?!

-Matt

AtlLaw · « **Reply #11 on:** February 03, 2009, 01:56:24 PM »

Quote from: Hawk-in-Wi on March 02, 2008, 09:01:37 AM

shot these today , the 45lc where shot out of my 7 1/2" Vaquero at 15 yards , all where shot standing , 2 handed , no rest ,

Man! And I thought I was one cold dude!

jimster · « **Reply #12 on:** February 03, 2009, 02:00:51 PM »

If you have a favorite load in your favorite caliber, that is a really hard thing to give up. I vote for making a fixed sight gun shoot your favorite load.
If you go to the trouble to do this, you'll probably never part with that fixed sighted gun that shoots your pet load to the point of aim. I have got lucky with a couple of fixed sighted guns...but very few. Sounds to me like a dove tailed front sight is the way to go, I can't find a smith in these parts that can do the simple task of turning a barrel a little bit. Might have to buy a barrel vice someday, but sheesh...like Lloyd said, it's a half hour job for a guy that's not shy about it. For what it's worth, one of the few revolvers I bought with fixed sights that did shoot to point of aim with my favorite load was a Ruger Vaquero, that was pure luck in my opinion.

Bill of Ojai · « **Reply #13 on:** February 04, 2009, 08:05:12 AM »

Using a kitty for a bench rest is just not that stable. Could account for the wide group spread.

Keith L · « **Reply #14 on:** February 04, 2009, 08:41:41 AM »

I would have thought the kitty was better than the Lab...

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #15 on:** February 04, 2009, 09:29:45 AM »

stomp the cat but leave that purdy dog alone or ill come visit

Sverre A. · « **Reply #16 on:** February 06, 2009, 08:08:38 AM »

I bought a Vaquero and a Bisley in 45 LC - some years ago.

The Bisley was of course no problem at all (not fixed sights).

The Vaquero (fixed sights) was high and left (6" at 30 yds).

I contacted the store where I bought it - and they let their gunsmith adjust it sideways - because I was sure that I would not shoot more to the right (not 6") - no matter what powder/bulletweight I choosed.

The height - was adjusted with the right bullet weight.

teddy12b · « **Reply #17 on:** February 06, 2009, 10:34:02 AM »

When your vaquero shoots off target, are the groupings good?

I've read good things about the vaquero's, but I have to admit I'd probably go with the adjustable sight of the super Blackhawk.

jimster · « **Reply #18 on:** February 06, 2009, 12:32:45 PM »

For what it's worth, if you buy a USFA it is very, very likely it will shoot to POA with a standard load. USFA tends to worry about such things when they build them. To stay close to the price range of a Ruger you would have to go with a Rodeo with the mat finish.
My USFA is another of the very few revolvers I've bought that shoots where the sights are.

Sverre A. · « **Reply #19 on:** February 13, 2009, 12:47:19 PM »

"When your vaquero shoots off target, are the groupings good?"

Lyman 325 gr/H110-21 gr. is about 2,5"/25 yds

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #20 on:** February 14, 2009, 01:13:54 AM »

one option is to shoot a couple test targets and send it to ruger and let them adjust it. they will do it for free. It will just cost you the price of shipping it.

DanChamberlain · « **Reply #21 on:** February 14, 2009, 02:32:21 AM »

Once I have found my load, I do all my sight corrections with a file, both windage and elevation, or with bullet weight and powder selection.

However, I just bought this revolver used at a local gun shop. The original owner couldn't get it to shoot to point of aim, so he had a taller front sight dovetailed in. Don't know why he sold it. It's a freaking shooter! Off hand at 25 yards, I turned in a 2.75 inch group and one rested that measured a little under 2".

Of course, the group was 6" low and 5" to the left, but that's not a problem. Once I work up my load, I tap the front sight over a tad to the left and file down the front sight.

Dan

Flash · « **Reply #22 on:** February 14, 2009, 06:19:11 AM »

In my opinion,a handgun with unadjustable sights is as worthless as tits on a Bull. Buy a Blackhawk!!

