Author Topic: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3  (Read 3100 times)

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Offline ms

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A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« on: August 28, 2006, 07:36:31 AM »
 >:(



A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
(And Other Economy Hunting Rifles)

By Chuck Hawks



Like many old geezers, I bemoan the loss, or lack, of standards in our modern world. And nowhere is this devaluation of quality more evident than in 21st Century hunting rifles. (Actually, the slide started in the 1960's and accelerated toward the end of the 20th Century).

We are, today, reaping the crop of sub-standard rifles previously sown. Most of the blame for this falls squarely on the shoulders of the writers and publishers of the specialty outdoors print magazines. In the quest for advertising dollars they have turned a blind eye to the constant cheapening of our hunting guns. Often they have merely parroted the promotional flack handed to them by the manufacturer's ad agencies.

Thus flimsy, injection molded plastic stocks are praised as "lightweight" or "weather resistant" rather than criticized as the inferior bedding platforms that they actually are. Free floating barrels, introduced simply to minimize the labor cost of precisely bedding a barreled action in a gun stock, are now praised as an asset by those who know nothing else. A perfect example of an economy shortcut becoming the new standard.

The deficiencies of receivers that are simply drilled from bar stock and that substitute heavy washers for integral recoil lugs are never examined in modern rifle reviews. Often the loading/ejection port--merely a slot cut into the tubular receiver--is so small that it is difficult or impossible to load a cartridge directly into the chamber, or manually remove a fired case. But the implication of this drawback at the range and in the field is never mentioned in most rifle reviews.

In many cases, "short actions" are merely long actions with the bolt stop moved forward to limit bolt travel. The modern gun writers who review these creations likewise never mention that this defeats the fundamental purpose of the short action calibers for which these rifles are chambered.

The receiver holds the bolt, which brings up a salient question: does anyone really believe than a cheap multi-piece, assembled bolt has any possible advantage over a one-piece forged steel bolt except economy of manufacture?

The use of plastic, nearly disposable, detachable magazines and trigger guards is overlooked by the popular print press, or actually praised for their lightweight construction. Talk about spin, these guys could teach the Washington political hacks some tricks!

In fact, "lightweight" and "accuracy" are the buzzwords most frequently used to "spin" hunting rifle reviews in a paying advertiser's favor. (Cheap substitute materials are usually lighter--but not stronger--than forged steel, and most production rifles will occasionally shoot a "braggin' group" that can be exploited in a review.) Whenever reviewers start touting either, watch out! There may not be a lot to tout in the critical areas of design, material quality, manufacture, or fit and finish.

A rifle's lines and finish are largely cosmetic, but why should we be condemned to hunt with ugly rifles? Matte finishes on barreled actions are sold as a benefit ("low glare"), but in reality they are simply faster and thus less expensive for the manufacturer to produce than a highly polished finish. And the flat black color touted as a stealth advantage of plastic stocks over walnut is patently absurd. Why would a rational person believe that such stocks are any less visible to animals in the woods than a wooden stock?

Have you noticed how the checkered areas on wood stocked Tikka T3 rifles are divided into several small patches? That is done because it is easier (and therefore cheaper) to cut a small patch of checkering than a larger one. The shorter the individual checkering lines, the easier it is to keep them straight. Once again, manufacturing economy triumphs over aesthetics and function.

The Tikka T3 is certainly not the only modern hunting rifle to adopt some or most of these production shortcuts. I have not chosen it for the lead in this article just to pick on Tikka. I have chosen it as the poster child for cheap rifles because it is one of the few models to incorporate all of these cost and quality reducing shortcuts. If there is a production shortcut out there, the T3 has probably already incorporated it.

Then there is the Tikka 1" 100-yard accuracy claim. Based on my experience and a fair amount of correspondence from T3 owners, I am convinced that many, perhaps most, T3 rifles will not consistently meet Tikka's 3-shots into 1" at 100 yards out of the box accuracy claim.

