Author Topic: Metal Fume Fever Revisited (Read 1836 times)

Evil Dog · « **on:** October 02, 2006, 04:50:09 AM »

Seems to me I recall a thread on this a fairly long time ago. Metal Fume Fever is primarily associated with Zinc, breathing the fumes is not a particularly good thing to do. After this past weekend, I think that Lead also qualifies. Normally I do my casting in a fairly well ventilated shed outside with no problem at all. This weekend though I made up about 1500 .610 round ball in my travel trailer... not particularly well ventilated. Didn't think much about it at the time, but should have worn a N100 respirator. Metal Fume Fever is pretty much like a good case of the flu... fortunately it only lasts 24 to 48 hours though. Guess I will know better next time.

Santa Dave · « **Reply #1 on:** October 02, 2006, 08:17:13 AM »

I would suspect that the fever is from zinc. Uncontaminated lead is very hard to find. Weigh one of your lead .610 balls, if it weighs less than .0477 then you have a lead zinc mix.
Strange note: When I was a kid I wanted to make a battery and looked for months for zinc, all I could find was lead. Now it's the other way.
85 days 'til Christmas!

Santa Dave

freddo · « **Reply #2 on:** October 03, 2006, 06:48:58 AM »

Been there done that.Eight hours in Hospital on pure oxygen.Its bloody dangerous to melt metals in a poorly ventilated area.

Double D · « **Reply #3 on:** October 03, 2006, 07:26:50 AM »

What was your heat source? Could you have suffered from a slight case of carbon monoxide poisoning?

Rickk · « **Reply #4 on:** October 03, 2006, 09:09:50 AM »

I know when I am in the mood to make handgun bullets, I cast several thousand at a time. I have two pots and two - 6 cavity molds going, alternating between them.

I do it out in my shed, with a garage type door and a side door both open.

There have been times where I have had a headache afterwords that didn't go away untill the next morning. A metallic taste in the mouth is another sign that you are probably getting to much exposure.

Sometimes on still days I now will put a window "box" fan turned to "low" blowing air out the side door to make sure the fumes prefer to go away rather than towards me.

Evil Dog · « **Reply #5 on:** October 03, 2006, 09:44:52 AM »

This was with an RCBS bottom pour electric pot and a single cavity mold. First time that I have ever cast in the travel trailer and will probably be my last.

Casting at home is with the same setup but in a much larger and more ventilated area.... well, casting with lead anyway. When casting with zinc it is a 9 pound cast iron pot over a large propane burner.

I think that before doing any more casting of either type, a trip to the local hardware store would be in order for either a N100 or P100 respirator mask.

Rickk · « **Reply #6 on:** October 03, 2006, 01:03:56 PM »

If you cast 1500 balls with a single cavity mould, you were doin it for a while, wern't ya?

Evil Dog · « **Reply #7 on:** October 03, 2006, 05:44:33 PM »

Uh... yea..... spent a goodly part of the weekend breathing hot lead. It's a 20 pound pot and I would usually cast either 200 or 250 ball in a session. Take a break for a couple hours and then refill the pot and start again. Will have to admit that it was a lot more productive than sitting here surfing porn. Picked up an Albuterol inhaler today, that seems to help. Have noticed that my heart rate it up a bit more than usual though. Sure is a lot easier to breathe now and am no longer running a 102 temp. Talk about being stupid, won't be doing that again for sure. Will even be using a N100 respirator mask out in the shed which is a lot more well ventilated than the travel trailer.

GGaskill · « **Reply #8 on:** October 04, 2006, 09:45:22 PM »

Might be worth some professional attention even if the symptoms appear to be ameliorating.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #9 on:** October 05, 2006, 12:51:56 AM »

As a guess (put this into the same category as all the other back-room lawyer stuff) I'd say it's not the lead. One has to get up to about 900dF or so to get much lead into the air. Still pleanty of other crud though. A cousin of mine (neurosurgeon) spent a career dealing with lead poisening. The only thing he found that mitigated the effect of lead was vitamin C. FWIW

Evil Dog · « **Reply #10 on:** October 05, 2006, 08:37:02 AM »

Of course having been a smoker for 40 years (I finally quit 6 years ago.... cigarettes were just getting too expensive and I was having a lot of trouble breathing..... so I quit, saved a bunch of money, put on 50 pounds and now have a lot of trouble breathing due to the buda-belly) might have something to do with it too. Sure did used to love those short ol' Lucky Strikes. Was over to see my Dr about a different matter on Monday and mentioned it to her. Using an Albuterol Inhaler now and it has made quite a bit of difference. There is little doubt in my mind that I have COPD or Emphysema from all those years of smoking and should probably we going around teathered to one of those little green tanks on my side.... have just never been so diagnosed.... and don't particularly want to be. Yes, the wife is right..... most men will have to be about half dead before they will ever go see a doctor.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #11 on:** October 05, 2006, 09:40:00 AM »

So have you set goals as to how far/how long to walk each day to build back your cardio-vascular capability?

(I need to do it too.)

Evil Dog · « **Reply #12 on:** October 05, 2006, 03:26:54 PM »

Hey Cat.... by trade I am a Surgical Tech..... pick a 2 x 3 foot area and stand there for 3 or more hours..... sure get plenty of exercise that way !!!! My main goal should be to lose some weight.... have been pushing 250 for way too long now Increasingly longer walks would certainly be one way to achieve that, but like a lot of us 60 year old couch potatoes I just somehow never seem to find the time.... or do it longer than just a couple of days. One can always fantacize though.

