Best filler for reduced loads?

[bustedknee]

I have never done reduced loads before.  But now, I want to try some reduced loads for my 458 Win mag Encore barrel.

I was shopping for a 45-70 barrel when I ran across the 458 barrel and could not resist buying it.

I would like to get into mid-range 45-70.  But all charts warn about reduced loads.

Is Cream of Wheat a good filler or would another material be better?

Anyone have any suggested loads?

[Smokin Joe]

There are a few reduced loads listed in reloading manuals as well as the Lyman cast bullet handbook. I don't care for fillers.....you run the risk of ringing the chamber.
 Stick with the medium-fast powders with no filler.

[warf73]

There should be a good reduced load (I used the lowest charge weight in the manual for the bullet powder combo) in your manual using IMR7828 very bulky powder slow burning.

I use this powder for my 300gr bullets in my 460WBY I have the bullet running in the low 2200fps range if I remember correctly. Extremely mild recoil.

If you want to go really slow with lead slugs I would call IMR for a starting load using there New Trail Boss powder.

As for fillers in bottle neck cases you are asking for trouble.

Warf

[bustedknee]

From my research there appears to be be two camps on this issue.
One group says fillers are unsafe - no way!
The other says no problem especially in straight-walled cases.

I would prefer not to use a filler.  I will give that IMR7828 a try.

[Lone Star]

Up until their #48 manual, Lyman recommended fillers for their reduced loads in many cartridges, including the .45-70.  They no longer list any loads with fillers.  There is a risk of damage or loading error; it is far better to use a powder which gives good performance without a filler.

Many have used slow powders like H4981 in compressed charges for .45-70 loads.  These give mild pressures, but often terrible fouling due to partially-burned powder grains; they also give higher recoil.  I would recommend using listed loads with powders like RL-7 and AA-5744.

[Judson]

I do not know what the big problem is about fillers.    If you want to shoot many of the Nitro Express cartridges you have no choice but to use a filler as these cartridges were cordite bases and rather large to say the least.    The .450 # 2 N.E. case is 3.5" long and 100 grains of the recomended powder for the 480 grain bullet only fills it about 3/4 full at best, another good powder for it, RL 15 fills it even less.    As with any loading you have to pay close attention to what you are doing and there is plenty of room in the case many times for a double charge if you are not with it!     As to a filler, foam as in the gray foam packing materal or the stuff used in many gun cases is as far as I am concerned the best.   You cut it out with a punch and it stays down over the powder and there is no need to weigh it.    It leaves no residue and is cheep and easy to find.   In the .450 NE # 2 I use a punch which is .50" I.D. and use enough foam so that the bullet slightly compresses the foam and it workes great in my double rifle.   One problem with using very slow powders mentioned in the book Shooting The British Double Rifles is that these slow burning powders can result in eratic ignition and bad fowling problems in the larger cases though in some thing rather small like the 45/70 case I would not think this would be a problem.     One thing to keep in mind though is that if you want a light load to reduce recoil slow powders may not be the way to go as powder weight has to be included into the equasion for figuring out recoil.

[Lone Star]

I do not know what the big problem is about fillers.    If you want to shoot many of the Nitro Express cartridges you have no choice but to use a filler as these cartridges were cordite bases and rather large to say the least....

Not all loaders of the big NE cartridges agree with you.  See the final paragraph on the page below.

http://www.african-hunter.com/450_nitro_express.htm

.

[Judson]

That article on the British cartridges iis a good one but hie comment on the .450 NE ia a different cartridge then the .450 # 2 N.E.    The .450 # 2 N.E. uses a case 3.5" long and loaded rounds are 4.25" to 4.5" long.

[smk]

Slow burning powders are generally the worst powders to use for reduced loads. I wouldn't use 7828, unless you only want it to be slightly reduced. Be very careful with this or any slow burning powder and don't go below the listed loads. Far better choices would be Trail Boss or IMR SR 4759 which are made for reduced loads and require no filler. The SR 4759 can also be loaded up to almost full velocity - it's all I use in the 45-70 full velocity or reduced.

[crash87]

You dont state what bullets you want to use for a reduced load, but if you want to go cast, I say this because I havn't use this powder with jacketed bullets. Accurate Arms XMP 5744 is a powder designed around the Big Sharps cartridges, to be used without fillers. There are loads listed for the .458 Mag. in there manual. Its "the" powder I use when shooting cast in my 2 .416 Rigby's. (Ruger #1 & CZ550) I also use it in my Sharps '75, 40/65 Win. You might want to check it out. CRASH87

[bustedknee]

Using 350 grain copper jacketed bullets I used 3031 powder. 

With measured loads for 2000 fps, I had some failures to ignite and slow to ignite!  Using old powder.  Not good.

Using new powder and the published data for 2200 fps I get reliable ignition, acceptable recoil and good accuracy.

No filler required.

[S.S.]

I have been using reduced loads in my .45-70 for years ?
I have heard of folks using cream of wheat but I never have.
I use poly-fill (The stuff you pack into pillow and such)
You can get it at any walmart or craft store.
It adds no hardly no weight to the charge but it fills the airspace.
I agree with the previous post about botthenecked cases,
I do not do it

[warf73]

bustedknee

Great to hear that you have found a load for your 458win.

Warf

[GEMSBUCK]

why use any fillers at all? I load 63grs IMR 3031  under a 405 JSP in my 458WM when I want a reduced load similar to a 45-70's warm load

[S.S.]

I use all kinds of reduced loads in my .45-70.
I have a load for a single round ball , Multiple round balls.
A 45-70 is an interesting case to load for, you can do all kinds of stuff with it.
Creating loads is the best part of reloading to me.
A .458 should be just about as versatile.