Deep Fork Cougars

[Ray Ford]

I have made reference to Cougars on a number of different posts.  I have talked about making casts of Big Cat tracks 5.75 inches from side to side during the 1960's in Alfalfa County on Eagle Chief Creek.  And I have suggested that some Big Foot incidents might actually be Big Cat sightings or activity.  But on the subject of Cougars or which ever of the several names that they are called:

During the late 1960's and the '70's, my cousin had what was once known as Milroy Bottom west of Okmulgee, Oklahoma, on Deep Fork River leased.  He ran both cattle and horses there.  One day, he found a Quarterhorse mare severely injured: she had a series of long rips from the front of both shoulders back and up.  It looked as if someone had taken a box knife and made 4 long cuts back and angling up on each shoulder.  It took some 200 stitches for the vet to close the cuts.  She almost bled to death.  (Horses can lose a greater percentage of their total blood volume than any other animal and still survive.  Their only really significant natural predator is large cats, and they have an innate fear of movement above them--which has to be overcome in the breaking process.  Big Cats come off bluffs and out of trees.)  There simply was no other explanation for the wounds than a Cougar.

On another occasion, he drove out to the bottom to feed.  He had gotten off work late, and it was dusky dark.  As he drove down Milroy Road, a large cat crossed the road in front of him.  In one jump, it came over the west fence to the middle of the road.  In one more jump, it went from the middle of the road over the east fence.  He claimed it was black!  But in the dark, who knows?

Milroy Bottom is now surrounded by the Okmulgee Wildlife Management Area and the Deep Fork WMA.  It is leased for hunting and so posted.
I have good memories of hunting 'coons there when I was in high school in Okmulgee.

I, personally, would get a big thrill of actually seeing a Big Cat--almost as much as from seeing a Big Foot.  

Good huntin'!

[jerkface11]

My grandpa lives near muldrow OK. And he's told me that he's seen a black cougar several times.

[NONYA]

there are no black phased mountian lions,a black panther is the south american cat.

[1911crazy]

Mountainlions are very elusive and very hard to see in the wilds.  Once you see one its awesome to see this big cat loose in the wilds.  I seen one and its between 180 to 200lbs its a pretty big puddy cat.

[Ray Ford]

My grandpa lives near muldrow OK. And he's told me that he's seen a black cougar several times.

Jerk,
I have heard a report of a "black panther" near the Arkansas River in south Tulsa County, but:  I spoke with a zoologist at one of the Oklahoma
State Universities, and he said, in effect, that there was no evidence that they exist.  I have heard references to "black panthers" just about all my life, but I don't know.

Shoot straight!

[Ray Ford]

there are no black phased mountian lions,a black panther is the south american cat.

Nonya,

One of the questions that I have had in my mind is about the possibility of what you call "black phased mountain lions."  In horses, duns are the result of the presence of a "dilution gene" acting on one of the base colors.  On a black, the gene produces a grulla.  (Did I spell that correctly?)  On a bay, the gene produces a buckskin.  On a sorrel, the gene produces a palomino.  Among horses, the dilution gene produces a camouflage color: the only true wild horses--those in Asia--are always some variation of dun.  I questioned, Is the Cougar color the result of a dilution gene acting on a darker color? If so, if the dilution gene didn't fall, the animal would revert to the darker color.  I don't know that this has ever happened among Cougars, but it is possible for two buckskin horses to produce a black foal.

I'm not questioning your assertion that there are no black-phased Cougars, but I would like to know your source for it.

Shoot low, Sheriff!  They're ridin' Shetlands.

[Ray Ford]

Mountainlions are very elusive and very hard to see in the wilds.  Once you see one its awesome to see this big cat loose in the wilds.  I seen one and its between 180 to 200lbs its a pretty big puddy cat.

D,

My experience is limited:  I've never actually seen a Cougar, or a Bear, or a Big Foot, in the wild.  (I've never seen a Big Foot in captivity.)  As I have said before, I personally would get a big thrill out of seeing either a Bear or a Cougar in the wild.  We, Tg'son and DG and I, were within a rock toss of a Bear near Talihina, Oklahoma, a while back: we could hear its claws clicking on the rocks as it, apparently, came down a rocky run to a small pond.  When it, apparently, got close enough to sense that we were there, it left out.  We saw dozens of piles of scat in the mountian road that we used to access the site.  To borrow a phrase from Tg'son, seeing a Big Foot would be "an unimaginable high!"

Shoot fast!  They're comin'

[jerkface11]

there are no black phased mountian lions,a black panther is the south american cat.

There may be no truly black ones but maybe some are very dark brown. Of course just because the experts say something isn't possible doesn't really mean anything.

