Author Topic: PRS we need a BP .45 (.454) 200 gr. Mold (Read 1997 times)

Brasskisser · « **on:** March 31, 2003, 04:07:30 AM »

Well we solved one problem in the .45 Colt when PRS got Lee to design a 250 gr. mold that would cast .454 bullets with that great big,deep grease groove. My hats off to you, cause that sucker works great! no more fouling in BP rifles. If you shoot CAS BP .45's you got to get this mold from Lee.
Now, for those of use who like to shot Schoefield brass in place of .45 Colt brass in the single actions, we need a six ganger from Lee that will do the same thing for the 200 gr. BP shooter. By far the best solution would be to have Lee make this if they would in the six gang molds. I hate casting handgun bullets in single and double cavity molds. What do you think guys, can we get PRS to work some more magic? Would there be interest in such a mold? It there something else out there that will cast a 'GOOD" 200 gr. BP bullet? Makin' smoke is getting easier! Thanks PRS.

Pigeonroost Slim · « **Reply #1 on:** March 31, 2003, 09:53:40 AM »

I need more information 'cause I don't shoot .45's in S&W brass. There is more to the PRS design than just the big groove; so throw me a few bones here.

Are ya gonna shoot these in a rifle too? Is .454" preferredr over .452"? Is there some practical limitation in bullet length. Is 200 gr THE ultimate wieght; I think I recall 230 as the weight of the old Army boolit --- not sure though.

It will cost somebody(s) ?$100.00? extra. We will need a point man. I am willng to do the technical sketch. Lee does not design your bullet, they just make what you design.

Thanks fer da thanks!

Try the lube; you will love it!

prs

Brasskisser · « **Reply #2 on:** March 31, 2003, 10:23:14 AM »

PRS, I know how Lee works on this stuff. I will have to weight till I get home to check OAL and bullet length. No- I will not shot this bullet in any rifle. Yes, .454 is much better than .452. I will do some more research then you can coach me and perhaps I will be better prepared when I call Lee,. And yes these things originally shot 230 gr. however, If I can make a 200 gr design to care enough lube for BP, this would be the most desireable. Heck, if I am going to have to shot 230 gr. in order to carry enough lube, to heck with it, I would just load the one you design and shot 250 gr. That's an idea anyway, glad I thought of that. I think I'll try it.

Mason Stillwell · « **Reply #3 on:** March 31, 2003, 02:18:57 PM »

First let me say that I use the PRS bullet in my 45 Colt rifles.I think it is without a doubt the best bullet on the market for the rifle and BP.
Now I use a 200 gr Rapine hollow base 2 lube grove for the pistols.This is ONE FANTISTIC bullet for the Pistols (Especially in the Schofield)But (oh yea there is a well but)It is a single cavity mould SLOW to make!!!
So would I like to have a 200 in a prs bullet,YOU BET a six cavity mould with HUGE lube groves. Let me know when this is aviable. I will buy one probably 2

Pete :wink:

williamlayton · « **Reply #4 on:** April 01, 2003, 12:59:08 AM »

i'm lost here---what is the difference in a schofield and a lc--that is, why is it a difference size? dumb question from a dumb lurker.
blessings :oops: :oops:

Pigeonroost Slim · « **Reply #5 on:** April 01, 2003, 03:01:27 AM »

Williamlayton; the S&W .45 case is a bit shorter and has a slightly larger rim. It can use the same bullets, and I think the same crimp groove depth will serve too inorder to get the proper OAL for the loaded cartrige (Brasskisser, ya better check that deatail out).

I suggest we consider Lee 90697 as a basic design. Expand the mold dimensions a tad to yield a .454" as cast in WW metal boolit. Add about a skoochie to the base drive band thickness. Add a few+ thous to the area occupied by the lube groove, have the shoulders of the lube groove cut at 35 degrees, have the depth of the lube groove to be equal to the smaller of the two following calculations; 1: overal mold diameter minus the (mold metplat diameter plus 2 thous), or 2: Overall mold diameter minus ( overall mold diameter X .707). Either way yer gonna be looking at about a groove depth of.137" or a central lube groove area core of about .32". In flight stability is a matter of taking what ya get -- but I feel comfortable with the prospects since the original PRS is apparently well stabilized. I believe I have the actual values for the skoochies and tads in my notes.

prs

Brasskisser · « **Reply #6 on:** April 01, 2003, 05:03:37 AM »

Pigeonroast Slim, Wow this makes my head hirt. Sounds like you been thinkin' again. Your last post sounds good to me. I really do not have to worry about OAL because I shot these in SAA chambered for .45 Colt. The bullet could stick out the end about three/fourths of an inch and still shot in these guns. I do not have the time (and perhpaps not the brain power) to think this stuff through, and besides "I'm lazier than dirt!".
Lee seams to be paying attention to some degree the needs of CAS and this is definately a step in the right direction. If I were them I would definetly catolog this mold and advertise it in both SASS and NCOWS publications. There are a bunch of cowboy out there who would want this design. Perhaps Lee could "barrow" the Rapine hollow cavity design and make a six gang mold. What do you think? Is that possible because it is a good design. I just do not want single cavity moulds when casting handgun bullets (remember, I'm lazier than dirt!).