Now, unlike many gun writers today, I try not to over emphasize the importance of accuracy in big game hunting rifles. Big game animals are large and hair-splitting accuracy is almost never required. A rifle that will consistently shoot into 2" at 100 yards (2 MOA) is accurate enough for most purposes. A hunting rifle that will average 1.5 MOA groups with an occasional sub-1" group thrown in for good measure (and an occasional 2" group, too) is a good one, and most T3 rifles seem to fall into that category.

But the Beretta/Sako/Tikka conglomerate heavily advertises their 1" accuracy guarantee. They market their rifles on that basis. And, in my experience, many Tikka T3 rifles simply will not consistently meet their own accuracy guarantee with factory loaded big game hunting ammunition. Maybe Tikka is testing these rifles with Lapua or Federal Gold Medal match ammo, but that's not what big game hunters are shooting. Any rifle/shooter can shoot an occasional, lucky, sub-MOA 3-shot group, of course. (Want a real MOA hunting rifle? Read our review of the Weatherby Vanguard SUB-MOA on the Product Review Page.) Why do none of my fellow gun writers in the popular press call Beretta on its misleading advertising?

That is, of course, a rhetorical question. The answer is simple: Beretta Corp. is a big bucks advertiser in the popular print magazines. But what about the writers' and editors' obligation to their readers, who pay their hard earned dollars to read those reviews? Obviously, the word "integrity" has been deleted from the print mag publishers' spelling checkers.

To add insult to injury, the Tikka T3 is a cheap rifle, but not an inexpensive one. These things cost as much or more than some higher quality, better designed, and better turned-out hunting rifles.

None of this means that a person cannot hunt successfully with a Tikka T3 rifle, or that Tikka owners are a particularly dissatisfied lot. There are many T3 owners who have no complaints, and many who are pleased with the performance of their T3 rifles and satisfied with their purchase. In truth, they are safe, functional rifles and perfectly capable of killing game in the hands of an adequate shot. The same could be said about most other economy models, including the far less expensive Stevens 200, Remington 710, and NEF rifles.

I suspect that most satisfied T3 customers are not experienced rifle buyers. A person who has never owned a fine rifle is much more likely to be tolerant (or ignorant) of an economy rifle's shortcomings than an experienced shooter and hunter. The relative newcomer simply has inadequate personal experience upon which to formulate an informed opinion.

To make a crude analogy, all acoustic guitars may feel pretty much alike in the hands of a person who doesn't play, but not to a virtuoso. Similarly, I'll bet that most hunters who use economy rifles don't realize that their rifle's cheap plastic stock is too thick through the wrist and forearm. This is something that comes into play every time they pick up their rifle, yet they don't even know that it is deficient! They have never owned a rifle equipped with a well-designed stock, so they have no frame of reference and simply don't understand how much better a good rifle feels in the hands.

Still, I find it hard to understand how Tikka stays in business offering less rifle for more money. The T3's success is a tribute to the ignorance of the modern American sportsman--and the connivance of the sporting press upon which they rely for information.
 


Offline Questor

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2006, 08:36:45 AM »
I had a negative reaction to the Remington 700. I really expected it to be better.
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Offline BUSTER51

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2006, 08:48:18 AM »
Yes Tikka has cheapened the T3, I have A T3 Hunter in .243  with a wood stock and wish it had a one piece bolt a steel trigger guard and better chechering .with that said it has always shot moa or less with Winchester Supreme balistic tip ammo.got  it new last year for $389.00 not pretty but gets the job done. ???

Offline Buckfever

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2006, 09:26:42 AM »
Well I guess I am a novice who doesn't know what a good gun is!  I have (3) Tikkas and they are three of the most accurate firearms I have owned.  Yes, I have owned at least 2 dozen different rifles.  I used to just buy Remingtons and Winchesters but they aren't the same are they?  I had a Ruger M-77 in a 7 mag., wonderful firearm that my nephew uses.  By the way the trigger was crisp and around 3lbs and It didn't require a jerk and pull to get it to work!

