Author Topic: 375 Epstein (Read 1354 times)

jyuke · « **on:** June 15, 2006, 08:01:01 AM »

Wondering if anyone has any info on the epstein cartridge I am told it will run with the 375 WBy for velocities, and have dibbs on on.
I have seen only one data load that showed IMR 4350 at 77.0g that pushed a 300 gr slug 2800 fps.
Seems fast to me? since the H&H is only 2600 +-

Yukon Jack · « **Reply #1 on:** June 15, 2006, 08:03:36 PM »

That's a little too hot. The Epstein is a 338 Win Mag necked up to 375. Check out Wolfe Publishing's "Wildcat Cartridges II" for the story behind the cartridge and loads for it.

From Mike Epstein's "Big Mike's .375 Epstein" written by Mike Epstein and published by Wolfe Publishing in 'Wildcat Cartridges II'.

Quote:
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So, "armed" with a 26" .375 Star premium barrel and the Savage 110L action, I journeyed to RCBS in Oroville, California, and there my barrel was chambered with a .338 Winchester Magnum case body reamer coupled to a .375 pilot. The neck was cut .125-inch longer than the standard .338 neck, yeilding .456-inch or 122 percent of bullet diameter.
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Distance to shoulder was 2.055", width at shoulder of .492" with a shoulder angle of 25 degrees. Overall case length of 2.605".

jyuke · « **Reply #2 on:** June 16, 2006, 05:43:49 AM »

Thank you all for responding to my first post on the 375 Epstein, the truth of the matter not alot is known about this rifle cartridge but I was given the Artical and book by BIG MIKE'S EPSTEIN, founder of the 375 Epstein

I have suggested a load that some had said too much however the skinny on the epstein is a fat widened neck mad from a 375 H&H case, or a 338 case does infact out perform the H&H by a landslide and almost ( buy 30 fps) performs to velocities close to the 378 Wby with 25-30% less powder. It realy is an increadible case design. Both showing 5500 FT LBS of energy.
The other remarkable fact of this cartridge case comb accuracey is best with high preasure, Mikes pet load showing 3/4 inch groups with 77g of 4350 at 5537 ftbs and the slower round opened up.

Chrony resulty show a 270 gr slug loaded with 78 g IMR 4350 pushing 3043 fps vs the 378 with 108 gr of 4350 pushing a 270 grain slug at 3078 fps, awesome power.
Mikes original design was to match the H&H velosities, but this case design exceeded all expectations, and beca,me one of the best efficient cartridges in the Magnum family.

So the skinny is its its very close to the 378 with less powder, and less preasure, Their are rummors floating around due to the lack of info on this Epstein Mike never pushed it harder, but there is still room in the case!! LOL!

Should be a heck of a CAT to play with.
Regards

Yukon Jack · « **Reply #3 on:** June 16, 2006, 05:42:56 PM »

You aren't going to get something for nothing. Less of the same Powder and higher velocity with same bullets can only mean higher pressure... If you are going to push this thing to 378 Wby velocities (an improved belted 416 Rigby case) you are very high pressurized. No magic cases or bullets out there. Be careful.

This is essentially the same as the 375 Taylor and should be able to duplicate the 375 H&H Mag FACTORY loads, but you'll do so at higher pressures.

jyuke · « **Reply #4 on:** June 17, 2006, 09:13:43 AM »

I agree,
But a 338 case it is not a 338 will not work just tried catting it, you need a 375 H&H it shortens it blows it out , and lengthens the neck with little trimming to the brass?

I read the artical about wild cats and it show the AVG vel at 2650-2750 with a 270 gr bullet and 2700 for a 300 gr,
Iguess a 150 behind teh 378 but should still deliver a heck of a whoolop!

nomosendero · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2006, 04:21:54 PM »

Those velocities sound more logical.

Yukon Jack · « **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2006, 05:26:05 PM »

Quote from: jyuke

I agree,
But a 338 case it is not a 338 will not work just tried catting it, you need a 375 H&H it shortens it blows it out , and lengthens the neck with little trimming to the brass?

I read the artical about wild cats and it show the AVG vel at 2650-2750 with a 270 gr bullet and 2700 for a 300 gr,
Iguess a 150 behind teh 378 but should still deliver a heck of a whoolop!

A 338 Win Mag is a blown-out, shortened and necked down 375 H&H. All of the 2.5" Winchester magnum cases are shortened and blown out 375 H&H's!!!

Again, you aren't going to decrease case volume, decrease powder charge, use the same powder and same bullets and get higher velocities UNLESS it is done at higher pressures. That is what makes the old 375 H&H such a treasure! It does everything the shorter wildcatted 375's will do (and more) at lower pressures. If you load to same pressure, the H&H will exceed the less volume cases everytime. You can't cheat physics. The Epstein and Taylor were created not long after Winchester brought out the 2.5" belted case. If these cartridges equalled or somehow exceed the H&H, they would have replaced it many years ago.

I don't mean to be argumentative, just stating facts. There are no magic cases. You don't get something for nothing.

nomosendero · « **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2006, 06:16:20 PM »

Yukon Jack
True enough, I don't think anyone should see the Epstein as outperforming the H&H, rather I think it exists because you can have this round in a std. length long action like the Ruger77, for example, as that action will barely chamber the 300WM, & you can't seat a 180 out much at that.

Yukon Jack · « **Reply #8 on:** July 27, 2006, 09:27:54 AM »

jyuke and nomosendero,
Looks like you guys are going to get exactly this from Ruger and Hornady (well, without the belt). The 375 Ruger is in development and apparently is the 300 Win Mag (without the belt) necked to 375. With Hornady's proprietary powders, it could be very interesting, indeed!!!