DanChamberlain · « **Reply #23 on:** February 14, 2009, 07:11:48 AM »

Flash, there is no such thing as a handgun with sights that cannot be adjusted. Even "fixed" sights have the potential to be adjusted to a particular load. As for being "worthless," firearms history would suggest that opinion to be baseless.

People, being creatures of habit, seldom deviate from that which works for them. Even avid reloaders, once they have discovered a sweet load, are loathe to explore another that will require they make adjustments to their preferred settings. I'd bet - if you were to query many avid handgunners - you'd find significantly more who have settled on a particular load for a given application and hardly ever try something new with that particular weapon.

I had a Colt SAA in .45 Colt that would strike a 6" plate at 80 yards every time I pulled the trigger on that target. The load - using Unique and a 250 grain cast lead bullet - chronoed at 900fps from a 4 5/8 inch barrel. Why would I deviate from that load, for any reason? What could I hope to accomplish with that weapon, that couldn't be done with that load?

These groups were fired with two different brands of .22lr ammo in a Ruger Single Six that has "fixed" but a drift adjustable rear sight. Either group would be perfect for squirrel or rabbit after I drift the rear sight. Why do I need anything else? I'd bet that I could pick up nearly any box of standard velocity .22lr ammo and be able to make it hit to POA with a few moments at the bench and a brass drift punch.

Both of these squirrels were head shot at about 10 yards with this Bearcat which shoots its ammo to POA. I'd suggest that they wouldn't claim my gun to be worthless.

This squirrel was taken with a headshot from 10 steps with a .36 Navy cap and ball revolver that has only a bead front sight and a notch carved in the hammer nose. It shoots to POA - after I did a little tweaking. How much better could it be?

It's all relative.

Dan

Flash · « **Reply #24 on:** February 14, 2009, 09:26:47 AM »

I had an old model Single Six Magnum that shot to point of aim too but for that one, I seen dozzens that would have been better used as a hammer. I can zero my handguns in seconds without files, chisels, grinders, etc. I simply use a tiny screwdriver. Nostalgia is nice but always out-dated, by definition.

Graybeard · « **Reply #25 on:** February 14, 2009, 10:07:05 AM »

Practically every fixed sight revolver I've ever owned shot way left for me. For that matter so do most adjustable sight guns until I adjust the sights. Most also shoot quite a bit high or low and that does vary gun to gun.

I find it difficult to shoot as good a groups with fixed sights as compared to good adjustable sights because for me they just don't offer as good a sight picture but then lotsa guns with adjustable sights have a lousy front sight that gives a poor sight picture also. I prefer a patridge front to any other I've ever tried.

Single action guns with fixed sights and here I mean every one from every manufacturer I've ever owned and that's several have shot left so far as to make the gun basically useless to me. The one and ONLY one exception was a Ruger Bearcat I owned long long ago. It actually shot to point of aim. Folks have assured me it is me not the gun. To that I say baloney only to be nice as I'd say something a bit stronger other wise.

It matters not if I shoot them held in two hands, one handed right hand or one handed left hand the group position on target remains consistent. It ain't me. It's the dang guns. I'd love to have a nice single action even with fixed sights in both .45 Colt and .44 Special that actually hit to POA for me to play around with and tote in the woods but after owning well over a hundred of them I've not found that magic one that does yet. I suppose I should just give up and let someone tune one for me to shoot where I look but am loathe to spend my money on such when I can just buy an adjustable sight gun and be done with it.

DanChamberlain · « **Reply #26 on:** February 14, 2009, 03:55:08 PM »

Flash:

You're conclusion: "Nostalgia is nice but always out-dated, by definition."

A phrase comes to mind: "Horse Crap!"

Do you know how many combat pistols are marketed each year that have only fixed sights on them? It has nothing at all to do with nostalgia. It has to do with being nearly indestructable, and fool proof. Yes, it takes a tad more work, but the results cannot be argued with logically.