I have read many articles by Chuck Hawks and have found him to be quite accurate when he deals in quanitative facts.  Which brings me to this.  Mr. Hawks who do or did you work for when you inked this piece.  I am no bench rest shooter but all three of my Tikkas shoot MOA with factory ammunition.  I also have a CZ which is very accurate.  Also where are the examples of what we as an ignorant, niave public should look at.  The world Sir is full of problem finders, we need solutions!!  Buying rifles in the past for me was simple buy a Remington and shoot it.  Tell us about all the parts of a cheap firearm and then tell me why a lot of people buy Savage.  That Sir is because they shoot!!!!!   This article seems more like a article written against something then a suggested solution, which most of you articles have been in the past.

I am currently looking at a Remington CDL in a 25-06, is this a cheap rifle?  What is the conclusion that we all have to spend $ 1000.00 for a Weatherby, Kimber, or Sako?   Sorry but where's the beef???????  Buckfever

Offline Questor

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2006, 09:30:10 AM »
Buckfever:

I don't get it either. From what I've read from various people, the Weatherby, Sako, and Kimber are junk too.
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Offline Brithunter

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2006, 10:44:52 AM »
Hmmm well I could say that Mr Hawks has been reading my posts  :D Whilst I do not know much about the Tikka T3 never having much interest in them. I have been bemoaning the poorer quality and cheapness of production rifles that is unless we consider the High end and custom/bespoke rifles.

The problem is appears is that the modern shooter demands that they must be able to buy their next toy with one or two pay packets. However if you compare the prices of rifles even in the 1970's for most folks it would take much more than one or two wage packets to buy themselves a new rifle back then. Go back further and the time scale lengthens even more. However the way the rifles were made was far better in most cases back then as a rifle was lifetime investment and with proper use and care would actually last more than one lifetime unlike the throw away ones being produced by some of the major manufactuers today :'( For instance the norm for rifling depth now it seems is 0.004"  ::) this is not for better accuracy but it's due to the Button rifling being more commonly used now as it's quick and cheap. Check out some older rifles and measure their depth of rifling and you will be surprised, especially with European rifles, the rifleing depth used by Steyr was 0.008" but according to the gunwriters this is oversize  :o who says? Does the gunwriter know more than the designer? and the production engineer? Swedish mausers also have these oversize bores from deep rifling yet their core diameter is normally spot on! It's that they use deeper grooves than is fashionable today in the cheap and cheerful society.

Plastic stocks are produced because once the mold is paid for then making the stocks is like shelling peas, one pops out of the mould ever few seconds. The motor industry is the same! why does a bit of plastic which cost pennies to make cost you the punter a small fortune?  >:( Yes wood is more expensive and modern wood is often ................. more often than not badly cured. Kiln drying produces mediocre wood quickly and cheaply but again they charge a small fortune for it. Properly Air Dried/cured wood costs a fortune now  ??? never mind finely figured wood. Free floated barrels ......... I have said that it was a cost saving idea for many years. If you get the chance examine the stocking including the bedding of a real classic rifle even a Military rifle from pre WW2 had finely executed bedding and fit of the stock. Pre WW1 is even better as during the Great War even gunsmiths and stockers were sacrificed to the cause and a lot of skilled men lost their lives  :(.

Here I can directly compare the quality of rifles made by the same factory over different years and the latest rifle made has the poorest quality, in fact the stock fit and bedding was so poor I had to have the rifle bedded by a gunsmith who works to the old standards. Finding one who could and was prepared to do a correct job and not just want to piller bad and free float was hard but I found one in the end and now the rifle is bedded as it should have been  ;D You see it takes time and patience to bed a rifle correctly unlike piller bedding and free floating which is quick and easy ::).

    Chuck Hawks is right about stock design though  ;) I suppose I am lucky that I have always liked the classics in rifles and shotguns. Comparing an English Shotgun is it's classical form of the SxS Game Gun made before WW1 with the modern mass market produced O/U or a semi or even the pump is a real education. The wrist is slim and comfortable and flows into the rest of the gun, it aids aiming without you even thinking about it  ;) same with the rifles. Parker-Hale did not do a bad stock in this respect however compare it to say a Rigby and there is a noticable difference, same with that Bespoke rifle I brought used, the stocking is very comfortable indeed almost as if it was made for me.

