AHHHHH!!!! .444 or .450???

[killswitharrows]

I'm so fustrated right now. I was settled on a Winchester Timber in .444. Then it was bought out from under me. OK that's fine I'm all for free enterprize. Then you good folks  on this site helped me to come up with my second choice, the Marlin Outfitter/444P.

Now I've found the Outfitter in both .444 and .450 for very reasonable prices. But I can't decide!!!!

I'm leaning towards the .444 because more people have a .450 around here. I just like to be different.  But my buddy shoots a .450. So in a pinch I could get ammo form him. I have no problem getting into reloading. So relaoding is not an issue. I do like the flatter shooting .444.

I know this has been hashed and hashed and re-hashed some more, but your comments please!

 

[dawei]

Either the 444P Outfitter, or the 1895M (if used) will be terribly loud with the ported barrel. The new models 1895 G & M are not ported & no where near as loud. You'll probably get a million opinions about the calibers & the guns; but in the final analysis the only one that counts is yours. My view is jaded I admit; I favor the 444 Marlin®. It does everything I need to do with 240-300gr bullets. If I were in Northern Canada or Alaska I could see getting a 45/70 or 450 & then solely for defense against Kodiak & Grizzly Bears. If you are buying used; and if your choice is 444 please understand the difference in rifling. From it's inseption in 1964 until 1997 444 barrels were 1:38" twist with Microgroove® rifling (12 Lands & Grooves). Beginning in 1998 the rifling was changed to 1:20" Ballard (6 Lands & Grooves). I'm not trying to sway your decision to the 444 but offer my insight simply because I have one & know much more information about it than the 450 Marlin®. I'm sure other's here have much more info on the 450 & will also assist you. Lastly here are some useful 444Marlin links that may help you:

Ranch dog's Postal Match IV:
http://www.shootersforum.com/forumdisplay.htm?f=72
444 Marlin® - America's Most Versatile Big-Bore Part I:
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/17
444 Marlin® - America's Most Versatile Big-Bore Part II:
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/19
444 Marlin® - America's Most Versatile Big-Bore Part III:
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/28
The 444 Marlin® By: Glen E. Fryxell:
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell444Marlin.htm
444 Marlin® - The Forgotten Big Bore:
http://home.earthlink.net/~hwsportsman/444Marlin.html
Amending the Cross Bolt Safety:
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/52
Pressure, Velocity & the 444 Marlin®:
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/44
Beartooth Bullets:
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/
444 Marlin® Complete Loading Manual:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=860938
444 Marlin® - The Other Great Bone Crusher:
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/444.htm
Team 444 Marlin Merchandise:
http://www.cafepress.com/team444

[Coyote Hunter]

killswitharrows –

First, given proper bullet selection, any of the three (.444, 450 or .45-70) will do a great job on anything you’re going to hunt in North America.

Second, with 40,000 CUP handloads designed for the Marlin rifles, the .45-70 is the flattest shooting of the bunch.  It has a bit more case volume than the 450 and will launch bullets with similar Sectional Density as fast as the .444 and bullets of similar weight faster than the .444.  Bullets for the .45-70 range from 250g Barnes X to 500g – and heavier if you include cast bullets. 

Third, I would definitely stay away from ported barrels.  Not only are they extremely loud, they spit stuff out the ports, which can be both painful and dangerous when it hits bystanders.

After a couple years of looking for a good used Marlin chambered for any of the three cartridges I finally ended up with a .45-70 out of sheer luck – I walked into a gunstore and a two-year old 1895SS was going for $249.94.  Needless to say, it became mine very quickly.

Finally, handloading for any of these cartridges is highly recommended.  I load 300g Laser Cast bullets over 13.5g HS6 for a very accurate, very mild (about 2/3 that of a .30-30), and very inexpensive load – about $2.60 per 20.  These loads are excellent 50-yard loads and will the bullet will consistently penetrate 11 water jugs.  My hunting loads get 350g North Fork bullets at 2183fps for about $1 per loaded cartridge.  This load has taken a mulie buck at 197 lasered yards and a 6x6 bull elk at 213 lasered yards.  I was very impressed with the results in both cases.  I practice out to 300 yards and would not hesitate to take a shot at that range if I had a good rest.  There are a variety of loads I build that are in-between these loads in terms of cost, any of which make a good hunting load.  (I have more loads for my .45-70 than any other cartridge I load for.  It’s that much fun.) 

My suggestion is to get a Marlin – doesn’t much matter which one as it probably won’t be your last.  I started with a Marlin 375 (.375 Win), became addicted and got the .45-70, and now have a .30-30 as well.  When I want to have fun, these are the rifles I reach for.

[nomosendero]

That North Fork load looks good, should take care of ANY North American game (Big Bears included)
under 200 yards & as you said Elk & such somewhat further.
Yes, the SD of a 300Gr. 44 is about the same as a 350GR. 45cal., & yes they move at about the same velocity. To me when I hunt here in AR., either will give the the same range & terminal effect for Whitetails, Hogs & Deer with these bullets with good bullet const. with the 444 being a good bit more pleasant. But for Elk & above (esp. above), the 45-70 350 gr. would give me an edge & I would then opt for it.

[BUSTER51]

450 Marlin has some of the best factory ammo (350 Hornaday) i have shot everything from cyotes to elk with it and it just plain works .no need to reload for what i shoot .dead is dead .

[Mikey]

My preference is for the 444; got a Timber Carbine, too.  The 444 shines best with heavy reloads.  All mine are firelapped and shoot incredible groups with heavy bullets (300-330 and heavier).  It will take anything I want to hunt in North America.  Mikey.

[killswitharrows]

Well I did it. I bought a Marlin 444P.  It should be here in 2 weeks or so. I would love to take it to the mnts with me for elk. I'm not sure I will have time to get it zero'd before then or not. Might have to go with 'old trusty' the .30-06.

Any advice on factory ammo just to get it into the woods quicker?

[Mikey]

Hornaday has a 265 gn Light Magnum load that should work fine on Elk.  Corbon carries two loads -  270 (?) and 300 gn jacketed; don't know about Buffalo Bore or Garret but maybe.  Mikey.

[LET-CA]

You chose well.  The 444 is a great cartridge.  If you shoot factory ammo, stick with Hornady's 265 grain bullet.  If you load your own, there's a ton of good bullets available.  I shoot cast lead from my Winchester Timber Carbine and prefer heavier bullets.  Most of what I shoot starts at 265 grains, with the heaviest wighing in at 330 grains.  by loading your own, you can tailor loads to your specific preferences, whether it be plinking at the range or chasing godzilla through the mountains.  Good luck with the new rifle and make sure you share stories as you use it.

[Mac11700]

Whatever you shoot in it...make sure your wearing ear protection...

Mac