What rifle to pick? 308W or 7.62x54R

[cotefenetre]

I want to know what would be your preferred choice for target shooting up to 250 yards and some hunting, mostly between the following options:

Remington 700 BDL
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_r...00/model_700_BDL.asp

Sako 75 Hunter
http://www.sako.fi/sako75_hunter.html

Sako 75 Deluxe
http://www.sako.fi/sako75_deluxe.html

Antonio Zoli AZ1900 Lux
http://www.zoli.it/az1900lux.php

Mauser M 03
http://www.mauserwaffen.de/index.php?id=39&lang=en

Mauser M 98
http://www.mauserwaffen.de/index.php?id=37&lang=en

CZ 550 LUX
http://www.czub.cz/index.php?p=32&idp=3&ids=10&idz=39&lang=en

CZ 550 SCANDINAVIA
http://www.czub.cz/index.php?p=32&idp=3&ids=10&idz=40&lang=en

Izhmash Dragunov SVD
http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/svd.shtml

Izhmash Dragunov Tigr
http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/tigr.shtml

I'd also like to know whether you consider a Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest scope good optics for the rifle. Moreover, what reticle? MilDot or some kind of ballistic+rangefinder plex?

I know not all options are available everywhere.

My initial concept is:

-bolt action (but Dragunov)
-lightweight (wood stocked) 7 lb ballpark w/o scope.
-min. mag. capacity 5 rnd. Preferrably fixed mag with hinged floor.
-3-position safety (fire; free bolt and secure trigger; everything locked)
-iron sights plus fixed or removable scope
-scope w/ some kind of "mildot", fixed 4x or variable 3-9x40
-ready for slings
-availability and cost of spare parts. The less needed the better!
-fluted barrel preferred (inconvenients?)
-blued metallic parts (stainless wears faster? less resilient?)
-good crisp trigger. set up possibility appreciated.
-either 308W or 7.62x54R

[nasem]

you budget is way higher than mine, but as far as rifle goes... take out that remington, any other rifle you pick (other than that semi-auto) is a fine piece of work..... I have nothing against the draganouv, but that sako or Mauser 03/98 are so much nicer.  Personally I'll get the sako.

As far as round goes, 308; it wins, hands down, ammo availability is the key here.  Your getting such a fine, fine, FINE rifle here, is there any way I can talk you into getting a round that is....... how should I put this...... better than the .308 ?  Let me say that again, .308 IS NOT A BAD ROUND, as matter of fact its one of the best rounds in the world today (daughter of the 30-06).  Honestly, I would think hard about getting a 7mm mag on such a fine rifle, 7 mag can do EVERYTHING the 308 can plus a little more (flatter trajectories)

Ok, I need to shut up now, if you got your mind set on the .308, go for it man, and I wish you best of luck , you woun't regret.

[cotefenetre]

I've narrowed my options a tiny bit:

Sako 75 Hunter
http://www.sako.fi/sako75_hunter.html

Mauser M 03
http://www.mauserwaffen.de/index.php?id=39&lang=en

Mauser M 98
http://www.mauserwaffen.de/index.php?id=37&lang=en

CZ 550 SCANDINAVIA
http://www.czub.cz/index.php?p=32&id...idz=40&lang=en


I'd also like to know whether you consider a Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest scope good optics for the rifle. Moreover, what reticle? MilDot or some kind of ballistic+rangefinder plex?


My initial concept is:

-bolt action in 308W
-lightweight (wood stocked) 7 lb ballpark w/o scope.
-min. mag. capacity 5 rnd. Preferrably fixed mag with hinged floor.
-3-position safety (fire; free bolt and secure trigger; everything locked)
-iron sights plus fixed or removable scope
-scope w/ some kind of "mildot", fixed 4x or variable 3-9x40
-ready for slings
-availability and cost of spare parts. The less needed the better!
-fluted barrel preferred (inconvenients?)
-blued metallic parts (stainless wears faster? less resilient?)
-good crisp trigger. set up possibility appreciated.

[Don Fischer]

Doesn't seem like anything fits here. Target shooting to 250 yds and a wood stocked 7# rifle with a fluted barrel? Choose between a 4x and a 3-9x scope?

I'd think you'd want something a bit heavier for target shooting. Also seems like the serious are using comp stocks too. I like a 4x scope but it's a hunting scope. The 3x9 is also more hunting than target. Iron sight's and a set trigger? What spare part's do you think you might need or are you talking accessories? I guess nothing is wrong with any of this, but I'd think there's better choices for a rifle being used as a 250yd target rifle with some hunting thrown in.

Itdoesn't sound like you clearly defined what it is you really want.

[Qaz]

At 250yd, you won't see much of the target and what little you do, the crosshair will cover. When you can't see what you are shooting at all the rifles listed have the same accuracy.