I understand your point about convenience; however, your comment about "worthlessness" is too easily debated. Like I said. It's all realitive. Some people don't mind a little effort to achieve satisfaction. Some want satisfaction to come easy. But just because you might like a particular feature for its convenience, doesn't mean all other features are worthless.

Regards

Dan

DanChamberlain · « **Reply #27 on:** February 14, 2009, 04:10:37 PM »

Graybeard

What do you do with a fine revolver, that won't shoot to point of aim for you? And, why is it, one must pay someone else to tweak a gun to get it to hit where they are pointing?

I have a friend whom I refer to as a human Ramsom rest. He's left handed. When he picks up a gun that I've regulated to hit point of aim for me, whether fixed or adjustable sights, he hits to the right of my point of aim and there are few people alive who I believe could outshoot him. Likewise, when I pick up a firearm that he has regulated to hit POA for him, I hit to the left, being right handed.

You can say baloney all you want. It doesn't change the incontrovertable fact that the mechanics of the hand-held firearm, mated to the skeleton, supported by the muscles or the arm, will cause a firearm to strike to different points of impact for different people, with different hand sizes, different handedness, different stances, different muscle mass etc! One gun cannot be manufactured, that will magically group around the sights when fired in anything but a mechanical rest. Once removed from that rest, all bets are off. Some "sighting" is generally going to have to be made. Of course, adjustable sights make that a simpler task. How many adjustable sighted pistols do you have, in which the rear sight is absolutely centered on the topstrap?

By the way, as an aside, perhaps I've mistaken you for someone else, but haven't you stated on this forum to the effect that you are not particularly a fan of Ruger firearms? I'm trying to recall whether it was you or someone else who has had a significant run of bad luck with Rugers.

Dan

timothy · « **Reply #28 on:** February 15, 2009, 07:01:33 AM »

How do you explain the fact that the ransom rest shoots to the the same poa as my adjustable sighted guns that I adjusted to suit me? There is a standard when sights are properly aligned and trigger correctly pulled. A gun hitting a foot left at 25 yards isnt going to be remedied by muscular skeletal variables. I dont know why people are so willing to forgive the manfacturers these days. I could say ''I have a ruger that hits 7 yards left at 15 yards'' and sure enough someone will say ''try a different bullet weight''.

DanChamberlain · « **Reply #29 on:** February 15, 2009, 08:04:19 AM »

Timothy,

You are entirely correct, that for most experienced shooters who do not exhibit flinch and manage to keep their eyes open and grasp the grip properly, and support the firearm adequately and control the trigger appropriately, a foot of windage variance is entirely too much and is more than likely a problem with the firearm. But several inches at 25 yards is entirely possible if one or several of the aforementioned variables are lacking.

If you are shooting to the same point of aim with a firearm that is placed in a ransom rest, you are undoubtedly a very precise shooter, who has mastered the mechanics. I'm certain both Graybeard and Flash are as well. At the same time, whether it be S&W, Colt, Ruger, Sprinfield, Beretta, Sig, Glock, Walther and a host of other pistol brands I've owned and/or fired, I have yet to purchase one with fixed or adjustable sights, that wouldn't shoot acceptably well right out of the box, or at least let me know that I could zero it with room to spare on the rear sight or with a minimum of effort if the sight was fixed. I don't believe I'm charmed with luck. I believe; however, that many other people quickly blame a gun when there is something else afoot and a little experimentation will uncover the truth.

I wouldn't cut a manufacturer any slack if I experienced an accuracy issue that could be blamed on the gun. Ruger has a reputation for having tight chamber throats in their .45 Colt chambered sixguns. This results in less accuracy than many would like to have. On the other hand, my tightly throated Ruger Bisley seems to throw 255 grain semi-wadcutters into 6" at 50 yards "off hand" using a good modified Weaver with monotonous regularity. I can get 4" on a really good day if I don't flinch too badly and lean against a post.

I just do not have any complaints yet.

I'm not against adjustable sights. I own a bunch of them. I'm just not afraid of fixed sights and have not experienced all the troubles and tribulations that seem common for some people.

Regards

Dan