Author Topic: 7MM-08 versus 30-06 (Read 3762 times)

bukfevr · « **on:** February 12, 2007, 03:39:07 PM »

I have been pondering the idea of a little gun swapping. I own a wood stocked Remington 700 ADL in 270 now. I have been thinking about trading it for a Remington 700 CDL in 30-06 or a Remington Model Seven in 7MM-08. I can't make up my mind which of these would be the best bet. The gun will be used in Western Virginia for whitetail. Any suggestions or info is appreciated.

banen · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2007, 04:08:51 PM »

I like the short action, but also like the 30 cal. Personally I always go for a .308 but I'd say a 7-08 is the next best thing. Probably most guys would prefer the 7-08 over the 308. Do the Model 7. Nice light compact rifle, can't go wrong.

Zachary · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2007, 04:20:31 PM »

The 7mm-08 has to be the ideal whitetail cartridge. Plenty of power, low recoil, inherant accuracy from the .308 case..what more could you ask for?

As for rifles, the only thing that I don't like about the M7 is its 20" barrel. If you want a really light rifle, then look at the Kimber Montana in 7mm-08 (I think it's the Model 84). It has a 22" barrel, glass bedded, and match grade barrel and trigger.

Zachary

bukfevr · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2007, 05:00:44 PM »

I have been leaning toward the 7MM-08, but wanted some opinions on the subject to help make up my mind. I'll have to check out the Kimber. Sounds good.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2007, 01:27:31 AM »

I would just keep what you have, all three rounds you described will do the job and do it well. But If you are like me, I trade guns like people change underwear. If you can afford too, keep the 270 and get the 7mm08 also. Just an idea.

Eagle Eye · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2007, 04:28:48 AM »

WHile I am partial to the 30-06, I agree with going to the 7mm-08 for what you are hunting and where. I suggest you avoid the 308 in a Rem Model 7....they have too much mussel jump for my liking.

Rather than a Remington Model 7, have a close look at the Remington 700 Mountain Rifle. It is available in either matte blue with a detachable mag or stainless steel with a nice laminated stock. Very trim and light. In many way similar to a Model 7 but they have a 22" barrel. Much better balance and still compact and great in the woods. Good triggers (once adjusted for weight and overtravel), good fit/finish and Bettter looking too. Much cheaper than Kimber.

Ahab · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2007, 05:03:39 AM »

Late last year I wanted to get a Kimber 7mm-08. Perchance led me to The Ruger M77 Whitetail which was a little over half the price. 20" barrel, Target Gray SS/syn stock, and the new trigger. Being the miser that I am I bought it. Nice and light, it will be my Mountain gun. Fitted it with a Zeiss 3x9. Did well accuracy wise out of the box and the new trigger is sweet. It likes the Nosler 150gr but I have yet to try heavier bullets.

Prophet · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2007, 05:54:03 AM »

I think that remington makes the 7-08 in the CDL as well as the mountain rifle. I've had them both. Last year I bought a Kimber Montana 7-08 and I have not looked back. I hunt Whitetail in AL and SC using Federal 140 gr Solid Base bullets. They do a remarkable job from 40 yards to 165 yards (this year). The 7-08 will do whatever you need it to do for deer. I would not hesitate to take a 200 yd plus shot if conditions were right. What ever you get put a premium scope on top and you will find a rifle that is so much fun to carry and shoot. It is not a 30-06 never was never meant to be but it is an awsome deer caliber.

Cement Man · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2007, 06:21:43 AM »

Bukfvr,
Looks like you are a Remington man, so sticking with your choices, here's my $.02 -
For whitetail hunting in your area, I think the model 7 in 7-08 is a near perfect combination. Velocity loss in that cartridge is negligible with nominally 2" less barrel, shorter barrels can be arguably somewhat stiffer, certainly lighter and handier for walking in stuff, totin', and climbing. Most all of my deer rifles for east of the Mississippi have slightly shortened barrels either by design or by gunsmith and for some reason, the improvement in handiness seems disproportionate to the actual reduction in length. 7-08 approaches perfection as a whitetail cartridge, if it isn't perfection. JMHO

Actually, I like Redhawk's suggestion too, keep the .270 and get the 7-08! Any of the options you mentioned would work just fine.

jasonprox700 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2007, 07:12:39 AM »

I would opt for the 7mm-08. You get less recoil and it would be a great selection for you hunting conditions. If you already have a .270, all it is is an '06 necked down.

