Author Topic: 475 Linebaugh vs 500 S&W (Read 4205 times)

blklabs · « **on:** April 04, 2006, 04:25:58 PM »

Well,
I have been lurking here awhile. I currently have a SBHH in .44 Mag topped with a 30m Millet Red Dot. I used it to take a small buck this last year. I really like the gun, however I have always like to shock and awe factor. I got it when I purchased the 44.

I have really been considering the 475 as a good all-around gun. I just started reloading so I am really interested in the 420 grain bullets pumping along at 850 fps. Sounds like it would do a real number on those mean whitetails around here, probably work good too on the 100 - 150 pound hogs we got running around. However, the appeared versatility is what attracts me to the 475. When I get up the money and I go on my first african safari, elk hunt, caribou hunt, etc, I can load it up hot and carry it around on my belt. Not that a 44 won't handle the load, just not my choice if there was beer or worse about to serve me for dinner.

So the lengthy post aside, with S&W claiming the 500 as the most powerful handgun on earth. What do ya'll think. How does it compare in regards to penetration with the 475, does it kick its butt or what? Does it have the versatility of the 475? Finally, can you get it in a gun such as one of gary reeders? I was looking at the either the American Hunter or Ultimate 475.

blklabs · « **Reply #1 on:** April 04, 2006, 06:07:17 PM »

Forgot to mention, that I also want something that is semi packable yet long enough to still use as a hunting pistol. I really like the crosssdraw rigs so that would the way I would probably go.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 05, 2006, 01:10:41 AM »

The 500 Mag can handle bullets from 275 to 700 gr. You can shoot 500 Specials or full house 500 Mags. 500 Mag, double action 475 Single action. In my opinion the 500 Mag would be my choice. As a matter of fact it was.

Camel 23 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 05, 2006, 02:02:45 AM »

I doubt if there is an animal on the planet that would be able to tell the difference between the two if it were on the receiving end. Here is a link to some of the penetration test results that were conducted at the Linebaugh Seminars during the past few years. http://www.handloads.com/misc/linebaugh.penetration.tests.asp

Reeder does make an Ultimate 500 which uses the 500 S&W cartridge. Here is a link. http://www.reedercustomguns.com/revolvers/ultimate500.htm

And welcome to the Forum.

Questor · « **Reply #4 on:** April 05, 2006, 03:04:39 AM »

Not an area of much interest for me, but I think for packability it would be a close race between the new short barrelled 500 S&W and the Linebaugh single actions.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #5 on:** April 05, 2006, 03:18:52 AM »

well heres my two cents either one of them will handle anything you have the guts to hunt. From what weve tested the .475 has a slight edge in pentrtation but the 500 is going to slap something harder and still penetrates better then most. Im talking cast bullets here (is there anything else) The 500 is capable of alot more power but its wasted power. Penetration peaks in a handgun with cast at about 1300 fps and more and in most cases penetration gets worse because of bullet deformantion. Packable? both are if its a 4 inch smith. The big ones forget it you might as well have a rifle. Id give an edge to the ruger based linebaugh guns in packability though. My 4 inch .500 vaquero packs alot nicer in a belt holster then a smith. But if you get into linebaughs that are over 5.5 inch its about a toss up. One thing the .500 smith has going for it is that its in a quality package at a reasonable price. The only .475 thats reasonalbe is a bfr and my experiences with bfrs hasnt been that good and there substaintialy bigger then a ruger based gun and no eiser to pack then a smith. So it about boils down to money and not ballistics. Me personaly im willing to buck up and pay for a custom but not everyone is in a postion that allows them to do it. But i have to say if faced with wanting a big bore for under 1000 bucks the smith 500 would be the only one on my belt. I keep threating to buy one to play with even though im a little top heavy on the big bores right now.

blklabs · « **Reply #6 on:** April 05, 2006, 03:33:39 AM »

Lloyd,
I am with you. I don't think I am going to have the problem of paying for a custom. Granted it might take me a year to save up the cash

but it will be well worth it in the end. I am leaning towards the Linebaugh style revolvers, simply for packability. I think that would probably be the way to go. I have just heard so many good things about the 475. I really interested in those 420 grain, 850 fps loads. Think it will smoke a deer? haha

I have always wondered about the 500 S&W. So if what I am hearing is correct the following should apply:

1. 500 S&W will hit harder, but not penetrate as much
2. 475 won't impact as hard on the game, but penetrate it more
3. Thereby the 500 would be a better back up game, since it impacts harder, it would probably put an animal down faster?

