Author Topic: Caliber Selection (Read 1288 times)

35Rem · « **on:** August 23, 2006, 09:45:57 AM »

Hoping for a lot of opinions here...

Looking at a Stevens 200 for the wife. She's not a tiny lady, but a newer shooter and as recoil goes, less is better.
Not a big 243 fan. Whitetail is the target.

What caliber should I get and why?

The Sodbuster · « **Reply #1 on:** August 23, 2006, 01:38:23 PM »

If you're only considering the Stevens 200 and you don't want a .243, I'd recommend the 7mm-08. It burns less powder than the .25-06 (available in their long action), so I would expect it has less recoil (I haven't done the math, the 7-08 does shoot heavier bullets, so maybe it's 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other). It'll do the job on whitetails and kick less that the .308 Win (also chambered by Stevens).

If you'd also consider a Ruger, which is also reasonably priced, but not as inexpensive as the Stevens; I think they offer 'em in .257 Roberts. Another good choice for a modest recoil, deer rifle.

Val · « **Reply #2 on:** August 23, 2006, 02:47:00 PM »

I went to my Nosler manual and compared the 25-06 and 7mm-08 in the same 120 grain bullet. They are nearly identical ballistically. I looked at IMR 4350 powder and they both list 49 grains as max. They both had a muzzle velocity over 3000 fps with the 7mm-08 being 3051 and the 25-06 at 3080. They are pretty much the same. The 7mm-08 does have the ability to go to heavier bullets if you choose to. The 25-06 is a great deer gun and so is the 7mm-08. Don't discount the .243 as a deer rifle. If low recoil is the consideration the .243 is probably the best choive. 100 grain Nosler Partitions in a .243 will drop any North American deer.

Jasper243 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 23, 2006, 03:19:44 PM »

I think the 7mm-08 is a great choice. You can load it down and still have plenty of power for deer at reasonable ranges, and you have the flexability to move up in powder charge and bullet weight if needed at a later date. I like Winchester 760 in all of the calibers made with the 308 winchester case.

Jasper243

flintlock · « **Reply #4 on:** August 23, 2006, 03:37:23 PM »

I just have to ask...What's wrong with a .243??? Have you had problems with it killing deer in the past???

BloomGrad · « **Reply #5 on:** August 23, 2006, 03:43:54 PM »

Well the rifle is chosen as the Stevens 200, but not the .243 Win. Ok .. lets think.

In the short action my choice would be the 7-08 Rem. I've gotten several deer with with round and do not have any reservations in making that as the selection. Lighter recoil than the .308 or anything in the long action version. A large variety of bullets and factory loads are available. The long action choice might be the .25-06. But I lean to the 7-08 as I feel it has less of a blast on firing that might distract your wife.

The down side is that if you are going to shop a chain store or old time hardware store the ammo MIGHT not always be on hand like the .308 Win. That's the only down side that I can even think of.

Now comes the monkey wrench into the works. Have you considered the line of MANAGED- RECOIL ammo that Remington offers for the recoil shy gunners? They have these light rounds that are tailored for hunting deer in all of the rounds that are offered in the Stevens. Long or short action. These could be used until the Mis'uz gets used to the recoil. Then she could graduate to the standard recoil deer loads. Now you're not limited to just the 7-08 or the .25-06. The .270 and the .30-06 now become resonable choices.

Choices and choices.

See if you can borrow examples of the cartridges under consideration from any friends so she can test fire them. She might so suprise herself, and you, that she might pick something bigger on her own.

Todd1700 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 24, 2006, 03:40:45 AM »

Quote

But that's really no big deal.

If a 243 is a no go then a 7mm-08 is hands down the way to go. I've been using one for about 4 years now and it really is ideal for whitetails. Low recoil yet shoots pretty flat and kills whitetails very effectively. I also have a 25-06 and while it's pretty mild on recoil as well, it has a more substantial muzzle blast compared to the 7mm-08. I have found that muzzle blast can contribute as much to flinching in some people as the actual felt recoil. Something to consider.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #7 on:** August 24, 2006, 11:11:17 AM »

.257 Roberts.

Factory ammo selection isn't great, but the Federal 120g loads are all you need. Very easy on the shoulder and over 1200fpe at 300 yards.

If that isn't quite enough or if Stevens doesn chamber for it, the .260 Remington or .25-06.

kyote · « **Reply #8 on:** August 24, 2006, 11:57:03 AM »

look into the 7x57....it has been around for a while and just about everything thing has been shot and killed with it except for the bigfoot creature..he he he..
I think it would be a great whitetail rifle.CZ makes a great manlicher styled one.I am not sure what the steven's 200 can come chambered in..