Ratltrap · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2007, 07:36:13 AM »

I have both. I'd agree with those saying the 7-08 is probably all you need if what you propose is the only hunting you'll do. My 7-08 is in a mountain rifle configuration (22" light contour barrel, glass stock, 6x42 Leupold), but for your use the Model 7 (or another compact like an A-Bolt micro hunter or Ruger Whitetail) might make more sense. Haven't seen a SA Kimber up close yet.

If you ever wanted to go after bigger game the '06 would get the nod. With those 2 along with my 375 H&H I just match game size to caliber and I can hunt anywhere in the world and have a good match across the battery on trajectory.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #11 on:** February 13, 2007, 07:46:13 AM »

I happen to have a model 7 in 7-08 with a 2x7 scope on it. If there is a better deer rifle (that includes mulies) I've yet to find it.

Eagle Eye · « **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2007, 09:08:39 AM »

Quote from: beemanbeme on February 13, 2007, 07:46:13 AM

I happen to have a model 7 in 7-08 with a 2x7 scope on it. If there is a better deer rifle (that includes mulies) I've yet to find it.

Well, have you tried a Rem 700 Mountain rifle?

I definately think they are better....I have owned both and feel the Mtn is a much better buy than the Modle 7. Here is why: they are trimmer in profile to the Model 7 and therefore handle better and carry better. They balance much better when shouldered thanks to the slightly longer barrel. Because of the 2" of extra barrel, you also get more velocity and less barrel jump. 2" of more length is not a big deal for woods hunting either. And lastly, the Mtn Rifle is available in long action as well as short action calibers.

Cement Man · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2007, 07:30:05 PM »

Eagle Eye,
The Mountain Rifle and the Model 7 both weigh in right at 6.5 lbs. The Model 7 is right at 2" shorter. I weighed two of my 2" barrel "cutoffs" from other rifles I had shortened, they weighed just under 2 oz. each. Barrels of these contours weigh about an ounce per inch in 7-08. I don't find the shorter rifle's balance to be affected negatively at all by 2 oz. less of barrel length/weight, in fact I distinctly prefer the shorter rifle's handling characteristics. (Of course that is what I buy or make them like that for.)
Comparing my chrono records, admittedly not a huge database, but also one of my shooting buddy's, we came up wiith an overall average difference in MV between 20" and 22" barrels to be 55 fps, handloads and factory loads combined in the mix. 7-08 with 140 grains average somewhere around 2800 fps. I don't think that the (average) 55 fps makes any measurable difference in effectiveness whatsoever. Depending on your loads or ammo YMMV. As far as muzzle jump goes - I simply don't see any significant difference, especially with the 7-08. Now, I have 2 '06's with 20" barrels, 2 .308's with 20" barrels, and a Ruger 77 International .308 with an 18.5" barrel - maybe I'm just insensitive. I own more rifles with longer barrels than shorter barrels (up to 29")BTW, so I do have a basis for comparison. I just do not have muzzle jump issues with a .7-08 @ 20" barrel length.
As far as 2" of barrel length not being a big deal in the woods, I must admit I ponder that issue a lot. It does seem that it should be less significant when I think about it. How can that extra 2" make such a difference? It is indeed probably more subjective than absolute, but the fact of the matter is that it is a big deal to me.
I prefer the shorter versions for whitetails in the usual eastern terrain. To me they handle better. One other aspect some others may or may not have any use for, is that there is a somewhat lesser possibility of getting snow in the barrel. I hunt a lot in Wisconsin and Minnesota, often in quite a bit of snow, and the shorter rifle is somewhat less likely to get the muzzle dipped in snow.
Anyway your post caused me to look up the Mountain Rifle - I hadn't really looked at them before. Nice Rifles. I think I might get one and cut the barrel down.

