Which is the more Accurate Rifle?

[Todd1700]

Tikkas or Rugers. I think it's no contest but what the hell lets see what everyone thinks.

[skb2706]

The one in the hands of the best shooter................

[Dave in VA]

Don't own a Tikka so it's not really fair for me to vote. :-D

However I've owned a few Ruger's and I have a couple that come to mind.

Old M77 243 I picked up 2nd hand.  1st 3 shot group @100 cover with a dime :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

M77 300 Win Mag I bought new in 1988.  Hunted with the factory irons till the mid 90's then put a 3.5 x 10 x 44 Simmons 44 Mag scope on it.  My GoTo rifle.  Every August/September I take her to the range, 3 shot group, still 2" high @100, she groups.5 to 1 with most factory 180's.  I haven't touched the scope knobs in a decade and anything I point it at gives up :-D  :-D  :-D

[Don Fischer]

The one in the hands of the best shooter................

That may be true but it wasn't always. I had a Parker Hale 1200 in 308 many years ago. It had a non-stress relieved barrel.

Anyway, I've never owned or shot a Tikka but I've owned a couple Rugers. I really liked those Rugers, got both in the early 70's, but I would never call either real accutate. Work with them as I did, they averaged at best 1 1/2" @ 100 yds. They were great hunting rifles that felt great in my hands and carried well. But a hunting rifle was all they would ever be. Come to think of it, that's not all that bad!

[skb2706]

Take six rifles...from six different manufacturers and give them to six guys using the same ammo. You are likely to get 5-6 different answers. Thus the only real answer would be the one in the hands of the best shooter.

[The Sodbuster]

With either one, they'll both shoot better than the guy pulling the trigger in 99% of the cases.

[Cement Man]

Todd,
Let me suggest that in order for such a poll to be meaningful, the pollster needs to have some sense of objectivity.  I think that there is not a factory rifle brand out there that cannot be bettered by one of another brand given differences in ammo, load development, shooter skill, etc.etc.  In order to really determine things like which brand of rifle is the most accurate - you need several samples of each, covering several different cartridges or calibers if you will, with comparisons between the two brands with the same cartridges, shooters, shooting conditions, etc.  I have to be honest too - I wouldn't vote because I have not had much experience with Tikkas.  Lots of people like them, they must get good results. I believe they are fine rifles. I have had very good results with my Rugers.  They shoot better than I can in the field, which is my primary use for a rifle.  I own and have owned several brands of rifles, and I find that my Rugers serve my purposes exceedingly well.

[Doghunter]

I've owned both and shot both-- no compairson-- come on people-- Tikkas are better rifles period!!!

[Cement Man]

The other day I went to our local gun store to pick up a milsurp I had purchased.  In order to refresh my memory on Tikkas, I asked to examine a Tikka T3 in .308.  I handled it, looked it over, tried the trigger pull.  I'll tell you, it was a nicely balanced, light, "lively feeling" rifle.  The trigger pull was really nice. The bolt worked smoothly. The polymer, or plastic doesn't bother me, nor does it attract me.  I assume it is a very accurate rifle.  Cosmetically it was decent, no better, and the butt pad was very poorly fitted.  That could be remedied very easily, but does not speak well for qc.
I simply like everything about my Rugers better.  Looks, scope rings, safety system, floor plate and release, yada, yada.  Even if the Tikka is a one hole shooter, which it isn't, it woudn't have any practical or useable advantage for me over my Rugers because mine are all finely acccurate rifles, beyond my ability to shoot them in the field. My Rugers deliver all of the useable range and accuracy that the cartridge, and I, can deliver for my use.  

"Better" is in the eyes of the beholder.

[Todd1700]

"Better" is in the eyes of the beholder.

Well I asked which was more accurate. Not the much more broad and nonspecific term of "Better". Although a Tikka would still get my vote in that category as well. Some people would vote for a Ruger simply because it is American made and they like that Better. All kind of reasons start to fall into the frey with a term that broad.

My Rugers deliver all of the useable range and accuracy that the cartridge, and I, can deliver for my use.

Well a shotgun with a slug shoots about as accurate as most people need a gun to shoot at the ranges that most of them can actually hit anything. To each his own but to me thats a pretty low standard for even a factory rifle.

I wouldn't vote because I have not had much experience with Tikkas.

I respect you for that. I can assure you that if everyone who voted had placed the same restriction on themselves (in other words having experience with both guns) then the victory margin for Tikka would be even greater.

[Cement Man]

Todd,
I wasn't responding to you, I was responding directly to the previous post by Doghunter.  You will note that he used the term "better".  Quote and correct him if you want, but since he is a Tikka fan and agrees with you, maybe you wouldn't want to correct him.