35Rem · « **Reply #9 on:** August 24, 2006, 12:34:10 PM »

The 243 just doesn't impress me. It really needs to be a perfect shot/presentation to work well. I don't feel it makes a big enough hole. Personal opinion, I know lots of people use em, just not me. And plenty of folks have had problems taking deer with it. (I know there are lots of arguments to that statement, but it is a fact, regardless of circumstances.)

Sounds like the 25-06 is a little nasty (muzzle blast) which is no fun. That was one I was considering.

The 7x57 and 257 Bob are great rounds, but availability is limited, in both guns and cartridges.

Had a 260, didn't do much for me, either.

The 7mm-08 I like. That may end up being the one. It is well balanced, and versatile.

I have always like the 308. The Reduced/Managed recoil loads available makes that one attractive in the 6.5 lb Stevens. It really is all that would be needed, power wise, here.

I have a 270, but I want here to have "her own" rifle.

Thanks for the input.

The 30-06 is so vanilla, it almost no fun anymore.

Val · « **Reply #10 on:** August 24, 2006, 01:24:30 PM »

Have a look at the .280 Remington. It fires a 7mm pellet and will drop just about anything. I use 140 grain Accubonds in mine and I dropped a 170 lb pig with one shot, in June.

kudzu · « **Reply #11 on:** August 24, 2006, 03:05:31 PM »

35 Rem, If "her" likes the 270, let that be "hers", and go shopping fer yeself!!!!!

victorcharlie · « **Reply #12 on:** August 24, 2006, 03:56:18 PM »

Don't want to get into a .243 debate, but I've killed well over 50 deer with it.....fine deer caliber for southern deer.......

That said, a gas operated BAR in 308 would be a low recoiling rifle.......cut the stock down a little and add a limbsaver and it would sure be sweet......

But hey....that's not a Stevens......

All of the Stevens are pretty light in weight........but I think they make managed recoil rounds for the .308.....

If I remember correctly your a handloader, so you could probably make any of the choices work.......but 308 ammo is cheap enough and available enough........

beemanbeme · « **Reply #13 on:** August 25, 2006, 05:03:13 AM »

smart move to dismiss the .243.

If you have no interest in the .260 --store bought ammo would be a problem, then you're gonna need to go with the 7-08 --IMO the best choice for a hunting rifle for everything east of the big river-- or the Bob.
I don't know about the Stevens but for some makes of rifle they have an after market stock called a "cadet" which has a shorter length of pull that some women and kids find handy.

flintlock · « **Reply #14 on:** August 25, 2006, 10:51:28 AM »

Yep, I wouldn't get her a .243...Too many deer wounded up with that little pop gun....
Only problem....I can't find anyone that can give me some cold, hard facts on deer that
they wounded, or the ammo used...I don't know how big a hole you want to make in a deer,
I have seen holes the size of a quarter (with the old Remington Premium SPBT) and I have seen
1 1/2 to 2 inch holes (with Hornadys 100 gr Custom, 100 gr CoreLokts, Federal Premium 85gr HPBT)
The size hole made in a whitetail has as much to do with the bullet design as the diameter of that bullet.....

Nope I wouldn't get the lady a .243, because if you do......She's gonna prove you wrong....You might even have to get one for yourself.....

I've only used a .243 since 1980, killed 130-140 deer with...With a high shoulder or a high lung they drop in their tracks....And its kinda neat because you get to see them!!! With a center lung shot...they still run 20-60 yards...about like my younger brothers .270 will do...Or my middle brothers 7mm-08 and .280 do...

Remember when Jim Carmichael wrote a story back in the late '70s...Where he killed a couple of Roe deer in England with a .223....It ain't thunder that kills....Its lightning!!!!

I have a cousin...about 45 years old...grew up in the country, so he has probably hunted more than 80% of the folks on here....He went out and bought a .270 short mag last year....Proceded to wound up 3 deer....Didn't find any of them....He flinches....A lot of hunter flinch....Problem is when that big old hole is put into the guts....The deer is buzzard bait....If your wife can handle a 7mm-08 then more power to her...If she can't, do her a favor and introduce her to a .243....You may get a surprise....

35Rem · « **Reply #15 on:** August 25, 2006, 11:56:59 AM »

Hmmm....
Never called the 243 a pop gun, quite the contrary, it is pretty loud, and fast.

Quote

Only problem....I can't find anyone that can give me some cold, hard facts on deer that
they wounded, or the ammo used..

I think you'll have a hard time finding people to admit they wounded and/or lost deer.

The 243 makes a fine round for what it was intended for, in my view, a varmint round. 6mm holes don't bleed enough for me. I personally know people who have had problems with the 243 and deer. Period. I don't have enough confidence in that small of a bullet penetrating much bone, which may be needed in a less than perfect shot. I also want exit holes that will bleed, every time.

I am no magnum freak by any means, I shoot 35 Remingtons. The closest I have to a "magnum" is the 270 Win., which seems like overkill a lot of times.