[John]

The couger that crossed hwy 66 in front of my dad and I back in the early 60's appeared to be black,  it was out in front of the pickup at about the limits of the headlamps...early 50's GMC, and that might have been the cause for the dark color. It happened pretty quickly as well, one jump from the right shoulder of the road to the center (two lanes wide) and one jump to the left side of the road and out of sight.

This was in the Verdigris River bottoms about where the the highway crosses the barge ditch now.

[Ray Ford]

John and all,

Within the last 2 or 3 months, an apparently young Cougar was spotted in a Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, city park.  The sightings were taken seriously enough that the park was closed for a few days.  Broken Arrow, and the park, are not that far from the Arkansas River--which river could provide a travel route from either Arkansas in the east or from the Colorado and Wyoming areas to the west.  

Oh yes, I have read, in a post somewhere, that someone thinks that there is no law against shooting a Cougar in specific states.  It would be wise to check Federal laws: I believe, as has been posted elsewhere, that they are a Federally protected animal.  

I recently heard a story about a person shooting one and putting it in a freezer at his home.  I assume that he intended to have it mounted or some such thing.  The Feds, according to this story, knocked on his door,
found the Big Cat, and nailed the shooter's hide to the wall.  The Big Cat had a radio transmitter implanted, and it led the Feds directly to his freezer!  This might be an apocryphal story, but....

[John]

The big cat in Broken Arrow was this past winter, but there was never any confirmation, and the tracks that were shown on the local TV were large dog tracks with the nails clearly visible. There could have been a cat seen though.

Just this past Sunday morning on the Outdoor Oklahoma program they had a question/answer session and one of the game rangers said it right there on the TV that there are indeed some cougers in the state.

I believe that's the first time that I've ever heard the wildlife dept admit to that.

[Ray Ford]

The big cat in Broken Arrow was this past winter, but there was never any confirmation, and the tracks that were shown on the local TV were large dog tracks with the nails clearly visible. There could have been a cat seen though.

Just this past Sunday morning on the Outdoor Oklahoma program they had a question/answer session and one of the game rangers said it right there on the TV that there are indeed some cougers in the state.

I believe that's the first time that I've ever heard the wildlife dept admit to that.

John,
A few months ago, I spoke to a Ranger in Alfalfa county.  (I think that I have said something about this in another post.)  I mentioned that there had been three sightings near our farm on Highway 8 between Cleo Springs and Cherokee.  One, which I described to him, was of a Cougar eating a road kill deer in the bar ditch right at our house.  He discounted the reports, and said that people were seeing large Bob Cats; however, he went on to say that the Cougar would not have been eating the deer where he found it in the bar ditch but would have moved it out of sight.  He then told me that he had recently moved a dead dear off a highway.
When he returned to the location, a Cougar had carried it up into the field into high grass.  He used this as an illustration to show that what was eating the deer was not a Cougar.  Does it sound to you as if we have a contradiction in this conversation?

Incidentally, someone--I don't remember who--told me that a Cougar could range as much as 500 miles.  I seem to remember that they were speaking of males, but maybe not.

[John]

Sounds like the ranger is talking out his backside to me.

I have kin right there at Lambert, they have seen one there.

Hey here's an unusual thing that we've seen in Alfalfa County the past three years...porcupine. A fella used to have to travel out of state to see those critters.

[Micahn]

I have no problem at all saying that people have said something they seen or heard was a Bigfoot when in fact it was a big cat. In fact I bet a lot of people who have never heard a Panther scream know just what it is they are hearing. I have heard people call it every thing from a Bigfoot to a old lady screaming.
Now the tracks I would have a hard time with saying that they could be mixed up with what is called a Bigfoot print. A Bigfoot print looks like a giant human print while a big cats look just like a big cat like it should. Even if they stepped in the same track twice I can not see it being confused with a human looking track. If someone confuses a cat track with a  humans track they should not even be in the woods by themselves anyway lol.

[Ray Ford]

Sounds like the ranger is talking out his backside to me.

I have kin right there at Lambert, they have seen one there.

Hey here's an unusual thing that we've seen in Alfalfa County the past three years...porcupine. A fella used to have to travel out of state to see those critters.

John,
I haven't seen a porcupine, but I will say something to my son and find out if he has.  He lives in Alva and roams the woods some. I can remember when armadillos--Did I spell that correctly?--were not to be found in Oklahoma.  Now they are common!

[John]

We have some family land on the Salt Fork just north of Ingersol, that's where the porcupines are.

[Ray Ford]

John,

We were at our Aline/Carmen farm this weekend, and our son, the one who works at Northwestern OSU in Alva, took us to dinner.  It WAS Mothers' Day.  While we were there, I mentioned to him about the porcupines that you had told me about.  He said they were "all over that country."  Recently, he said, he saw what he thought was a squirrel's nest in a tree, but it turned out to be a porcupine.

