Author Topic: Best Caliber for someone new to big bore? (Read 2740 times)

rocky_taco · « **on:** February 12, 2006, 10:09:57 AM »

Well, Im finally ready to buy a FA after reading the forum for some time. But, Im not sure on what caliber to get. I dont want something that is too painful for me to shoot and enjoy. But, I still want something big enough to kill deer. Ive shot a 44 mag desert eagle before and it was fine to shoot. I also shot a grizzly 45 Win Mag once... it was a little more than I cared for, possible because the grips are so darn big Ive never shot a 454 casull. How much more recoil is felt with the casull over a 44 mag? Ive got a lot of shooting in with a 9mm Glock. But, whats the best caliber for someone new to big bore and sing action?

Will the weight of the 7.5" barrel reduce felt recoil over the 6" barrel?

BTW: this is the holster I like...
https://secure.aaa-servers.com/epsaddlery.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=1&PHPSESSID=8452d1cec52e2ffbf98b74a659f40405

Biscuits · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2006, 10:49:20 AM »

Probably not a good idea to start with the .454. I would suggest the .41 mag, .44 mag or .45 Colt. Also a .44 mag in a revolver is gonna recoil more than the 4 1/2lb gas operated semi-auto Desert Eagle. You could get a FA .454 with a spare .45 colt cylinder and work your way up till you find what is comfortable.
Hope this helps

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2006, 10:57:08 AM »

A .44 Magnum Model 83 would be my recommendation to you. Lots of mild loads you can use to get used to it and plenty of power at max load level for anything you'll ever hunt. It's been used to take game from grizzly and brown bears to elephant and cape buff. Not much a properly placed bullet from a .44 magnum will not cleanly kill. More gun is really about bragging rights more than being needed for use on game. Or to make up for the inability to properly place the bullet in hope a bigger hole will kill anyway. NEWS FLASH. It won't.

SJPrice · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2006, 02:24:57 PM »

No disrespect to the opinions of others, but I would first ask if you plan to load your own or if you will be relying on factory loads. If you plan to reload then I would take a different approach. I would suggest getting your FA in 454 or even better in 475 Linebaugh. You can load it down to whatever level you wish for practice and have the ability to work your way up to whatever load you ultimately are comfortable with. In addition the 475 Linebaugh is one of the most accurate cartridges out there. If on the other hand you will go factory then by all means consider the 44 Mag. It is not about hoping a bigger hole will make up for poor shooting. It is about getting the most versatility and the best penetration possible when you need it. And to a certain extent it is about having a more obscure cartridge as opposed to running with the crowd.

jphendren · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2006, 02:46:32 PM »

I currently own a .454 Casull, and have owned two .44 Magnums. In my opinion the .454 when loaded to factory levels produces much sharper/violent recoil than the .44 Magnum, I feel it is in a whole different league. I can comfortably shoot the .44 Magnum with little to no discomfort, the .454 on the other hand can be painful if the revolver is not held correctly. My .454 used to draw blood on occasion, I called FA and talked to somebody (don't know who), he informed me that I was holding the gun too high. He suggested that I hold it a little lower, with my pinky finger actually half-on/half-off the bottom of the grip. It worked! I never hit my middle finger on the trigger guard anymore, and no more blood. My .02 cents.

Jared

SJPrice · « **Reply #5 on:** February 12, 2006, 02:52:12 PM »

I to find a 454 to be a sharp uncomfortable factory round. On the other hand I find the 475 Linebaugh to be a very strong recoil, but not uncomfortable. If you reload you can get it to be a very effective round with recoil no harder than a 44

paul105 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 12, 2006, 05:32:37 PM »

Quote from: jphendren

I currently own a .454 Casull, and have owned two .44 Magnums. In my opinion the .454 when loaded to factory levels produces much sharper/violent recoil than the .44 Magnum, I feel it is in a whole different league. I can comfortably shoot the .44 Magnum with little to no discomfort, the .454 on the other hand can be painful if the revolver is not held correctly. My .454 used to draw blood on occasion, I called FA and talked to somebody (don't know who), he informed me that I was holding the gun too high. He suggested that I hold it a little lower, with my pinky finger actually half-on/half-off the bottom of the grip. It worked! I never hit my middle finger on the trigger guard anymore, and no more blood. My .02 cents.

