Beginner Hunting Rifle for deer .243,.270,.7mm Rem Mag?

[alien319]

I would like to hear some of your advice?  I would also add the .30-30 in there.

[nasem]

there is a big difference between the rounds you have chosen,

--243 is flat, minimum requirement for deer hunt, low recoil, and the cost of ammo is not cheap (about 15-20 per box)

--270 is flatter than 243, good round for even elk, low recoil, cost of ammo is a little higher than the 243

--7mm mag, but I don't recommend this for a begginer round, but its an AMAZING round, flat as hell, hits real hard (will drop an elk @ 400-500 yards with no problems), recoil I would say "mild", its very close to a 30-06 shooting 180-gains(maybe a tad bit more than '06, but nothing too painfull), cost of ammo is.... I order them for about $11.50 a box of Wolf Gold (none of that steel cased crap, this is quality non-russian ammo that Gold bought from..... forgot which european country) but they shoot well, 160-grains at 3050 FPS.... I typically can get 2-3" groups at 300 yards.

--30-30, this round doesn't really mix with the once you have chosen, its kind of like an 7.62X39 (ak-47 ammo), very effective for close range but due to the fact that it has that "rainbow" trajectory, its not considered a long range bullet.


When I first got started in this sport, I had a 30-06 for about 3 years, I shot it about 2-3 times a month with about 60 rounds every time I went to the gun range, and I continue to do so but I have other choices now ....

For a begginer rifle / round, I don't think You can go wrong with either a .270, .308 or 30-06, and if your up for some serious shooting, 7mm mag....(my personel advice to you is, get a 30-06).... As far as rifle goes, what kind of budget you looking for ?

I love stainless steel rifles, so all my recommendations for you will be stainless rifles
--$300 , you can't go wrong with howas 1500 lighting (thier stainless steel is nice)
--$500, ruger 77 mk-ii bolt rifles, stainless steel, well built and smooth
--$600-800, I love american made guns, but you CAN NOT go wrong with a Tikka t3 its not american made, but when you shoot one, you'll know you have a seriously accurate rifle in your hands

[lefteyedon]

The good old 30-30 is a better real world deer rifle than people ( read gun writers) give it credit for.  With the new soft point bullets it is even better.
 Too many people belive it is only good for 100 yards on deer. This is not supported by ether the ballists charts or real world experance.

You do not need a 1000 ft-lbs to kill a 200 lb deer. 500 to 750 will do just fine, If you put the bullet in the right place. A round nose 150grn start out 2300 will still have 614 ft-lbs at 250 yards. A spitzer starting out at 2300 will produce 890 ft lbs at 300 yards. (why did it take so long to build a safe spitzer for a tubular magizine?)

30-30 are more accurate than most people  believe, provided you  replace the Buck horn rear sight with some thing more useful, a peepsight or 4x scope. many will shoot 2" to 3" groups at 100 yards and many Marlins will do much better.

 Just using the 150 round nose bullet at 2300 fps the rifle is an easy 250 yard deer rifle. Sight it in 4 inch high at 100 yards you are dead on at 200 yards a 7 inch low at 250 yards.

 Use the new soft tip bullets that are now on the market  and the 30-30 will flatten it out even more pushing the minute of deer out to about 275 yards.

 How many deer are shot at ranges greater than 200 yards?

 There are much better rifles than the old 30-30 but that fact does not change the fact that the 30-30 is a proven game getter year after year.


 All that said my deer rifle is an 18" barrel 308 winchester in a Savage 110 with a 2.5X10 scope....

LeftEyeDom

[alien319]

I currently own a Winchester model 94 with 20" barrel in .30-30.  It is a dream to shoot but am looking for a nice low priced bolt action.  I've been hearing good stuff about the 6.5x55 Swede too.

[lefteyedon]

Fine a used savage 110 in 270 or 30.06. Then spend your moeny on good to better glass. It is always better to put a $250 scope on a $200 rifle than to put a $50 scope on a $400 rifle'.
 The really nice thing about the Savage it the easy in which barrels barrels can be changed. My 308 18" barrel deer rifle is now wearing it summer 22-250 barrel.
 
Have fun

[nasem]

Lefteye-

I underestand what your saying, and I agree with you, there is only 1 type of dead and that "dead" can be accomplished if you have 600 ft-lbs of energy or 2000 (both give same results)

however, if you get a round, like the 308 / 270 / 30-06 and such, it will be capable of doing EVERYTHING the 30-30 can do PLUS more.  Thats the main idea here, I always try to get rounds that will be used in many different applications.