A few days ago, the black Lab female that came to our place and had pups under one of our houses, came in with needles around her mouth.  Anyone interested in a half-Lab pup?

[John]

I still remember he first one of those stickery little devils that I ever saw, and it was up in Montana, never thought we'd have them in Oklahoma, but like you said, we didn't used to have armadillos either...I can find those things about any time right here around the house....haha, and beavers, you used to have to go to Canada to find a beaver, now we're infested with those, deer were not common, and they've reached the pest stage in many places...otters, bears, cougers.

It just keeps getting better if ya like critters.

I'm thinking that fur needs to become popular again, and soon.

But that wouldn't do anything about those porcupines or armadillos would it?

[Ray Ford]

I distinctly remember, years ago, being very surprized at seeing an Armadillo while driving down the highway. I thought that you had to approach the Rio Grane to see them.  I haven't personally sighted a porcupine yet.  

I have been told that the entire beaver population of Oklahoma came from three pairs that were released by the state game and fish people in, I believe, the southeastern corner of the state.  I have seen beavers.  I've even skinned one--which is not easy to do.  At the next opportunity, I am going to cook and eat one.  I hear that they are good.

When my son was an undergraduate at NWOSU at Alva, he and his cousin spotted deer on his grandpa's place--for the first time.  They drove to Enid, bought rifles, and killed a couple.  They've never said whether or not they bought tags.  There have been deer there ever since.

In the early 1960's, I had a conversation with a game ranger who had just returned to Oklahoma from over east where he had killed a wild turkey.  He told me that he grew up listening to his grandpa talk about killing wild turkeys and had made the trip especially to do the same.  He was thrilled to be able to do so.  There were none to be had in Oklahoma at they time.  I have, in the last few years, seen scads of wild turkeys.  My son has counted flocks of 60+ on our wheat fields.  I haven't killed one yet.  He has.

I like critters.

[Sourdough]

Just because a specific color is not prevelent, does not mean it could not happen.  I've seen white Red Squirells, Black Bears, and Moose.  Also blue Black Bears.   Just because the predominate color for mountain lions is brown, does not mean there is not a group of black ones out there.

[wolfsong]

there are no black phased mountian lions,a black panther is the south american cat.

Florida panthers are black in color (or dark brown and black) and are of the genus of cougar, mountain lion, puma, catamount, painter, etc.

[Ray Ford]

John,
This past weekend--it was Memorial Day--we spent two or three days at the farm in Aline, Oklahoma.  I made a couple of jaunts through the woods alone Eagle Chief Creek.  Beaver have taken up residence in the creek.

[lewdogg21]

Myeh... I'm not one for black panters, ufo's, wherewolves, etc (maybe bf).

I will say that back in the early 1980/s my father was deer hunting with his dad and about 10am or so they were driving on a backcountry road near Pioneer, CA and had a what he described as Black Cougar with a bob tail (yes the tail was missing) cross the road directly in front of the truck.  People have arugued with him before but he's never waivered from what he saw.  According to him the unerving part was directly around the next turn in the road was a family having a picnic.

He's seen other cougars and hunted since he was a small kid.  I believe him.

[pills]

Just came across this post. I have seen pictures of a large black cat laying on a picnic table around Okmulgee lake. It was sunbathin like you see a common house cat.

I have hunted the game management area referred to as Milroy Mountain. I have heard some very strange noises. No matter what season I always make sure to have something that goes boom.

[Ray Ford]

Pills,

I take it that you live around Okmulgee?

When I was in high school--I graduated from OHS in 1958--the coach was "Doc" Milroy.  He inherited the "Doc" from his father who was an MD.  To get to the Milroy house, you drove west out of Okmulgee until you crossed the Deep Fork bridge.  Once over the bridge, there was a road to the right that ran north to the house.  To the immediate left of the road was the Game Management Area, and the land lifted up onto a mountain.  To the immediate right of the road was about 600 acres of bottom owned by the Milroy's.  That was "Milroy Bottom."  I never heard the mountain above the bottom referred to as "Milroy Mountain," but it could have been.  The Milroy house was west of the road on the mountain.  I believe that the 600 or so acres, which is under a hunting lease, is the only private land in that immediate area now.  The Deep Fork River Wildlife Management Area owns the rest:  Blue Gar Bottom south of the river, etc.

Since there is a high probability that there are cats there, I am in sync with your notion about carrying "something that goes boom" in the area, but the WMA regulations on what kind of gun can be carried and when need to be observed.

I would be interested in your posting a description of the "strange sounds" that you have heard. 