[cotefenetre]

I won't be involved in serious target shooting with rifles. I'm good at pistol matches. I want the rifle for fun. I need it to be "featherweight" because I got injured in one arm of so much shooting, now I cannot with stand exerting too much force during extended periods of time (I lost all chances to be in the olympics...).

I'll use the rifle for informal shooting at paper targets and even plinking with it! I do own a wide range of milsurps and I'm starting to hate them because of their sights. No, I won't modify them. I'm going to keep those old irons in their original shape.

Therefore, I expect to buy a rifle light enough to be carried on and accurate enough to enjoy it shooting at fixed paper targets.

I don't really need a set trigger. But something resemblable to a match grade target pistol one (those triggers are configurable in all ways).

[MGMorden]

I won't be involved in serious target shooting with rifles. I'm good at pistol matches. I want the rifle for fun. I need it to be "featherweight" because I got injured in one arm of so much shooting, now I cannot with stand exerting too much force during extended periods of time (I lost all chances to be in the olympics...).

Are you going to be shooting offhanded or from a bench?  Seems like if shooting from the bench, the recoil may be more of a problem than the actual weight of the rifle (and recoil goes up as weight goes down).  .308 Win and 7.62x54R, while not really hard on one's sholder, aren't exactly soft either.  Depending on the nature of your injury, you might want to rethink that decision (one of my uncles who had shoulder surgery a few years back has become completely unable to shoot his .30-06, and has had to rever to a .243 Win to keep his shoulder from hurting after shooting).

[cotefenetre]

Are you going to be shooting offhanded or from a bench?  Seems like if shooting from the bench, the recoil may be more of a problem than the actual weight of the rifle (and recoil goes up as weight goes down).  .308 Win and 7.62x54R, while not really hard on one's sholder, aren't exactly soft either.  Depending on the nature of your injury, you might want to rethink that decision (one of my uncles who had shoulder surgery a few years back has become completely unable to shoot his .30-06, and has had to rever to a .243 Win to keep his shoulder from hurting after shooting).

I'm going to shoot offhand, kneeling and prone. Although I won't shoot from a bench I'm willing to try one of those bipods. Mainly for the fun of it.

I did consider 243 Winchester too, but I decided to buy a "military" caliber because those cases seem to be manufactured for a longer period of time than other "hunting" cartridges. Not to mention bullet availability in .30 cal.

All the rifles I've considered have a rubber pad, while all the milsurps I've used until now had steel pads. I didn't appreciate sore until after 20 or 30 rounds. I have no experience with rubber pads so I cannot know how it's going to effect recoil.

[nasem]

What kind of injury did you get ? a joint injury (where you usually place the rifle-butt, cause that spot usually eats all the recoil and after many and many rounds, it can tear up your shoulder)

thats why its always adviced not to shoot a high recoil gun for a very long period of time (meaning years and years and years of shooting), it usually leaves the person with permanant shoulder damage

[cotefenetre]

My injure is a chronic tendonitis in my right elbow. I can do most things, but the long lasting ones. Like carrying a heavy rifle for a long time.

When you say "high recoil guns" which ones are they? A 308W rifle would be included in this category? 8lb - 9lb for rifle + scope.

[mitchell]

you almost made the Olympics and your asking whats better a 308 or a 7.62X54R??

where's that little smiley with the BS flag, something smells fishy.

[savageT]

As mitchell has so well stated.........What's the "real story"?  If you are considering a mil. cartridge w/ light recoil, why not consider the 6.5x55mm Swede/.260Rem?  I can't think of anything that will give you better accuracy and knock-down power w/o blowing out your shoulder.  You collect milsurps..... need I say more?
Jim

[nasem]

when I say high recoil, I mean anything that a shooter will feel..... A 30-06 or a .308 or not a "high" recoil rifle, BUT the shooter does defenetly feel them kick.  I have seen MANY occasions at the gun-range where a newbie 30-06 owner "thinks" it doesn't generate any recoil, so they hold the gun wrong and BAM..... bloody nose all over the place (scope bashed thier nose real bad).

Does a 30-06 cause bruses ? hell yes, but not after 20 rounds, more like 60 rounds.  Will it beat up your shoulder if you shoot it.... lets say.... 2-3 times a week for 60-80 rounds per sitting for many many years.... hell yes.

My other question is, if your looking for good accuracy, decent knock-down power (im assuming you'll be hunting medium game), and for most of the occasions, you'll be shooting from the bench @ targets, why not get a .243 win.  Less recoil than a 308, and flatter.

[cotefenetre]

For mitchell:

I was pretty good in Pistol... not in rifle shooting!!! I don't even like rifle competitions...