Just kidding - I'd probably like one in a .270 and I'd leave the barrel alone and hunt out west with it.
It's nice to have so many fine rifles to talk about.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2007, 11:44:15 PM »

Quote from: Redhawk1 on February 13, 2007, 01:27:31 AM

I would just keep what you have, all three rounds you described will do the job and do it well. But If you are like me, I trade guns like people change underwear. If you can afford too, keep the 270 and get the 7mm08 also. Just an idea.

Got to agree with Redhawk1......long before the 7mm/08 was mainstreamed, the .270 was thought of by many as the perfect deer caliber. Nothing has really changed......the .270 remains one of the great deer calibers......... If you can afford to, why not keep it and get the other rifle also?

Zachary · « **Reply #15 on:** February 14, 2007, 03:13:44 AM »

I certainly agree that the .270 is an all-time favorite of many hunters, and a great choice for whitetails. In fact, I don't think that Buckfever is dispute that either. Instead, it appears that he is just interested in getting another gun - in his case, either a .30-06, or a 7mm-08. Between THOSE two choices, although the .30-06 is a true all purpose cartrdige, which is more than suitable for whitetails, I recommended the 7mm-08 as it has plenty of power, yet without the added recoil (and in some models - the added weight) of the '06.

I own several cartridges, and have used most of them on whitetails. However, the 7mm-08 is my personal favorite for whitetails.

I have a good feeling that if Buckfever handles a Kimber Montana M84 in 7mm-08 with a glass beeded synthetic stock and stainless match grade 22" barrel, he is going to fall in love with it - just like I did with my Kimber.

Zachary

Eagle Eye · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2007, 04:47:46 AM »

Cement Man ......certainly it is a subjective issue but I also find the Rem 7 is too fat through the action area. The Mtn Rifle is slimer and has a better overall feel. You may not notice barrel jump with a 140 from a 7mm-08 but try a Model 7 with stout 308 180 gr loads and you'll see why i don't go there anymore.

deerman12 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 14, 2007, 04:54:54 AM »

I just can't help it, I have to jump in. I had never had a 7mm-08 until about 3 years ago. I used to trade deer rifles every year just for something to do. I have several rifles for deer but my favorite is the remington model 7 in 7mm-08. It carries great and I love its performance on whitetails. If I had to keep only one(god forbid), it would probably be this one. I had always liked the model 7's(.243 and 308), but the 7mm-08 seems near perfect for my kind of deer hunting here in Missouri.

I agree with Zachary. I have handled the Kimber montana 7mm-08 that seemed great. I bought a Kimber 270 WSM Montana a couple of years ago. I do like this rifle very much. It seems a little over kill for the whitetails around here.

jro45 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 14, 2007, 05:22:17 AM »

My self I would prefir the 30/06. It can shoot the 130 gr bullets at about 3100 or 3200 FPS. I done this.

YankeeBill · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2007, 05:38:04 AM »

I agree with the others as well in that the .270 and 30-06 are both fine calibers, and are obviously quite capable of efficiently taking whitetails.

I hunt the Western part of VA. also, and I have used the 30-06 and a host of other cartridges over the years, mainly the typical "brush hunting" calibers such as the .35 Rem. & .375 Win. and all have cleanly and effectivly taken deer and served the purpose well.

With that said, for the last several years my go to rifle for hunting the Blueridge Mtns. has been my Mod. 7 in 7/08, which IMHO is as good a rifle and cal. combo as you can get for hunting in those conditions.