   Another thing I have noticed when comparing classic rifles with modern ones is depsite the average person being taller now the stocks on modern rifles are shorter  ??? could this be another cost cutting measure?

    Buster51 says his Tikka shoots MOA or less with Winchester factory ammuntition, as I have not seen it shoot I cannot say he is misleading us, why would he want to? we have to take his statement at face value. I tried some Winchester 180 grn Silver Tips in my .308 yesterday and they shot a group of 4 MOA, there is clearly a mismatch here as with a handload using the 165 grn Nosler Balistic Tip this rifle will shoot less than MOA. The group of 5 shots yesterday, the only group with this load I shot, was actually just over 0.800". My local gunshop has stopped stocking Winchester Full bore ammunition because he has had too many complaints about inconsistancy from his customers  ???. Yet clearly in some rifles it shoots very well indeed. Ammunition companies genrally do very well as providing a load which will shoot reasonably well in various rifles must be a nightmare  :o.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2006, 10:56:04 AM »
I don't even have a clue who or what a Chuck Hawk is. I've heard the name bandied about here before but that's the only place I've ever heard it. I began reading the above but wasn't able to finish it, he is too full of BS just as he accuses the writers of.  ::)  BTW I do agree with him on that aspect however.  :o

He wishes to interject his personal likes and dislikes and substitute his likes for what is quality and his dislikes as lack of quality. It's all a matter of what one wants. Yes most all factory rifles are made as economically as possible within the specific price nitch they are shooting for. That's not necessary bad and certainly not evil.

For me the Remington Model 700 and their Model 7 are nearly exactly what I personally want from a rifle. True I'm less than fond of their plastic stocks but then that applies to ALL plastic stocks no matter the source. I'm no more fond of walnut for stocks. I'm a laminate stock kinda person.

But I don't go around trying to substitue my personal likes and dislikes on the rest of the world and call what I like quality and what I don't as lack of quality. I'm sure if you look around you'll find what you want, if not have it made the way you want it.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline Todd1700

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2006, 11:08:49 AM »
Weird read from Chuck. Who pissed in his post toasties? I have always noted that the Tikka T-3 is definately an economy model rifle. Hell, that's what I like about it. Here's a 458 dollar rifle that will, straight out of the box, outshoot most rifles that cost 3 times as much. I'm a function over fashion kinda guy and that suits me fine. I don't buy rifles to impress my friends as far too many people do. And if I want a masterpiece I'll buy a painting. I want a rifle I'm not scared to scratch up while using. As for the plastic parts, well I don't beat my deer to death with with the buttstock of my rifles as some people obviously do so it's never been an issue to me. I've had a Tikka T-3 as one of my rifles for 4 years now and I haven't had a hint of a problem with any part on it.

But here is where he really hangs his ass

Quote
Then there is the Tikka 1" 100-yard accuracy claim. Based on my experience and a fair amount of correspondence from T3 owners, I am convinced that many, perhaps most, T3 rifles will not consistently meet Tikka's 3-shots into 1" at 100 yards out of the box accuracy claim

That is what we used to call down on the farm pure  horse s##t. I don't know anyone that owns a T-3 that hasn't found several factory loads that will shoot sub 1 inch groups at 100 yards. Has anyone ever gotten a T-3 that wouldn't shoot well? I'm sure it's happened but it's d**n sure the exception and not the rule. And if you think that most factory rifles in this price range or even higher shoot just as well as a Tikka then you haven't bought many rifles lately. I could cover this board up with links to online discussions involving people bemoaning the fact that their new 1600 dollar rifle won't keep 3 shots under 2 1/2 inches at 100 yards.