For savageT:

I like the 6.5x55mm Swedish a lot. In fact, I got an m96. I use it once or twice a year. 20 rnd each time.

What's the case price and bullet choice of the 6.5x55 versus the 308W? Locally, I can find 2 brands of moderately priced cases and one bullet brand with one weight choice for the 6.5mm.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but isn't the action length of the 308W shorter than the 6.5x55 one?

For nasem:

I got a couple milsuprs in 308W and all I know is that after 20 rnd. my shoulder gets sore. So it's good to know that a rubber pad can increase shooting up to 60 rnd.  

Anyway, my idea is to shoot say 20 or 30 rnd. every month or two. Perhaps the double in the first months of having the "new toy".

Does the 243W wear barrels faster than a 308W? Does it have a wide bullet choice? Are cases similarily priced as the 308W? Is it easy to find "surplus" or "used once" brass? Are there any FMJ bullets for it? They're cheaper for target shooting (informal). I'm asking all this questions because I'm not familiar with that caliber.

If the 243W doesn't have any drawbacks compared to the 308W then I'll really look forward to it.

Considering the 243W as a choice then the Rem700 BDL comes back into my list. Rem/Sako/CZ. What would be nice to know is what good points and what downsides have each considered model. I don't know whether, for example, a Rem 700 is any better than a CZ Scandinavia.

For all:

Some questions my sound naive, but as I'm not into rifles I'm trying to acquire good fundamentals to help me picking up the right hardware. This rifle is going to be a whim and nothing else.

[mitchell]

For mitchell:

I was pretty good in Pistol... not in rifle shooting!!! I don't even like rifle competitions...

humm then why you want to buy one?? :-D  :-D


the 308 and the 6.5x55 can fit in a short action.

I got a couple milsuprs in 308W and all I know is that after 20 rnd. my shoulder gets sore.

PUSSYcat, wimp buy a pad or get a real stock.

Does the 243W wear barrels faster than a 308W?

yup

 Does it have a wide bullet choice

yes if you reload

Is it easy to find "surplus" or "used once" brass?

just buy new its not that much

Are there any FMJ bullets for it

yes but most FMJ bullets wont shoot for crap

Some questions my sound naive, but as I'm not into rifles I'm trying to acquire good fundamentals to help me picking up the right hardware. This rifle is going to be a whim and nothing else.

just remember that a little humility will go a long way , if you don't know anything then state it if not you'll get ripped apart by vultures. and one more little bit of help if your going to get into target shooting don't do it on a "whim", you'll go broke real quick.

[nasem]

A 100-gr bullet from 243. win goes at about 2950 FPS, a 150 grain bullet from a 308 goes at about 2500-2600 fps......

Now regarding barrel wear lol, its sooooo insignificant its not even a factor, you might be able to shoot a 308 barrel (with proper care) from 6000 up to 10,000 rounds, now if your comparing a 243 barrel (with proper care of course), you blast anywhere from (again) 6000-10,000.

THere is a new type of ammo available in the market, its pretty good, called Wolf Gold ammo, brass cased, full metal jacked = none of that bi-metal creap, its real copper from the outside and lead from the inside.  VERY accurate on all my 30-06 rifles.  That same brand also sells 243, 6.5 swedish, 7mm mag, 308 win, 300 mag, 30-06, and much more.  Most of the time I buy a box at about $8-10 (depends on caliber).

I dunno how a shoulder can be hurt from 20 rnds of 308, it doesn't hit "that" hard, UNLESS your pulling the rifle's stock backwards toward you shoulder when you pull the trigger.  

But seriously, if the 308 bruses you after 20 rounds, then MAYBE that should not be your choice.....You said it your self that you want a rifle that you can shoot and plink with.... to me plinking is not shooting 20 rounds and calling it quits.  Plinking is shooting and shooting and shooting, for hours and hours a day (AND I LOVE IT LOL).  

Get a 243 if you want to plink and MAYBE sometimes go deer hunting (like once a year or so)

Get a .223 or so if your only going to plink, very easy on the shoulder, and fun as all heck to shoot

[7x57mm]

Cotefenetre: In which country do you live? As far as rifles go, I am very partial to the CZ line of rifles. When you say you will do some informal target shooting, the CZs have the single set trigger, which is excellent for target shooting. You can easily adjust the trigger pull on the regular trigger to three pounds or so, and then take out the creep and over-travel with the adjustments. The set trigger is activated when you push the regular trigger all the way forward and it clicks into position. At that point, you have a trigger with a trigger pull weight of about 12 ounces. You can add a Sims Vibration Lab recoil pad to that Scandinavia Rifle and it will reduce the recoil even more. You really need to let folks know what country you live in, though, because it may make a difference in the caliber of rifle to get. Have a tolerable day ... Tom Purdom