[victorcharlie]

For just deer, go with a 30.30......if you want to shoot crows, groundhogs, coyotes, and other varmints and can only have one rifle right now, I'd take the .243.

You don't tell us where you will be hunting so it's hard to determine how long your shots are likely to be.

[Zachary]

We don't even know how young of a shooter we are talking about.  First, is it a he or a she?  Girls usually are smaller framed than boys at a given age.  Then, what age?

If we are talking about a young man who is about 13 years old and is of average height and weight, then I would certainly look at the 7mm-08 or .260 Remington.

Anyone younger, or smaller framed, I would say the .243.

Under just about any circumstance, I would say DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT A 7mm REM MAG!!

The 7mm Rem Mag was the first gun that I bought, and it left me recoil sensitive for MANY years.  Don't do that to a young shooter.

Zachary

[lilabner]

I agree that you haven't given enough information. Could you also tell us what kind of hunting it will be? Like stand hunting on the edge of large food plots, stand hunting in the woods or "still" hunting (sneaking through the woods to jump a buck) It could be a combination of methods.

[Don Fischer]

I would add to what Zackery said. Not only do we not know who this is for but, different people have different tolerences to recoil. My own experience with the 30-30 is it's a miserable rifle to shoot for recoil. Maybe it was just the individual rifle but it turned me off 30-30's for life. I'm not a fan of the 243 even tho I know a lot of people have had wonderfull luck with it. I've killed deer cleanly myself with it. The best place to start in my opiniuon would be either the 250 Savage or 257 Roberts. Sadly finding rifles and ammo poses some problem. Not the 25-06 tho. It doesn't recoil that much but it does make a lot of noise and is more violent. Sometimes percieved recoil is as bad as real recoil.

The 260 Rem has got to be the best thing to come along in a long time for what your asking. At least since the 7-08. With either cartridge you've got a good range of bullets designed for big game hunting that are adequate for animals up to elk. Recoil is there but relatively low and shouldn't be a problem for anybody that want's to shoot. The 6.5x55 and 7x57 are in the same class. Any difference between these 6.5's or between these 7mm's is more imagined than real.

I like the 6.5x55 and the 7x57 because they just roll off the tongue a little sweeter.

[alien319]

Sorry guys, I am a male 21 years of age and I am 5'9" 165-170 pounds.  I have shot .300 win mags before and they really didn't bother me.  I just don't think I need that size round for mostly Whitetail hunting.  I will be doing almost every type of hunting.  Stand, still, food plot.  I need a good flat shooting, general purpose bolt action.

[Don Fischer]

Ah! Well, I'm not gonna change my thoughts much. I might add the 25-06, 270 and 280 now. If you reload, I think you'd really like the 6.5x55. If you don't, factory stuff is supposed to be weak knee'd to allow for the military actions it was used in. I had one built for my wife on a Parker-Hale 1200 and with 140 gr bullets I got just over 2800 fps on a cronograph. Now I have a Winchester Featherweight I'm trying 129 gr Hornadys in. Haven't cronographed any yet.

When I was looking for my 6.5x55 I talked to a guy in Bend, Ore that was selling a new Howa with a synthic stock and 3x9 scope (not a great one) in that cartridge for $359.00. The Featherweight without sights was $610.00.

[Zachary]

Sorry guys, I am a male 21 years of age and I am 5'9" 165-170 pounds.  I have shot .300 win mags before and they really didn't bother me.  I just don't think I need that size round for mostly Whitetail hunting.  I will be doing almost every type of hunting.  Stand, still, food plot.  I need a good flat shooting, general purpose bolt action.

You have quite a bit of tolerance.  As such, you should strongly consider the following cartridges and bullet weights, as they are good 'ole stand by combinations that are ideal for the shooting you describe.  There are others, but these are great.

.270 Winchester with bullets 130 to 150 grains, or
30-06 Springfield with bullets 150 to 165 grains.

Given that the .280 Remington is more of a reloader's cartridge, I did not specifically recommend it.

Zachary

[dukkillr]

Get the 270.  It's the one where you can buy bullets at at 4:30am at Wal-Mart.  Those wilder rounds would be fun, but not a great first gun.  For non-reloaders and guys who want to hunt rather than tinker, commercial availability is a big deal.  

30-06 would fit the bill here too.