I already addressed the term accuracy in a previous post.  In order for you to demonstrate some rifle brand-specific accuracy superiority, you need to have a reasonable number of samples, covering a variety of cartridges, and tested under identical circumstances.  Not the smattering of unverified and anecdotal results that are reported in a casual forum.  And really, you must be objective in assessing the results - and you are not.  You are a Tikka fan.  Nothing wrong with that, they are fine rifles - here's to you and here's to Tikkas.

You don't need to type things in bold or quotation marks, make analogies or anything else to enlighten me. We aren't talking about shotgun slugs and you know it.  We're talking about bolt action rifles.

My Rugers will all shoot some factory loads within an inch, maybe better if I pursued it.  I have friends who have bolt Rugers that have gotten dime sized groups with theirs - that I have witnessed, with factory ammo.  I personally do not take calipers to the range when shooting my hunting rifles because I am happy with the results that I get, and I have witnessed some finely accurate Rugers.  If you fairly tested a representative sample of Tikkas in various calibers against a like sampling of Rugers, what I am saying is I don't think the winner would have enough of a margin to change my opinion on my choice of rifles.

You and I do not agree on our choices between Rugers and Tikkas.  It is that simple. I respect your opinion, which is just what it is.

[Sigma]

Tikka.

Why? To Illustrate: If you were to be given a choice of a Tikka or Ruger out of the box and told that you would win a prize of $1000.00 if you could put 3 rounds in a 1" circle on first try, would you think of trying the Ruger?

Regards

[Cement Man]

Ummmm..........  I have to be honest.  I would think about it.  Now if the prize was that I could keep the rifle that I used, I'd choose the Ruger.  :grin:

[Sigma]

Some things are just hard to dispute. I'm not knocking Rugers - I own a GP100 revolver which I love - but in the the rifle category, if Ruger could provide an accuracy guarantee like Tikka, they would.

If the poll was between Weatherby and Tikka, things would get tough... :wink:

Regards

[Redhawk1]

I have owned both and my Tikka is a tack driver. It is a 300 win Mag. I no longer own my Ruger in 30-06. I would have to go with a Tikka any day.  

[Todd1700]

And really, you must be objective in assessing the results - and you are not. You are a Tikka fan. Nothing wrong with that, they are fine rifles - here's to you and here's to Tikkas.

Am I biased towards Tikkas now? You bet. But you act as if I started out that way and therefore Ruger never hand a chance. Let me give you a news flash. I owned 3 Rugers and shot extensively at least 12 more before I ever held a Tikka in my hands. Since that first Tikka I have shot not only my own but the Tikkas owned by 8 of my friends and family. All are so much more accurate than the Rugers it isn't even close. So am I biased? Yep but due to experience.

[Todd1700]

Interesting read

Here is the article with some names ommitted for OPSEC and PERSEC reasons. My partner does UC work and would not appreciate his name on the net.



The Tikka T3
By XXXXXXXX

As a firearms guy I am always eyeballing a new toy or object that I am intrigued by. I generally try to keep up to date on the latest high quality guns coming on to the market. Sometimes it is hard to form an opinion based upon what you read in the commercial gun magazines. Every gun it seems that is featured in a magazine is the latest, greatest thing since smokeless powder.

However it is not very often that a new gun really trips my trigger so to speak. I have grown rather jaundiced and cynical with all the advertisements spouting about the latest “Spec Op” “CQB” “Marine” “Ninja” blaster that only the most elite government and law enforcement agencies are using. Usually they simply have more attachments for accessories that Walter Wannabe has been convinced he must have to be truly “Tactical”. It has been my experience that simple reliable gear works best.

Highly accurate rifles are one area of interest for me. Be they called “sniper” rifles or “tactical” rifles or even “precision” rifles, I don’t care. For me it is all about performance on demand rather than the CDI ( chicks dig it) factor.

One new rifle on the American market that has not gotten a lot of press but I believe soon will is the rifle from the Finnish company Tikka. Tikka rifles are made in the same factory as Sako rifles. Sako has been a well known manufacturer of military, target and sporting rifles for a very long time. Recently I bought a Tikka T3 heavy barrel in 308 Winchester caliber. The factory accuracy guarantee of 3 shots under one inch for their sporting models peaked my interest. You will not get that from Remington or Winchester.

The rifle itself is rather sleek and unusual looking. However I was interested in its performance in the field. I mounted a top of the line Leupold MK 4 6.5x20 on the gun using Burris two piece bases. This is a truly fine piece of glass and it actually costs more than the rifle itself. On that note I have never understood why guys mount a $39 dollar Simmons or Tasco on a $500 rifle and then can’t figure out why their gun just is not up to par.