Just a few of the reasons I like this gun are; it's extremely accurate, light weight, compact, and has great pointability, all of which also make it an outstanding treestand rifle as well. Not to mention that the recoil is very managable, even in this short/light package, and it will put any whitetail on the planet down with authority. This little rifle has done everything I have ever asked of it, and has done it quite well. It has quickly and cleanly taken deer from as close as 15 ft., on out to 300 yds.. For my needs, I just couldn't ask for anything more.

Best of luck with what ever you choose. But just remember that what ever weapon any of us hunt with, the old saying " it ain't the arrow, it's the Indian " still holds true

Oh yeah, here's another reason I like this rifle

YB

Cement Man · « **Reply #20 on:** February 14, 2007, 06:12:02 AM »

YB - nice!.......... rifle and deer.

YankeeBill · « **Reply #21 on:** February 14, 2007, 11:26:11 AM »

Thanks Cement Man, appreciate the complliment

Bukfevr, I'd like to add that I have never had any issues with muzzle jump w/ my mod. 7 either.

As far as barrel legnth goes, well, that's as much dictated by the type of terrain you will be hunting, as it is personal preference.

My personal preference would be If you are going to be hunting mainly food plots, fields and power lines etc. then I would get a 22-24" bbl.

If it will strictly be a woods rifle for use in treestands and heavy brush then I'd go with a 20" bbl.
And if it were to be used mainly as a woods rifle, and only ocassionally for long shots (>300 yds.) I would still go w/ a 20" bbl.

The velocity difference between a 22" and 20" bbl. is < 200 fps. which, when shooting a whitetail at 4 feet or 400 yds. with a 7/08, won't amount to a hill of beans.

Another rifle you may want to look at is the Tikka line. They have a T-3 Lite Synthetic stock that weighs 6#3oz. w/ a 22 7/8" bbl.. Most are tack drivers and guarenteed to shoot MOA or better right out of the box, arguablly the best factory triggers on the market and they're priced a good bit cheaper than the mod.7 as well. (if you haven't visited there yet you might want to check out the Sako / Tikka forum here, lots of good info).

I just purchased their wood/blue model in 7/08 to use as a med. range rig (>200yds.) for fields n' such so I can keep my mod. 7 set up as a dedicated woods rifle (got it pulling double duty at the moment).

If I had to do it all over again, and I were able to only have one rifle to hunt the VA. Mtns., with a possible 300 yd. shot thrown in here and there, I would opt for a Tikka T-3 Lite and have the bbl. bobbed to 20".

Just my .02.

Best of luck with what ever you choose!

YB

kyelkhunter3006 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 14, 2007, 01:58:12 PM »

Hmmm.... Unless you need the power, you'll use and shoot the 7mm-08 more than the 30-06. I like the model 7 rifles quite a bit myself, they are probably the best "deer" rifle you'll find from the factory. I can't tell any difference between the 700 MTN rifle and a model 7, and I've had both. I don't think that 2" will make any difference in muzzle jump, it MIGHT make a diifference in muzzle blast. Redhawk's got a good idea about keeping your rifle and just buying another one, if you are able to do that. Kimber's are NICE rifles, although the barrel is tad on the thin side for me. Of course, you can buy the model 7 and a darn nice scope for the price of the Kimber.

I wouldn't worry about the length of the barrel. That's one of the most un-important things in a hunting rifle. So you lose 100 fps with a shorter barrel. So what? Ok, it drops an inch more at 400 yds. How often are you going to shoot at 400 yds?

As for short barrels being handy in the brush, I see a lot of people dragging shotguns with 26"-30" barrels throught the woods all of time for small game, turkey's, and what not. No one ever complains about a shotgun barrel being a pain in the woods, but there's a ton of whining about rifle barrels.

You do a lot more "snap" shooting with a shotgun than with a rifle. The barrel length of the rifle doesn't mean a thing, since you are generally taking your time for a deliberate shot. I've dragged rifles with barrels from 18" to 28" through the woods, and I can't tell you that the short barrel made a difference with ease of getting along. Especially with the rifle in your hands, where it belongs while you're hunting. I find that a barrel with no sights to snag on brush makes the biggest difference in the woods. Ok, I'm done wiith my rant.