Do I have it about right ........

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 05, 2006, 04:06:13 AM »

I am sure also that anything hit with a 475 linebaugh or 500 Mag could not tell the difference. I am also a hard cast bullet guy.

My 4 inch 500 Mag is very packable in my bandoleer shoulder holster, the Terminator, by the Desantis Holster & Leather Co.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #8 on:** April 05, 2006, 04:21:06 AM »

I guess to sum up my post there isnt enough difference in the two rounds to worry about. Me my favorite is and allways will be the 500 linebaugh but that my opinion and a couple guys that I have talked to that have actually used them on dangerous stuff say the 475 has a slight edge. But like Steve said aint no animal on the planet that is going to live hit in the same place by one of them that would have died hit in the same place by any of the others and id have to include heavy cast in the 44 45colt and 454 along with it. All of the big bore handguns kill better then they have a right to by looking at paper ballistics. I like to stir the pot but id sure have to include redhawks 460 and 500 smith in that statement too. Biggest thing to keep in mind when buying any one of them is like redhawk and I have been preaching for a couple days here. YOU HAVE TO SHOOT THE SNOT out of them to be able to use them properly if your not willing to put the time in and arent willing to come home with sore muscles and hards and beat up knuckles and an occasional dimple on you noggin for a sight blade. Stick to the smaller side of the guns i mentioned youll do yourself and the game your shooting a big favor.

Skeeterbaymac · « **Reply #9 on:** April 05, 2006, 04:22:24 AM »

It's snowing today so I am sticking to the house!

I do not want to hijack your thread BLKLABS:

But I read you guys and your posts and I just don't get why I AM SUCH A WIMP! :oops: I would love nothing more than a new custom 475 or ect. I just can not shoot them well. Try as I may and I have tried, anything over 44 mag (read full power) and for some reason my groups open up and I have to shorten the distance to the target. I am 300 lbs and still (when health allows) lift heavy weights. But every time I get to shooting a revolver over 44 mag my groups go to pot. I mean I can hit the target but nothing like I can with a 44. I can handle my contender in 45-70 (350 grains med power loads) and do reasonably well with it.

Either I am doing something wrong or my mind is messing with me and telling me I can't. I bought a custom revolver not long ago and would have loved to have gotten it in 454 or 475 but knowing how I handle recoil, I got it in 44 mag. What am I doing wrong!

doncisler · « **Reply #10 on:** April 05, 2006, 04:43:50 AM »

skeeterbaymac,

you aren't doing anything wrong if you can accurately and effectively shoot a .44 mag.
the big bore handguns are fun and very affective if you can shoot them well. it takes a lot of practice to feel comfortable.
i have put a thousand rounds thru my .460 s&w mag and several thousand thru by bfr .45-70. i now shoot them well.

Questor · « **Reply #11 on:** April 05, 2006, 04:48:27 AM »

doncisler:

I couldn't agree more. It is a function of practice. Not just practice for a while, but sustained practice right up to the time of the hunt. It's not like riding a bicycle where, once learned, it's forever retained. It's something that needs continual reinforcement. I think that's why it serves as a lifelong hobby for so many of us.

Graybeard · « **Reply #12 on:** April 05, 2006, 05:10:39 AM »

If you've settled on the .475 I'd go with a Freedom Arms Model 83, it costs no more and perhaps less than a customized Ruger and at the end of it all if you get the customized Ruger you do still have a Ruuuggggeerr after all.

Questor · « **Reply #13 on:** April 05, 2006, 05:35:31 AM »

Graybeard makes what I consider to be an important point. Some day you will want to sell the gun. I agree that customizing a Ruger still leaves you with a Ruger. There may be a exception because of the reputation that the Linebaugh name has built.