GGaskill · « **Reply #13 on:** October 05, 2006, 09:40:06 PM »

We all need to do it (60 in December.)

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #14 on:** October 06, 2006, 12:54:30 AM »

This sounds like the start of another competition!

It's got to involve mortars or cannons (handgonne would be the IDEAL walking stick).

Of course y'all will have to keep your own records.

Person who lives the longest wins.

Michael Az · « **Reply #15 on:** October 06, 2006, 12:47:31 PM »

I'm sixty years old and have lost 30 lbs this last year by changing diet, not very fun but had no alternative as I have arthritis too bad to go the physical activity route.
Michael

Cannonmaker · « **Reply #16 on:** October 06, 2006, 05:29:06 PM »

I have allways managed to do my melting with big doors, mostley spring and fall. Once when a kid a drop of sweat fell into the mold and that was no fun. got a burn on my arm.

I am not yet 60, least not for 6 more years, and I need to lose weight also. lost some weight this summer. As far as diet, soda pop and Cholicate are my weekness.

Rick

gary michie · « **Reply #17 on:** October 07, 2006, 08:03:48 AM »

HI:
I skim read most of the posts and might have miss it, but, in my 40 odd years of metal fab. I have had my share of zinc posioning. In the beginning a old timer told me to drink milk I would feel better sooner and if I knew that I was going to be around zinc welding that day get a 8oz. dose or more in me first and side step the getting sick part of that day. You know I'm pretty sure that it works and I know that after you're sick once the next time happens real easy after that.

Evil Dog · « **Reply #18 on:** October 07, 2006, 08:10:58 AM »

You're right Gary..... I seem to recall reading the same thing quite a while ago. I know there was a thread about Casting with Zinc and MMF hear probably a couple years ago, it may have come up there too.

Santa Dave · « **Reply #19 on:** October 07, 2006, 08:41:54 AM »

Quote from: Cat Whisperer on October 06, 2006, 12:54:30 AM

This sounds like the start of another competition!

It's got to involve mortars or cannons (handgonne would be the IDEAL walking stick)

Wesley is making me that walking stick right now! (I Think)
A .50 cal handgonne on one of Boyd's Stocks Laminated walking sticks!
Should be a classic! Pictures WILL follow!
Santa Dave
80 Days 'til Christmas !

m223 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 17, 2007, 11:34:45 AM »

So I'm not the only one to get this lovely ailment. Once is enough for me. I try to tell the guys at work they need to kick on the exhaust fan, or they might get metal fume fever, they think I'm making it up.

Evil Dog · « **Reply #21 on:** June 17, 2007, 02:21:30 PM »

Oh no.... it's quite real and no fun at all. Been there, done that.

GGaskill · « **Reply #22 on:** June 17, 2007, 07:51:42 PM »

... they need to kick on the exhaust fan, or they might get metal fume fever, they think I'm making it up.

Maybe tell them they need to comply with the company safety rules or they will be pounding the sidewalk. MMF is no joke.

Don Krag · « **Reply #23 on:** June 18, 2007, 03:16:14 PM »

I was one of the safety officers for the Texas A&M Univ system for 6 years. I have to admit, most procedures in my shop would not even come close to meeting the state workplace standards! However, a little common sense goes a looooong way. I've never had more than a bad headache from zinc fumes. I've downed several glasses of milk on a few occasions, though. I generally do melting out in front of the shop and try and stay out of the plume as much as possible. People who die from MMF usually have underlying respiratory issues and develop pneumonia as a secondary condition. I have come dangerously close to CO poisoning. Luckily, I noticed the effects and made it out of the shop before collapsing to the ground...but only because I was working virtually in the doorway. I'm still amazed at how little time there was between realizing the effects and blanking out. Unfortunately, CO doesn't go away in 48hrs or with milk. It was 3-4 weeks of hellish headaches, aching joints and general feeling like crap. If anyone's interested in the long drawn out story, feel free to email or PM me.

Be sure and check your AMAD particle size on the P/N100 filters. Metal fumes can be down in the single digit micrometer size. One of the better particulate filters are the radioisotope rated ones. These are micropore membranes used with a P100 as a prefilter. Of course venting and not being in the fumes always works best.

Now to link this to cannons.....during a presentation I gave on laser and accelerator safety, I opened up with a 2-minute clip of a "beer can" cannon blowing a 6" hole through a microwave oven. It was one of the most popular presentations that year.

Double D · « **Reply #24 on:** June 18, 2007, 04:45:50 PM »

I can't figure why the milk works, since the fumes are getting in you lungs...but what do you have to lose, drink the milk!!

I haven't done any Zinc casting in Montana yet, but the Zinc work done in Idaho was done outside. Montana will be a natural as the exhaust fan is always on in Montana. The only time the wind doesn't blow there it's to cold to go out and do anything.

Don Krag · « **Reply #25 on:** June 18, 2007, 08:15:17 PM »

Yeah, I have no idea what the milk or dairy enzymes are doing, but what the heck. If there's a chance it will prevent a headache and such, I'll drink the milk.

m223 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 18, 2007, 11:18:43 PM »

For the most part the guys I work with are great & they usually don't forget to turn the fan on , guess they just never heard of M.F.F. The prospect of having to hit the bricks doesn't much matter any more. Corporate America strikes again , they are taking a great one time family owned American company that started here in Kansas way back in the 1880's, and selling us down the river. I guess getting quality work for fair wages is no longer in vogue. Now I get to go to work and break down equipment to ship to Mexico. Thanks N.A.F.T.A. Sorry guys I know this is off topic. I have busted my butt for this company for 17 years and just had to get it off my chest. Bleeding Kansas.......