[chance_livewire]

IM FROM MUSKOGEE OKLAHOMA AND HUNT ARKANSAS RIVER BOTTOM, AND ONE WEEK TO BE EXACT FROM THE DATE OF THE MT LION SIGHTINGS IN BROKENARROW I WAS TRAILED ALL THE WAY TO MY TREESTAND IN MORNING DARKNESS BY SOMTHING, I DIDNT KNOW IT UNTIL I GOT SETTLED INTO MY STAND, AND HEARD IT TAKE OFF. WELL AT 10:30 OR SO I GET OUT OF MY TREESTAND AND HIT THE GROUND AND NOT 20 YDS FROM MY STAND IS 2 SETS OF MT LION TRACKS, INSIDE MY TRACKS.  THE HAIRS ON MY NECK DONE BACKFLIPS.  I FOLLOWED THEIR TRACKS ALL THE WAY BACK TO MY 4 WHEELER RIGHT WHERE I HAD SPRAYED DOE PEE ON MY BOOTS. I WENT TO LOWES AN BOUGHT SOME PLASTER AND MADE CASTS OF BOTH OF THEMS TRACKS. MY SONS WERE TAKING THE HUNTERS SAFETY COURSE IN FT GIBSON LATER THAT FALL, AND I TOOK THEM CASTS UP TO THE RANGERS, AND BOTH OF THEM SAID THEY HAVE NEVER SEEN SUCH BIG TRACKS BEFORE. WELL DECEMBER 18TH ME AND MY 13 YEAR OLD WERE CHECKING TRAPS AND OUT OF A FENCE ROW NOT 40 YDS FROM US A HUGE MALE MT LION  WALKS OUT LOOKS AT US AND STARTS LOPPING OFF . HE WAS HUGE I WOULD SAY 150 TO 170 LBS. HIS TAIL WAS EVEN MASSIVE. HE WOULD MAKE A ROTWEILLER LOOK TINY. HIS FEET WERE HUGE. I WOULD HAVE TO SAY  ANY DOG THAT MET HIM HAD A BAD DAY.  MY SON WAS IN AWE. THERE WERE 2 CATS THERE BUT WE NEVER SEEN THE SMALLER ONE. ONLY TRACKS. THEY HUNG AROUND UNTIL ABOUT MARCH THEN DISSAPPEARED. AND THEN THE DEER CAME BACK. THESE GUYS MOVED IN ON US AND THE DEER AND BOBCATS MOVED OUT. WE WERE IN A DROUGHT AND I WOULD ALWAYS SEE THEIR TRACKS ON THE RIVER BANKS.  AND A WOMAN THAT DEVELOPES FILM, AT WALGREENS SAID A WOMAN CAME IN AND HAD SOME FILM DEVELOPED. SHE HAD A PICTURE OF 2 MT LIONS FEEDING ON ROAD KILL NEXT TO THE HWY 16 BRIDGE. TOOK PICS FROM HER CAR NOT 30 YDS FROM THEM IN HER HEADLIGHTS. AND THEY NEVER SPOOKED. NOW DONT YA THINK THESE GUYS ARE GETTING MORE COMMON!!

[Graybeard]

Chance please find the CAPS LOCK key and press it. All caps are extremely hard to read and is considered rude as it is shouting.

[1911crazy]

Every visit to my camp in VT at night in the dark i'm seeing this catamount so they call a mountainlion in Vt.  I seem to catch it in my headlites while going to or leaving my camp its on an old town access to the national forest road i'm the last place on it out in the boonies. While its awesome to see we have to remember its very dangerous at the sametime too.  It has paid a visit in the daytime too.(growling up on the ridge above us)  I'm always packin and uneasy when i'm out and about up there.  I seen an attack of a mountainlion and he had the old man by his head when a hunter came along and put 3 rounds into him from his rifle and he finally let go.  Having an encounter while your alone would be hard to survive.  I prefer my 357mag or my 45acp but i'm sure it would be hard to survive it too. I try to avoid places that above me were an attack could take place too.  I have had an encounter once with something above me and i backed up away from that spot but didn't see anything.  I figured it was above me on the ridge hearing me but it didn't know were i was.

While they won't admit they are there its stated that they are released so called  pets and i'm not buying it.  I first seen the tracks in the snow in the upper elevations for many years.  I figure that there breeding at a enormous rate so there spreading into the lower populated areas now looking for food.

I have a feeling that some of these are "RE" released into the wilds by the forest/wildlife managment guys and mum is the word.  I think they expect to balance nature out, heck i haven't seen a deer track at my place in many years now. Maybe the mountain lions will cull the yotes there seems to be plenty of those.  You have to see one of these up close and personal to realize how big they are....the body is 5' to 6' long with a 4' large tail were talking a 180 to 200lb killing machine here.