[gunnut69]

For whitetails the 270 or the 280 are both great rifles. I prefer the 280 for it's ability to use heavier bullets should I need to. The 270 is about all you'd need but if a larger critter was in the cards the 280 has more capability. Actually most modern high intensity rounds(most of what we've spoken about here, will shoot flat enough to hit at ranges most shooters should blush at even considering. Still the 30-06 and the 7mmRemMag are great general purpose rounds. And the better ballistics of the 7mm deliver a heavier punch at extended ranges.. useful against larger beasties. The 7mm recoils about the same as the 30-06 using similar bullet weights. Either would make a great one gun battery for the big game hunter. The 270 with a 130 grain premium bullet is likely the best choice if it's to be a fairly dedicated deer rifle.  JMO!! But the truth is I usually use a 7mmRem or a 300 WinMag when I'm very serious.. Otherwise I use the newest or latest.. I've used all the listed rounds but the 7-08 and just bought one of those.. Also I've not used the 260 as I love the 6.5 Swede, which when loaded to it's potential is a slightly better round.. We've also left out a myriad of great rounds that would easily fill the bill...the 7x57, 257 Roberts(used one just this year on a meat deer), 300 Savage(especially if you like the unusual), 240 Weatherby, etc.

[gunnut69]

For whitetails the 270 or the 280 are both great rifles. I prefer the 280 for it's ability to use heavier bullets should I need to. The 270 is about all you'd need but if a larger critter was in the cards the 280 has more capability. Actually most modern high intensity rounds(most of what we've spoken about here, will shoot flat enough to hit at ranges most shooters should blush at even considering. Still the 30-06 and the 7mmRemMag are great general purpose rounds. And the better ballistics of the 7mm deliver a heavier punch at extended ranges.. useful against larger beasties. The 7mm recoils about the same as the 30-06 using similar bullet weights. Either would make a great one gun battery for the big game hunter. The 270 with a 130 grain premium bullet is likely the best choice if it's to be a fairly dedicated deer rifle.  JMO!! But the truth is I usually use a 7mmRem or a 300 WinMag when I'm very serious.. Otherwise I use the newest or latest.. I've used all the listed rounds but the 7-08 and just bought one of those.. Also I've not used the 260 as I love the 6.5 Swede, which when loaded to it's potential is a slightly better round.. We've also left out a myriad of great rounds that would easily fill the bill...the 7x57, 257 Roberts(used one just this year on a meat deer), 300 Savage(especially if you like the unusual), 240 Weatherby, etc.

[nasem]

wait a minute... he is getting this gun for a youngster ? I might have misread then, DEFENETLY not a 7mm mag / 30-06 / or even a .270....  A kid at 13 can defenetly handle the recoil of either of them BUT why put him / her in a position where they might have a "trigger flinch" for the next 20 years... its not necessary.

get a .243 (if its for a youngster)

[Coyote Hunter]

Sorry guys, I am a male 21 years of age and I am 5'9" 165-170 pounds.  I have shot .300 win mags before and they really didn't bother me.  I just don't think I need that size round for mostly Whitetail hunting.  I will be doing almost every type of hunting.  Stand, still, food plot.  I need a good flat shooting, general purpose bolt action.

OK, you live in eastern PA and/or NC, already have a .30-30 and the recoil of a .300 Win Mag doesn’t bother you much.  Mot sure exactly what “mostly Whitetail hunting” means – does it include the occasional moose or black bear?  You want a “flat shooting, general purpose bolt action”.   How flat is “flat”?  don’t know if you reload or not, so I’ll assume ‘not’ and make recommendations accordingly.

I’ll start by admitting I have a bias against the .243, but that’s because I have seen too many elk wounded with it. In fact, I often recommend a .30-30 for beginners instead.  You already have a .30-30 and I won’t recommend a .243, so I’ll move on.

A .25-06 would be my choice in a .25.  For deer hunting I would not want a barrel longer than 24”.  The .25-06 is extremely versatile.  IMHO it is the best choice for a combo rifle, varmints and big game up to the size of deer and antelope.

Next stop would be a .270.  With heavy bullets light bullets (130g) it will take antelope way out and with 140-150g bullets is reliable on elk.

My first choice was a 7mm Rem Mag.  Its been taking prairie dogs to elk for 24 years.   A “bit” much for prairie dogs except for long distance practice to get in shape for elk season.  I only shoot 160g bullets and have never had to track an elk.  Longest shot was 350 yards, a pass-through that dropped a fine bull in its tracks.  For your purposes though, a 7mm Mag is probably more than what’s needed.