Jared

I subscripe to the "He suggested that I hold it a little lower, with my pinky finger actually half-on/half-off the bottom of the grip." Although, this transfers the pain from the middle finger knuckle to the bottom part of your pinkie finger. The only question I have is:

Why doesn't FA make their grips without the flare at the bottom, and round off/bevel the bottom edge of their grips. This would facilitate their suggestion.

I've had the flare removed on the grips on both of my M97s and M83s. I requested that the bottom of the grips be beveled (not Freedom Arms) -- was told this wouldn't look right. Removing the flare helps alot with pinkee finger reco. It would help even more if the sharp edges at the bottom of the grips was also removed or rounded.

Paul

oso45-70 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2006, 05:57:16 PM »

Quote from: rocky_taco

Well, Im finally ready to buy a FA after reading the forum for some time. But, Im not sure on what caliber to get. I dont want something that is too painful for me to shoot and enjoy. But, I still want something big enough to kill deer. Ive shot a 44 mag desert eagle before and it was fine to shoot. I also shot a grizzly 45 Win Mag once... it was a little more than I cared for, possible because the grips are so darn big Ive never shot a 454 casull. How much more recoil is felt with the casull over a 44 mag? Ive got a lot of shooting in with a 9mm Glock. But, whats the best caliber for someone new to big bore and sing action?

Will the weight of the 7.5" barrel reduce felt recoil over the 6" barrel?

BTW: this is the holster I like...
https://secure.aaa-servers.com/epsaddlery.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=1&PHPSESSID=8452d1cec52e2ffbf98b74a659f40405

Rocky

If we are talking about black bear the 44mag or a 45 colt loaded with a healthy load will kill a black bear with ease. If you are not used to a 454 Casull it going to be pretty hard on you. All of them i have shot kick like a mule, The choice is yours

............Joe..........

rocky_taco · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2006, 11:32:46 AM »

Thanks for the info. I'm leaning toward the 44 mag, but someone mentioned to me today a new 480 ruger that is supposed to be a 475 but is loaded to a velocity that won't recoil as much as the 475 linebaugh. It was described to me as a 475 short. So will the 480 Ruger fit in the 475 linebaugh gun?

Graybeard · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2006, 11:50:03 AM »

Yes it will BUT FA does not recommend firing it in the longer chamber. They suggest you get a second separate shorter chambered cylinder to fire any shorter rounds in longer magnum chambered guns. The theory is that the build up in the chamber makes it difficult to chamber the longer rounds afterward.

There is merit to this theory especially in the tight tolerance FA guns. If you take the time to clean it out completely each time you'll likely never have a problem. But fail to just once and you will have problems.

I do like the .480 Ruger round but don't be fooled that recoil is that much less than the .475 Linebaugh. On average velocities with same bullet weights is about 200 fps less at most. It is to the .475 what the .44 Special is to the .44 Magnum or the .38 Speical is to the .357 Magnum as far as length is concerned. That means it's about 1/8" shorter I think it is. SAAMI pressure is darn near equal on them. Even with light loads recoil is much more than the .44 Magnum and with it a 325 grain bullet is considered a light weight whereas that's at the upper end of what the .44 magnum can handle.

Unless you plan to hunt game far bigger and more dangerous than deer and black bear you'll never need more than the .44 magnum and it is so nice to shoot in the FA83.

rocky_taco · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2006, 02:21:25 PM »

Well thanks again for the info. Sounds like the 44 is the way to start for me.