Skeeterbaymac · « **Reply #14 on:** April 05, 2006, 05:36:52 AM »

You guys maybe right: Maybe I need to carry/use one as much as I do the 44 mag and then I might start to see some better results. I guess maybe in the past I have given up long before I should have. Where's that check book :lol:

Mr. Graybeard I learned many many years ago not to argue with the boss or my wife. So I will not comment on the "Ruuuggggeerr" quote but to say Oh that hurt! :lol:

Camel 23 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 05, 2006, 07:11:53 AM »

Quote from: Skeeterbaymac

Mr. Graybeard I learned many many years ago not to argue with the boss or my wife. So I will not comment on the "Ruuuggggeerr" quote but to say Oh that hurt! :lol:

A good lesson in life. And yes that did sting a little didn't it.

We still need to see pictures of that Bowen Classic!

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #16 on:** April 05, 2006, 08:03:00 AM »

you know me ill argue with anyone including Bill. I watch the prices on used ones out there and if your gun is built by bowen or linebaugh its probably going to hold it value even better then a fa gun. I recently sold one of my 475s I paid 2000 to have it built 5 years ago put many many thousands of rounds through it and sold it for 1800 dont think youd do that with a fa gun. Ive seen some used fa guns going awfuly cheap. Now i would say a clements built gun would hold its value about the same as a fa and reader probably less. I still get a kick out of someone saying one of my linebaughs is just a ruger. Whats the differnce. All the custom guys use is the frame and the grip frame and ive never seen either of them fail. My .500 and the last 475 John built me were as tight and percise as a fa gun. Granted ive seen a couple that werent. Both of these guns would easily shoot along side of a fa gun as they do easily an inch at 25 yards. About the only downfall to the resale of a custom is that you have to find someone that wants a gun like you had built. Buying a freedom arms guns about like buying a model T you can have any colar you want as long as its stainless. Dont get me wrong or start jumping all over me. I think FA guns are as good as they get and ive never personaly shot one that wasnt exceptional accurate and if they made them blued id consider one and probably will someday anyway. But to say my linebaugh guns or some of the top end work that clements has done for me is inferior to a FA gun is just hogwash. Its just a differnt type of gun and to defend Ruger there single actions may be a little crude in the fit an finish dept. But there bull strong guns and my .45s have run loads as stout in pressure as any 454 ammo and there still going strong. Granted i dont make a practice of doing it regularly afterall for 400 dollars your buying a ford and should expect a porche.

corbanzo · « **Reply #17 on:** April 05, 2006, 10:48:14 AM »

We did our own test with the big calibers, using the "watermelon test" You can try it at home. Go to the store, pick out a few watermelons of the same size and shape, and take out the big boys. In this case, we used a .500mag, .475LB, .454casull, .44mag. The .500mag won by unanimous vote for the largest "splatter pattern." The .454 actually came in second, speed causes more energy expansion upon impact, all of you who have hit deer with small bullets at really high speeds know this. The .475 third, and the .44mag fourth. This was a close range test, about 8 yards.

I would say .500mag first, .475LB second for big game. I know it's a terrible waste of watermelon... but that is why you bring more than you intend to shoot!

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #18 on:** April 05, 2006, 12:14:15 PM »

only two problems with the watermellon test. First cast bullets do very little in the way of hydrostatic shock in an animal. Weve looked at wound channels from many different handguns at all kinds of different velocitys and with cast bullets theres very little difference in any of them. What you gain with big heavy bullets is momentum to carry the penetration deeper into the animal and that way increasing the size of the wound Channel. In all my years of handgunning ive seen very few cases of animals dropping in there tracks wiht a behind the shoulder shot. IVe seen many with .223s 243s 2506 ect. Now jacketed handgun bullets may be a differnt story but youll have to get someone else to do the testing as ive seen them fail a few times and wouldnt take one into the game field. The Other problem with the watermellon test is your wasting good eating :-D A much better test of penetration that gives reliable readings is to soak wet news paper and build about a 6 foot long box to hold them. Then go to the store and see if the butcher has some bones about the same size as the animal you intend to hunt. Place the bones at the beginning of the box so that it represents shooting through the shoulder then it will travel into the wet print which will be simular to the body cavity. Shoot some jacketed crap into that and youll see how useless they are. Cast bullets will give 4 times or more the penetration of jacketed and will leave almost any gun even .458 mags gasping for air. Then if you really want to see some penetration shoot some of Kelly Shlepps (belt mountian) brass bullets there simply amazing at what they will do. Now before i get jumped on i know it doesnt take 4 feet of penetration to kill a whitetail or even a black bear but were talking guns that are used for critters alot larger and larger boned then deer. But that watermellon still sounds good!