Sounds like Remington cut Hawks a check to try and help stem the T-3 tide thats threatening their beachfront condo. Too bad I used to read the guys artucles. Now I don't trust them.

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2006, 11:50:36 AM »
I don't listen to most of them gun writers, I experiment for myself. Some of these guys are so full of themselves it is not even funny.
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Offline Sigma

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2006, 01:02:54 PM »
I'm with Todd1700. That's what I like about the T3 - you don't have to be afraid to beat the crap out of it. Most often, if I'm hunting rugged territory, I'll take a T3 while my Sako's stay at home.

A few weeks ago, I took a new T3 Lite Stainless in 6.5x55 to the range for the first time. After 15 shots I cleaned and shot a clover leaf smaller than a dime. And that's with factory ammo. Pretty impressive to me.  ;)

In contrast, ALL of my Winchesters had to go back to the shop due to manufacturing flaws that I discovered while sighting in and shooting for the first time.

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Offline Zachary

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2006, 01:21:23 PM »
It's interesting.... about 4, 5 years ago, when virtually no one knew about Tikkas, especially from what I gather from our members here at GBO, I was one of the first people here to buy one.  It was the original Tikka (not the newer T-3) in a .25-06 laminated Stainless.  With factory ammo (which is all I shoot), the gun shot 3/4" groups at 100 yards with no problem - and  that was on a kinda windy day.  Since then, I posted my experience as both a moderator and member here at GBO.  Since then, I have received many posted questions (as well as PMs) asking me more and more about the Tikka.  Given that I myself have owned many other brands and models of rifles, I truly found the Tikka to be one of my favorite choices, especially for the money.  As most of you know, I have bought more Tikkas since my first .25-06, and they all are of high quality and they are all shooters - sub MOA (so I don't know what the heck "Chuck Hawks" is talking about.) 

People sometimes tease me by asking me if I get any kickbacks from Tikka. :-X  Yea, I wish I did.  Truth is, I don't get squat from Tikka, but I am a firm believer in their product.  Now if I got a dollar from each member that bought a Tikka as a result (at least in part) of my recommendation.......well........I could stop practicing law and retire! ;D

Zachary



Offline marylandeer

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2006, 02:44:54 PM »
I'm with Buckfever and Mr. Graybeard on this one. I USED to read the hawk articles but he has lost his mind for sure this time ???.
And Zachary you can add me to your list bud. I'm one of those happy Tikka T3 (ignorant - unimformed) owners.
Mr. Hawk if you would like to send that crappy Tikka to me I'll be sure to properly dispose of it for you. Ha ha ha.

Offline Sigma

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2006, 03:02:38 PM »
The article should be named "A Biased look at the Tikka T3"

Offline Zachary

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2006, 04:00:07 PM »
LOL.  I'm actually tempted to do that.  :D

Zachary

Offline Questor

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2006, 04:27:11 PM »
I found it rather refreshing. I've read too many reviews lately that read like this "...noticeable trigger creep....9 pound trigger pull a little heavier than I prefer...best group of 3.5 inches at 100 yards...only six malfunctions...it's a fine gun and I recommend it." It's nice to see somebody write what he thinks. 

In defense of Hawks, I've read some of his stuff before and it tends to be balanced, factual, and worth reading. He must have been having a bad day when he wrote that Tikka piece.
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Offline wareagleguy

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2006, 06:52:11 PM »
My life is over.  Someone doesn't like Tikka.  ::)

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Offline Brithunter

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2006, 11:51:25 PM »
Whoops I seem to have upset the apple cart  ::)

    As for Tikkas I have shot an older model 695 Contental which was chambered in 22-250 and it was a very nice gun to shoot, accurate with is handloads, just not my cup of tea. Now my friends .222 Rem Tikka which is the model before the T3 is a different case. This gun has been giving him fits about accuracy whiich has resulted in a new scope and several types of factory ammo and handloads and it's still not brilliant  :-[ This is not ususal for Tikka by a long chalk.