Pigeonroost Slim · « **Reply #7 on:** April 01, 2003, 06:53:12 AM »

First, let me correct a math error in my above post. The approx lube groove depth is NOT going to be .137, I forgot to divide by 2; so its gonna be approx .069" -- that is similar to the PRS.

Brasskisser, I was referring to the bullet OAL and NOT the cartrige OAL. I strongly advise keeping the cartrige OAL standard -- wich means keeping the crimp groove at the same distance from the metplat. Thus a longer bullet is going to occupy more space in the case and ya get a bit less powder capacity.

Lee can do hollow base desigs, but they cost more and I believe they are strictly a single cavity affair. A six cavity hollow based design would be a real accomlishment to create. The rapine design is an oldie and goodie for revolvers; but I don't know that it functions as well in long barrels; which is part of the justification for makeing the PRS in the first place (also getting a 6 cavity mold for quick production.

prs

Pigeonroost Slim · « **Reply #8 on:** April 04, 2003, 02:55:05 AM »

I have also been asked to consider this project by some folks on the SASS Wire and also over at the Frontier Spot. Snakebite made a good observation -- his variation of my design for the .38/.357mag was made to that the loaded cartrige OAL would be standard .357mag length when the bullet was loaded in a .38spcl case. This lets the common rifles chambered for .357mag work as slick as oyster snot when the ammo is loaded with cheaper .38spcl brass. Some .45 Colt rifles are persnickity about OAL too and Schoefiled length cases may jamb.

If I follow Snakebite's lead and make a longer boolit that is at or just under 1.6" (1.58) loaded Schoefield cartridge OAL would that suit y'all? Or would ya be best served with a bullet that is Schoefiled lenght in a Schoefield case and Colt length in a Colt case? It may be possible to have our cake and eat it too -- but that would require more bathroom thinking than I have done, yet. I rekkon it boils down to two main factors -- (1.) if yer shooting irons are chambered in the shorter S&W length, then your case is gonna be short on powder room if we go with the longer design (maybe a good thing) and (2.) if'n ya want to use a true .45 Colt case and seat to correct OAL, then yer also gonna have lots of bullet in the case and reduced powder. I don't know that I would want to have to use S&W brass all the time in my .45 Colts. What y'all say?

Mason Stillwell · « **Reply #9 on:** April 04, 2003, 03:17:33 AM »

Well lets see here. My 73 likes the 45 COlt bullet and I shoot Schofield's in my pistols. Would I like a bullet I could use the Schofield case in my 73 YOU BET I WOULD> Hey on a fixed budget less powder means LESS EXPENSE.I could use the schofield round in both and save some money or continue using the PRS in 250 in my Rifle and still have a good bullet for my pistols in schofield.

To be very honest , I cannot really see me shooting anything in my 73 except the PRS in 250.( The results cannot get any better than they are).

So that being said . It still would be nice to have a schofield bullet that would allow me to use it in my 73 if I needed to.

Thanks Pard
Pete(What is a big fan of Piegonroost Bullets)Stillwell

Pigeonroost Slim · « **Reply #10 on:** April 04, 2003, 06:47:16 AM »

Mason or/and anybody; throw me a bone here!

Will your .73 reliably cycle normally loaded S&W rounds? What brands or varients will/won't. Since I don't use the S&W type brass, I jest dunno.

Is blow back gonna be a trouble with a 200gr pill in the rifles. I get none at present in my Marlin with the PRS and my reloading technique.

Mason Stillwell · « **Reply #11 on:** April 04, 2003, 10:46:02 AM »

I use Starline Brass. Their Schofield it good brass.

I get "0" blow back with the 250 prs bullet in my 73.

I was really interested in the 200 for my pistols. I think there will be blowback in my 73 with that light of a pill.
What do you think?

Mason

This is not very clear. I shoot 45 colt in the rifle. LONG COLT. and 45 Schofield in the pistols

Pete

Brasskisser · « **Reply #12 on:** April 14, 2003, 06:07:41 AM »

To: PRS, ya, I suppose if a good 200 BP grainer existed, some would be trying to use it in rifles, but the 250 grainer works so well for this purpose, the BP rifle shooters are now in business. What I wanted was a good 200 BP bullet to use in Schofield brass for the single action armies. I shot tons of the shorter brass and as long as you clean the guns thouroughly after shooting you can return to .45 Colt brass at anytime. I do this a lot. Full house .45 Colt BP loads are hoter then need be with 250 grainers for "stage" work. The BP Schofield is about right, but as of yet, there is no bullet design that carries enough lube. One cowboy's point of view. Keep up the good work. I do not think a little extra overall length on a Schofield bullet would hirt anything.

Pigeonroost Slim · « **Reply #13 on:** April 14, 2003, 07:19:04 AM »

Brasskisser;

Ya might have told me already, but have ya considered just using teh PRS 250 grain boolit in yer Schofield brass? Is taht gonna be too much recoil too?

prs

Brasskisser · « **Reply #14 on:** April 15, 2003, 03:13:20 AM »

PRS, ya I'm going to try the 250prs. I know that sucker will carry enough lube. The experiments continue. Peace!

Mason Stillwell · « **Reply #15 on:** August 06, 2003, 05:48:21 AM »

Although It is not a 200,RCBS makes a great 230 gr cowboy bullet with a very large lube grove and a flat point . That is what I sometimes use in my Schofield loads and Schofield is all I shoot in my Rugers. I use the PRS 250 for the rifle.

Hope this helps.
Mason