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #19 on:** April 05, 2006, 12:16:57 PM »

heres a little reading on belt mountain bullets if anyone is interested. http://www.leverguns.com/articles/beltmountain.htm

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 05, 2006, 01:27:09 PM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale

heres a little reading on belt mountain bullets if anyone is interested. http://www.leverguns.com/articles/beltmountain.htm

Good read. I like them 50 cal bullets.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #21 on:** April 05, 2006, 01:42:01 PM »

he makes them for the .500 smith too pal and I guarantee you that nothing and im mean nothing will outpenetrate a big bore shooting them. There costly but i guess if its a once and a lifetime hunt the cost of a 100 of them would be minor. Most of the ones we did penetration testing with could be reloaded and shot again they were in that good of shape. About the only way to tell them from a new one was the rifleing engraved on them. We did by the way reshoot some to see if accuracy suffered and if it did it was minor.

Quote from: Redhawk1

Quote from: Lloyd Smale
heres a little reading on belt mountain bullets if anyone is interested. http://www.leverguns.com/articles/beltmountain.htm

Good read. I like them 50 cal bullets.

Catfish · « **Reply #22 on:** April 07, 2006, 02:47:18 PM »

First of all if you can kill a 100 to 150 lb. pig with your .44 mag. neather of the other 2 round will help you much.
Now if you just like big stoppers and you want the biggest the .475 doesn`t even come close to the .500. With a .475 pushing a 420 gn. bullet at 850 fps. you have a TKO of abt. 23.3. With a .500 S&W pushing 700 gn. bullet at 1200 fps. you have a TKO of 60. If you want something that compairs better to the .500 S&W, the .458 Win. mag. pushing a 300 gn. bullet to it`s max. has a TKO of 49, and when pushing a 400 gn. bullet to it`s max. has a TKO of 63.
I would guess that hte only animal in the Americas that could tell the differance between the .475 and the .500 is the brown bear, and I definately would want the .500 for them. The .500 S&W is quite large, but I would give you odds that they have far less recoil than an FA .475 after it has been magniproted. To bad you don`t live close to OH. I`ve got 2 .500`s, a production model and a Preformanse Shop gun. I`d make you a deal on the rpoduction model, with or without the 2X Leupold scope it wears. I`d keep it, but I`m not man enough to blast away with one in each hand. :wink:

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #23 on:** April 07, 2006, 03:10:56 PM »

but a .475 will push a 420 to 1400 fps

Graybeard · « **Reply #24 on:** April 07, 2006, 06:18:10 PM »

If you newer guys had been around as long as Lloyd you'd understand my position on Ruger and why I feel that way. And it really is OK to argue with me as long as you stay within the GBO TOS in doing it. And tell your wife I said it's OK to argue with her too.

Camel 23 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 07, 2006, 10:56:07 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard

And tell your wife I said it's OK to argue with her too.

Not a chance!

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #26 on:** April 07, 2006, 11:52:43 PM »

Lets see now Bill

you dont like Ruger. You dont like Smith, and you dont like Tarus anymore. Just wondering if you like your wife and dog?

youve got to quit being a crabby old fart :wink:

nomosendero · « **Reply #27 on:** April 08, 2006, 04:53:27 AM »

Lloyd, if I am not mistaken there was a Belt Mountain .44 bullet. Did they decide to quit that bullet for some reason?

Graybeard · « **Reply #28 on:** April 08, 2006, 05:09:22 AM »

I don't own a dog Lloyd, haven't since I was a boy, but no I don't like dogs period.

I do actually like S&W revolvers, love them in fact. Just hate the company that makes them. The Taurus RBs seem to be excellent guns. For a time there after the agreement I went to Taurus big time but the success went to their heads and the quality dropped and their customer service is near nonexistent based on my dealing with them.

simplicity · « **Reply #29 on:** April 08, 2006, 05:37:27 AM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale

but a .475 will push a 420 to 1400 fps

True but a 500 maxed out will push a 400 grain bullet at 1900fps. I load them to 1800 fps (thats out of my chrono) and honestly any faster and it gets accually on the unpleasant side. Here is a site of the only person I've found that has really pushed the 500 to it's potential.

www.john-ross.net/500data.htm