     Now Greybeard likes his Remingtons and I don't so what? I said before and I will say it again the only Remingtons I would consider are a P-14 or US Model of 1917 and a Model 30/30S. The Model 700 feels awful to me. Perhaps I should have remembered that somewhere I read on this site that Greybeard is a gunwriter ........... is this a fact? The only one I know personally had his first review thrown back at him because he told the truth and the editor told him we cannot print that to it was re-hashed to make the reviewed rifle appear better. Now this was in the UK and it reminds me of the old Motorcyle reviews of the 1950's where evreything was rosey as a bad review meant that the Magazine didn't get the offer to test any more Motorcycles from that maker.

    I might add that some of the best quality gun parts I saw were actually being made at the time. I was working as a contractor machinst at this firm who had gotten teh cntract to make the parts for the browning .50 cal machine gun for the Challenger tank upgrade. These parts were machined out of solid forged blocks of steel. Compared to the SA80 parts I saw made and was involved in making at one time the difference in material alone was remarkable :o.

  If Mr Greybeard ever makes it across the pond to the UK I would be happy to let him compare the old World craftsmanship to the modern production which he is more used to  :) but I don't see how lamenting the loss of quality is BS.

Quote
he is too full of BS just as he accuses the writers of.

     Sorry but exactly what is BS?

     The price of a new P-H 1200 Super chambered for 30.06 in June 1973 was £55:50. In 1979 I was just earning that amount before stoppages a week and inflation was higher back then than it is now or so we are told. I took the price from the P- Catalogue No 73/4. In 1908 the price of a Best Sporting rifle built on a Mannlicher Model 1892 action by Rigby's of London was 12 Guineas this price is taken from a copy of Rigby's ledger page for this rifle. In 1908 a skilled man would have to have worked between 4-6 months to afford this. I am sorry to say i cannot compare Rigby's new prices as they no longer in the UK the name being brought by a US concern called Rogue River rifles if memory serves me correctly who operate from California.

      As for comparing declining quality I can diredtly compare rifles made from 1959 -1986 by the same firm. Namely BSA of Birmingham who during that period changed the design to cheapen production costs. The CF2 made in 86 is not quite so well finished as the CF2 made in 83 and neither compare favorably with the Majestic Featherweight made in 59. This is not BS but a verifiable fact. A similar comapision can be made over a shorter period of 1970-1988 with Parker-Hale rifles it is the 88 manufactured 1200 Super which had the awful bedding problems and the bolt ways in the action were not smooth as they should have been or as the older P-H 1200's I have are. Agian direct comapision of dropping standards in Quality. Both P-H and BSA still used forgings in their production, tradition one piece forged bolts, and I believe that in their late production both used Hammer forged barrels although BSA did cut rifle barrels for their earlier models. The P-H hammer forging machine is still in use as it was purchased by and moved to Armalon's factory:-

Quote
The company is finalising an expansion programme that will add to their existing largely CNC based production facilities, the complete barrel making plant previously owned and operated by Parker-Hale Limited. Also on hand are the key production personnel who successfully operated that plant. Over the years Parker-Hale produced a wide range of superb barrels, not only with the 1200TX and other target rifles but also their M82 and M85 Sniper rifles, the UK MoD’s L82A1 and L82A2 Cadet target rifles, and their full choice of reproduction muzzle loading classics. The range also included a host of other types from their airguns to the .22 semi-autos. In addition many barrels were produced on contract for other discerning end-users demanding top quality such as for the German Blaser rifles. Many thousands were also made for the UK MoD’s L1A1 SLR and also their GPMG FN-MAG/USM240 type refurbishment programmes.

   Hmmm more BS I suppose ::) ???.

Offline Lead Poison

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2006, 09:10:03 AM »
I very much agree with Mr. Hawks "A Critical Look at the Tikka Ts" comments. He wasn't bashing Tikkas, he was simply and fairly pointing out some of their weak points. He also pointed out that many rifles shot extremely well.