Anyways, I set out to test my new rifle. I was quite impressed right out of the box. During the barrel break in process I was getting sub .75" groups at 100 yards from the bench. Always a good sign. The more I shot it, the better it got. About this time DetectiveXXX XXX decided he wanted to play with the gun. He spent an afternoon with it and went down to the local Sportsmans Warehouse and ordered an identical one. With a little load development between the two of us, we found a hunting bullet load that would shoot 5 shot groups under a half inch. For those of you that are not into rifles, that is super impressive. We started shooting a lot of 1/4 inch 3 shot groups. Not always of course, but often enough to know it was not a fluke. Suffice to say these guns shoot way beyond their modest price.

The Tikka is rather light weight for a heavy barrel rifle. It tips the scales at only 8 pounds.The stock design, with its raised cheek piece and flat fore end make it a fine field piece. The barrel is an odd 23 and 3/8ths inches. It is fed from a single stack, detachable box magazine that holds five rounds in 308. Overall I was impressed but I still wanted to give a good test.

What better way to test the gun than the NRA Law Enforcement precision rifle (sniper) instructor school. So I took vacation and off to the school I went.

Anyways, I was the only guy present not shooting a Remington 308. However everyone shot Leupold scopes. By the end of the week it was apparent that the handling characteristics of the Tikka had much to offer over the Remingtons. The five round detachable box magazine made many of the drills so easy it was like cheating. The light weight of the rifle made many of the snap shooting drills and movement to contact drills a relative breeze. The only negative aspect of the rifle I found was that the ejection port was rather small and hard to get my big fingers in to compared to the Remington 700. My biggest problem was that I was afraid I was going to run out of ammo as most of the cadre at the academy wanted to try the gun.

I returned to XX just in time to shoot the XX State Sniper Championships with Detective XX as my partner. The airlines had managed to disassemble my bolt and screw with my gun to the point of temporary inoperability. Fortunately XX brought two guns. One being an identical Tikka 308 with a 4x14 Leupold scope. I knew from previous experience that we shoot pretty close to the same point of impact so only minor adjustments were made for me to use the gun. XX, using the Tikka posted the best 3 shot group out of 50 some odd teams. He shot from the prone at 100 yards and shot about a 1/4 “ group. Not bad considering the caliber of the military and law enforcement teams present. He took home a new MK IV Leupold for his “best three shot group” prize. In the end a third place was earned. We were pleased considering we were shooting against guys with three to five thousand dollar rigs.

In short, the Tikka has a lot to offer for a very modest price tag. One should be able to pick one up from Sportsmans Warehouse for around $700. That is flat out inexpensive for a precision rifle of this quality. After looking at a couple of examples I brought in to one of the local city agencies, they opted for new Tikka 308s for their snipers. A good choice both in terms of performance and budget. So if you are in the market for a long range hunting, competition, or work gun, give one of these a look.

My only gripe is I have spent way too much money building custom guns that cost two to three times as much, only to equal the Tikka in performance.

[glshop20]

Some rifles are generally, typically more accurate then others but alot of things can have an effect on this.  How the rifle is broken in, twist rate/bullet weight and compatability of the loads you use for your individual rifle.  I have seen some real inexpensive rifles that shoot great and some custom jobs that were not worth putting ammo through.

[Cement Man]

Todd,
Thanks for the "news flash" about your journey of discovery.  That's my first personal news flash.  Thanks for sharing.  

You state that I act like you have always been biased against Rugers.  I don't know where you get that notion.  Our discussion has centered around this thread, which you started 8 days ago with "I think it's no contest.........."  I never implied that you have always been biased against Rugers, only that you had a bias when you started this poll.

There's nothing wrong with preferences or biases, as long as they are honest and don't hurt anyone.  You like Tikkas - I salute you.  Between the two choices, I have had and witnessed excellent results with Rugers, and I like the design better.  That's all subjective, so there's a time where people just have to agree to disagree.  

Hey, with all of the problems in the world today - having so many good rifles to disagree about is a pretty good problem to have, isn't it?  And, good shooting with your Tikkas.  I mean that sincerely.  

[Grubbs]

Todd1700.....great stuff.  I love my 3 Tikkas too ( 2 T-3's and 1 Whitetail).  Unbelievable performance at this price.  I'll have more  I'm sure.

[Grubbs]

Todd1700.....great stuff.  I love my 3 Tikkas too ( 2 T-3's and 1 Whitetail).  Unbelievable performance at this price.  I'll have more  I'm sure.