Quote

Roe deer in England with a .223....It ain't thunder that kills....Its lightning!!!!

I think shot placement is the deciding factor there.
I would, however, never recommend anything under 6mm for large game. I don't believe in it.

I'm a little "old school" in that I think that bullet diameter plays a big role in transfered energy, which is what affects felt impact.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #16 on:** August 25, 2006, 03:00:24 PM »

Why not get her a .35 Remington?.....not much recoil, and IMO, less than a .243.

35Rem · « **Reply #17 on:** August 25, 2006, 05:36:26 PM »

She ain't gettin my gun!!

jvs · « **Reply #18 on:** August 25, 2006, 10:37:04 PM »

Too bad they dont offer that Stevens 200 in .35 Rem. It tops the list as my favorite caliber, followed closely by the .308 and .30-06. It all comes down to where I will be going that particular day, and how far I may have to shoot.

I suppose a .308 or 7mm-08 might be the one to try. Possibly a cheap shooting .30-30 in another brand might work. People constantly overlook the lowly .30-30 because it is an older caliber. But buy as if you were buying for yourself, just in case she decides that hunting and shooting isnt for her.

A decent low end new rifle shouldnt cost more than $150 more than the Stevens. I would even check the used racks first. They usually come all decked out.

35Rem · « **Reply #19 on:** August 26, 2006, 04:16:42 AM »

Quote

A decent low end new rifle shouldnt cost more than $150 more than the Stevens.

I think the Stevens is just that, but it costs "$150" less, or more. To me accuracy is important and I expect it to be that. And being a Savage, there are add on options out there, but they aren't really needed.

I can't see a problem w/ the Stevens, except it has the same problem as the Handi Rifles, they're inexpensive.

tanoose · « **Reply #20 on:** August 27, 2006, 06:20:12 AM »

You can always get a 308 or 30/06 and put a mercury recoil supressor in the stock my friend did this to his 30/06 and he says it now kicks like is 243 and they can be bought for $35.00 i plan to try one on my 45/70.

1marty · « **Reply #21 on:** August 27, 2006, 01:37:30 PM »

Go with the 7-08; I have a rem 700sps in 7-08 with a nikon 3x7 32mm; the round is very accurate and recoil is less than my 30-30 Win 94. I have yet to have a deer run more than 50 yards after shooting it. Bullet placement is more important and therefore I might suggest practice practice and more practice.

nomosendero · « **Reply #22 on:** August 27, 2006, 03:49:09 PM »

It appears that Whitetail is the only target. My assumption is because it is Whitetail only & she is a fairly new shooter that the ranges will be short to moderate, right?

Under those conditions, I would go with the 7-08. Install a new limbsaver pad even on this light kicker & now you have a gun that "feels" like a 243 but will be somewhat more decisive on any size
Deer at any angle out to the range you more than likely want. More inexperienced hunters seldom pay attention to angles & especially with big Northern Whitetails this matters. With the 7-08 & the pad you can have your cake & eat it.

Brithunter · « **Reply #23 on:** August 27, 2006, 09:13:29 PM »

Well now if this is true and he actually did this and not just qrite it up:-

Quote

Remember when Jim Carmichael wrote a story back in the late '70s...Where he killed a couple of Roe deer in England with a .223....It ain't thunder that kills....Its lightning!!!!

Then he broke the law. Since 1968 the minimum calibre for Deer is and has been .240" which must produce a minimum muzzle engergy of 1700 ft lbs.

Now as to choosing the Wife a gun. Persoanlly I would take her to some stores which have a good selection and let her try handling them and see what she likes. If she shooses it herself I have a feeling that she is going to like it all the more and chambering and cartridge may not be so high on the agenda.

Brithunter · « **Reply #24 on:** August 27, 2006, 09:21:55 PM »

Well now if this is true and he actually did this and not just qrite it up:-

Quote

Remember when Jim Carmichael wrote a story back in the late '70s...Where he killed a couple of Roe deer in England with a .223....It ain't thunder that kills....Its lightning!!!!

Then he broke the law. Since 1968 the minimum calibre for Deer is and has been .240" which must produce a minimum muzzle engergy of 1700 ft lbs.

Now as to choosing the Wife a gun. Persoanlly I would take her to some stores which have a good selection and let her try handling them and see what she likes. If she shooses it herself I have a feeling that she is going to like it all the more and chambering and cartridge may not be so high on the agenda.

Dobermann · « **Reply #25 on:** August 28, 2006, 02:11:01 AM »

Here in Ireland I use a .270 but the most common calibre used by most of the best deer stalkers I know is 6.5 x 55 swe. tried out a sako 75 stainless in 6.5x55 last week it was shooting .37" 5 shot groups at 100m (much less kick than the .270) I am about to order a HS Precision HTR in 6.5 x 55 but will have to wait eight months but I hope it will be worth it.

Regards

Dob