Now before any Tikka owners get upset with his comment about Tikkas being cheaply made, but not inexpensive, be honest with yourself and admit that this particular statement is 100% true! I've owned Tikka rifles and believe they SHOULD be made of better quality materials...especially for the price you pay for them!!! This is especially true for the new T-3, which now cost much more than the original Tikka Whitetail model they replaced. Sadly but true, the quality/material of the T-3s has actually gone down.

Do Tikkas shoot well...yes. Are Tikkas cheaply made...yes. Should you get better quality/material for the price you pay for a Tikka...again yes you should.:( Not bashing Tikkas, but being honest. The same applies to other manufacturers as well.

Offline Zachary

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2006, 01:33:50 PM »
I have to disagree that Tikkas are cheaply made.  Perhaps there may be cost saving designs.  I don't know about the argument that x-lines per inch checkering is costs less to make than 7-lines of checkering.  To me, I don't even notice.  Look at the quality of a Tikka and then compare it to a Winchester.  Tikka sales have skyrocketed over the last 5 years, whereas Winchester closed its doors.  You know that quality has a lot to do with it.  Again, I am just trying to make the distinction between cost cutting designs and actual quality. 

Ask any Tikka owner, whether original Tikka or the new T3s, if their guns are cheaply made.  I trust that you will receive a resounding no.

Zachary

Offline Grubbs

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2006, 05:25:53 AM »
Mr Lead Poison, how many Tikkas have you owned, or own now?  On the price thing, gunbroker has hundreds of T-3's from $450 and up, about what the Tikka Whitetails originally sold for.  I'll also bet the "plastic" on my 3 Tikkas will last as long or longer than any metal on any gun you have. But this is precisely what I do like about them.  I'm not afrad to really use it, as I'm tearing up my $1500 Steyr when I'm in the sand, snow, rain, or mud.

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2006, 08:51:56 AM »
I have a Tikka Whitetail hunter in 300 Win Mag and I love the gun, do I think it is cheaply made, hell no.
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Offline victorcharlie

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2006, 02:41:11 PM »
No doubt the Tika has a butter smooth action and a very nice trigger.....the fit and finish is at least as good and probably better than most rifles in that price range.

I like the wood stock or laminate better than the kevlar (T3 lite) which to me is not cosmetically appealing.......

I handle about 100 rifles a day or more of various brands, and I don't see many that don't have an acceptable fit and finish.  As a whole, the quality seems fine, or at least acceptable, on most major brands........

That said, I find the new Remington mountain rifle with the detachable mag to be about as good looking a rifle as there is.......for the money.......
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Offline 1longshot

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2006, 10:27:24 PM »
Wow,

   I hope I don't make any enimies here, but you can't please everyone.  So Here is my assessment of theTikka T3 stainless models from onlymy daily observation and handling of them.  I look at them,  I look at all the plastic peices, I look at the aluminum scope rings they include (very cheap looking), and I look at the inexpenisvely rough bead blasted barrel (Nice and rough, emry board rough) and the hexigon bar stock reciever mann; I think to myself what a peice of !*&!@@!!..  I know they promise and inch or less.  Well for those who own them and love them, good for you.

I will not be buying one unless they go onsale for half the price they cost.  They ain't fooling me with that thing.  I do like a beat around rifle, its a good thing, but I don't how much can you charge for something that just seem s so chincy.  I guess what ever the public is willing to pay.  It is all a matter of taste and personal persuasion I guess.  Same reason I buy screwed up Remingtons too I guess.  To each his own.  But come on!!  Do you really think all that plastic cost that much to produce?  Maybe they are recovering R&D funds? Hmmmm...

Things I do like about the gun....  ONE...    The externally adjustable trigger.  Pretty good...  Stilll I would probably buy a Savage, Weatherby Vangard, Ruger, or a Howa in stead.
Seem more solid to me.

Just my thoughts. 

Can't say much for how they shoot.  Most savages look pretty crappy in my opinion and they shoot pretty good too.  I am not buying a savage anytime soon either.