Get the rifle you like the best and don't worry about it!

bukfevr · « **Reply #23 on:** February 14, 2007, 02:49:54 PM »

OK, I'm probably going to go Saturday and see what I can find locally. I want to check out the Tikka and that Kimber. I have been to the local gun shop three times this month looking at the Model 7 CDL in 7-08. I want to compare it with the others. I was talking to a co-worker today who owns a Model 7 in 260 and when I told him I was looking at one his first reaction was "that gun's to little for you with those long arms". I'm 6'4" with a fairly long reach. Anyone have any issues with the stock being too short at the forearm?? He said "your left hand won't even be on the stock, it'll be on the barrell ahead of the forearm". I think he's exaggerating alot as I have handled this rifle, but he's kinda got me worried, too. Opinions on this??

kyelkhunter3006 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 14, 2007, 03:01:33 PM »

I don't see how the length of the forearm will affect you in any way. If anything, you should be able to support the gun better, because your arm won't be over-extended trying to hold onto the gun. If the length of pull on the buttstock is too short, then just about any other rifle will be too. There are plenty of tall people in England and Europe, and shorter forearms are standard, especially on the older English rifles.

boommer · « **Reply #25 on:** February 14, 2007, 04:36:59 PM »

TO me if you have one larger game rifle and you hunt north america the ougt-6 is the cartridge to have 110-GR to 220 GR load up load down and to jack that round any faster because it's a shorter action and the little bit of weight on the rifle on along action. ougt-6 has
not been strong for a 100 years not for the heck of it It just gets the job done !! just my opinion!

Casull · « **Reply #26 on:** February 14, 2007, 04:40:42 PM »

What's all this talk about 30'06 recoil? What recoil?

YankeeBill · « **Reply #27 on:** February 14, 2007, 06:06:24 PM »

Like most all other things in life it all boils down to personal preference, and what works best for you and your needs. I don't think that you'll find the physical size of a mod. 7 to be an issue for you, but you should be able to easily tell that by handeling one.

As far as barrel legnth goes and ease of handeling, well, I'd have to disagree with Kyelkhunter on that issue. I've hunted both large and small game with barrels up to 30" as well, and Personally, I find that in heavy brush and even more so when hunting out of a Boxed blind, Boxed treestand, and even a portable treestand, depending on the particular tree it is situated in, an extra 2 " of barrel legnth is definately more cumbersome and hindering than a shorter version.

If you really think about it, the whole purpose behind shorter barrels on a hunting rifle is increased manuverability and ease of handeling in tight spots, it certainly does not provide any ballistic advantages.

I dunno, I know I'm getting older, maybe I'm starting to get shorter too

and that's why I like my rifles short for the types of hunting I just stated. But that's just my opinion.

Try handeling a few different guns and see what feels best for you, that's what really matters.
We all tend to be passionate about our favorite types of guns, but heck it ain't rocket science either, when it comes right down to it, any of the guns previously mentioned, including the ones you already have will be more than adequate for what you need them to do.

Best wishes,

YB

bukfevr · « **Reply #28 on:** February 15, 2007, 12:27:18 AM »

I've never had any length of pull problems with any of my rifles, so I'm sue the Model 7 will prove the same. I am pretty sure my co-worker is just blowing smoke, just checking you guys experience on stock length. Just seems around here, the Model 7 has always been considered a youth and small stature adult rifle. It's starting to catch on now as a rifle for seasoned hunters and anyone else who wants a short action, light handy rifle.

kudzu · « **Reply #29 on:** February 15, 2007, 02:10:28 AM »

Have ya looked at the mod. 7 XCR Camo. Looks like a baby Sendero with the SS fluted barrel. That would be my pick if going for a "smaller" framed gun. Then again I'm a sucker for SS/Camo.

Good Luck ,DM

ps, also has the new X mark trigger, don't know if that 's good or not. Hav'nt seen much on them yet.