Now to the .30’s.  I think its hard to go wrong here.  I load my .308 win with 165-168g bullets and can hit clay pigeons at 300 yards with it.  With 150’s it would shoot even flatter and still have plenty of the ‘right stuff’ for deer.  In 24 years of hunting Colorado’s big game, I’ve never taken a shot that I couldn’t have taken just as easily and successfully with the .308 Win.  The .30-06 is never a bad choice, don’t need to say anything there except that if you get one you may never need another rifle.  My lineup of .30’s includes a .30-30, .308 win and a .300 Win Mag.  The .300 is only a couple years old and I’m still developing loads for it, but am very pleased with what it can do.  For “mostly Whitetail hunting”, though, the .300 is more than needed.


If it were me I’d look at the .25-06 for versatility and reach, the .270, .308 and.30-06. for general purpose big game rounds.

[alien319]

Thanks guys I appreciate the help.  I think I am going to go with the .270.  It seems to be a widely recommended round.  So now I just need to find the right rifle.  I am on a budget being that I am in the Marines.  Any info on some good affordable rifles in welcome.  Thanks for everything.

[nasem]

270 is a good round, if your budget is around 300-500, You can get a mossberg ATR 100 from Walmart for about $244, they only make em in 30-06 and .270..... I shot the 30-06 alot with this rifle and its very accurate gun (Im sure eveyone here agrees with me)

but being that Im starting to like stainless steel and ONLY stainless steel, I would strongly recommend the Howa lighting stainless (you can get one for like 300 lol) and they shoot real well.

If you got 500 bux to spend, get a ruger mk-ii all weather.

[beemanbeme]

I know it wasn't in the mix but why didn't someone mention the most nearly perfect deer cartridge of them all -- 7-08??  Use one for a bit and you'll turn you 270 into a tomato stake.

[nasem]

I was trying my hardest to stay with the follow of this thread.... the guy wanted a 7mm mag / 270 / or 243 So I tried my hardest to keep it on those 3 rounds....

Im sure 7-08, 308, 280, and such are ALL good deer rounds, but he picked 3 specific once

[Mike in Ct]

used 270 winchesters are everywhere...guys were selling them like crazy for newer cartridges....look around & take your time...My favorite is an old Sako hunter in 270 ..but I've picked up a couple of savage 270 win. just to convert to other calibers..They represent an outstanding value for accuracy & u can convert then to other calibers CHEAP...the only bad thing is they have to have a trigger job or new trigger installed If u get an older pre-accutrigger model...not a big deal really...But a bolt gun is no better than its sights & trigger..add a good barrel ...fancy stock...It adds up..they best part of the savage action is u can change out parts by yourself no gunsmith needed...Come over to the savage forum & see some of the guns...mike in ct

[lilabner]

The .270 is a good choice and should handle any shooting situations you will encounter.

[azshooter]

My choices for a deer rifle would be - in this order - 30-06, .308 Win, .270, 25-06, .243, .243 WSSM

Why not start at a 30 Cal?

[Val]

Unless you want a gun for larger game, I would go for the 25-06 for a Whitetail caliber. The 25-06 is a very flat shooter. I use 120 grain pellets with mine and I'm getting a chronographed muzzle velocity of 3008 fps. It's a great gun for antelope. Although, I go to a heavier caliber, some people swear by the 25-06 for pig. It's a nice moderate recoil.

[DavOh]

Savage 110 in .308(wood stock w/ accutrigger) $450-500

Leupold or Burris scope and rings(don't get frugal here either). $300+

case of ammo $100

Range time(2-3 times a month for minimum 6 months at all different ranges available) $90

Having a Rifle you KNOW will do the job, and you know will hit exactly where you want it to... PRICELESS

.308 is  GREAT starter round for kids and adults alike. plenty of ammo choices adapt to a wide range of recoil-sensetivities and and uses. Anything from coyotes to elk can be taken with a .308 with the right round.

MAGNUMS ARE BAD FOR BEGINNER SHOOTERS/HUNTERS.  Anyone who tries to tell you that you NEED magnum for deer(or even elk), take what they say with a grain of salt. There really is no reason to subject your wallet, and you shoulder to the punishment for a little flatter shooting, or a little faster velocity.  If you practice as much as you should with even a 7mag, your shoulder will not thank you for it.

If you really must go bigger than a .308, go with a .30-06 or any other non-magnum or so-called "lite-magnums"(the .25-06 types).

[jpred1]

Ive shot a lot of deer with mostly all the above mentioned.But my lil 7mm-08 has all the rest collecting dust in cabinet now.I havent lost a deer in 3 years and thats coming out of an handgun.