1longshot

Offline Brithunter

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2006, 10:56:41 PM »
The thing which I notice most is how the quality of finish dropped once Berretta took over Tikka and Sako. In my mind I cannot seperate this. Berretta has spoiled these fine rifles compared to what they used to be  ::) :'(.

Offline Buckfever

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2006, 03:57:22 AM »
I find it hard to judge any firearm I have never owned or shot.  I like quite a few and have owned them of many manufactuers.  If I don't own it or maybe use it on a hunt I think we are just holding a beauty contest.
I like Steyr also and they really have a plastic look, but they will shoot the wings off a fly !  I guess fuction is most of it for me.  I still like blued and wood the best but accuracy is number #1.  No bigger downer for me than chasing a bullet around a target with a pretty new rifle.  Give me ugly if it shoots.  My T3 Tikka in a 6.5-55 is blued and wood, a dandy piece of Turkish walnut.  It is a tack driver!!  It is very good looking and I get remarks about it at the range.  Good looks and accuracy.   The search goes on for a 25-06 or a 280 next.
Buckfever

Offline Todd1700

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2006, 06:05:15 AM »
A lot of people keep commenting here that Tikkas aren't as nice as they should be for the price you pay. Which leads me to the following question....What are you being charged for a Tikka in your area? I paid 458 dollars for mine and I could go get another one for that price right now. 458 bucks may be nothing to sneeze at for a middle class working man but it sure as hell isn't a lot of money for a centerfire bolt action rifle. The only new centerfire bolt action rifles that you could find for a little less would be a Savage 110, A Remington 710 or a Stevens model 200. And if you think that the fit, finish and overall appearance of those rifles match or outshine a Tikka then you need to upgrade your eyeglass prescription.  The 110 is generally a accurate rifle with a nice trigger but it's a very basic cheap looking gun and the action tends to be pretty rough. The 710 is ugly as mutated frog and a piece of ####  in my opinion to boot. I have never fired the Stevens but I have held one and it's not going to win any beauty contests either. So if you are paying high prices for a Tikka T-3 don't blame Tikka or Beretta. Odds are your local sporting goods store is just taking advantage of this guns popularity to gouge your @$$. Focus your ire on him not Tikka.



Maybe I just have low standards but I think that Tikkas look okay.

Offline marylandeer

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2006, 06:43:58 AM »
Todd1700 you don't have low standards. That Tikka looks great and it's one heck of a rifle. What we have here is one guy putting a (Tikka Bashing) article on the net probably because he was paid to do it. It does not matter what the product looks llike or how much it costs there will always be someone out there to bash that product. When some people see a bashing of a product like this they will jump onboadrd (bandwagon). This is why big companies pay for bashing articles about there competitors products, especially competitors that are hurting them the most. It's just big business.

Offline si72

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2006, 11:38:51 AM »
I don't own a tikka would not mind though. I am looking for a new cf in 308 or 7mm o8.  While out looking over the options here is what I have seen. The remington 700sps finish is rough on the barrell The stock is a reasonable shape nut is just plastic with little grip the trigger is average and the action while not really smooth feals solid the price for this is $1195 nz. The howa 1500 finish on the action and barrel is silky smooth and beat the remington into a cocked hat its also $200 cheaper.The issue with the howa is the crappy stock. The tikka is similar in finish to the howa with the benifit of the better stock, good trigger and the detachable mag it is $1500 nz. The browning a bolt is also $1500 I consider this to be as good as the tikka. I am interested in the savage model 16 styn synth accutrigger this retails for $1200 but is available in l/h but I have yet to find one to look at.

just my observations

I read the mags too but allways like to have a look myself. My local gun guy is a good man and very candid he would not sell me a crappy rifle.

si

Offline nasem

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2006, 08:39:07 AM »
Alright I'll ask it...

I wounder how much some of the american gun companies paied Chuck Hawks to get drunk and smoke some weed before doing a full review on Tikka rifles

Offline Zachary

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Re: A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2006, 01:48:09 PM »
LOL.  Maybe Remington paid him.

Zachary