Feldhege · « **Reply #11 on:** February 14, 2006, 03:37:48 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard

A .44 Magnum Model 83 would be my recommendation to you. Lots of mild loads you can use to get used to it and plenty of power at max load level for anything you'll ever hunt. It's been used to take game from grizzly and brown bears to elephant and cape buff. Not much a properly placed bullet from a .44 magnum will not cleanly kill. More gun is really about bragging rights more than being needed for use on game. Or to make up for the inability to properly place the bullet in hope a bigger hole will kill anyway. NEWS FLASH. It won't.

I am so glad to hear someone say this. I have recently purchased as DW 44Mag with 4 & 8" barrels and the more I read, the more I get the feeling I should have bought a heavier caliber. It will be my first really big bore (also have a 357) and will be a hunting revolver. Thanks for reassuring me. I am happy again.

:grin:

454PB · « **Reply #12 on:** February 15, 2006, 07:01:58 PM »

If you handload, you can always load down. I load very mild .454 Casull loads for my 83 using .454 brass and adding a grain of powder to .45 Colt loading recipes. You can always drive a Corvette slowly, but a Civic can't be reved that high.

EdK · « **Reply #13 on:** February 16, 2006, 01:11:54 AM »

Quote from: 454PB

If you handload, you can always load down. I load very mild .454 Casull loads for my 83 using .454 brass and adding a grain of powder to .45 Colt loading recipes. You can always drive a Corvette slowly, but a Civic can't be reved that high.

Here, Here!!! This is the truth on the 454. Fullhouse 454 loads with light-for-caliber bullets may be harsh and/or sharp albeit no differently than with the 475. Think about it: same length straight walled case, same powder, similar weight bullet (for caliber) How could it be anything otherwise? Caveat: you must reload.

In the end I would heartily second a 44 mag as a first big-bore revolver and especially so for someone who does not reload. But if you're a reloader and one chance at a FA mod 83 is all you will get, then 454PB makes an excellent point.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 16, 2006, 02:01:33 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard

A .44 Magnum Model 83 would be my recommendation to you. Lots of mild loads you can use to get used to it and plenty of power at max load level for anything you'll ever hunt. It's been used to take game from grizzly and brown bears to elephant and cape buff. Not much a properly placed bullet from a .44 magnum will not cleanly kill. NEWS FLASH. It won't.

I thought your post was very good until I got to the part where you said:

"More gun is really about bragging rights more than being needed for use on game. Or to make up for the inability to properly place the bullet in hope a bigger hole will kill anyway."

I think this is such an untrue statement. It is only an assumption on your part and in my opinion wrong. I take pride in my shooting ability no matter the caliber. I think comments like this are totally uncalled for.

454PB · « **Reply #15 on:** February 16, 2006, 05:27:05 AM »

Maybe I live in a different economic reality than the rest of the world. No one is going to become proficient with one of the bigbore revolvers without doing a lot of shooting. With .454 factory ammo prices, it will cost a small fortune. I can't picture anyone I know that can afford to buy even .44 magnum factory loads in the volume needed. IMHO, either stay away from them if you don't handload, or accept the fact that they will be "safe queens" for impressing your friends and family.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16, 2006, 09:00:30 AM »

Quote from: 454PB

Maybe I live in a different economic reality than the rest of the world. No one is going to become proficient with one of the bigbore revolvers without doing a lot of shooting. With .454 factory ammo prices, it will cost a small fortune. I can't picture anyone I know that can afford to buy even .44 magnum factory loads in the volume needed. IMHO, either stay away from them if you don't handload, or accept the fact that they will be "safe queens" for impressing your friends and family.

Well I don't have that problem, I buy guns and can afford to feed them. I could care less about impressing my friends. Frankly I get sick of hearing those that can't afford to do so, thinking those of us that can, are trying to impress others. I buy guns for my pleasure not to impress you or anyone else. :roll:

454PB · « **Reply #17 on:** February 16, 2006, 06:58:00 PM »

I wasn't trying to insult anyone, when I bought my first .454, Freedom Arms was the only source of ammunition. It cost $65 per 50 rounds, and I was going through 200 rounds a week.

Congratulations for being able to spend that kind of money on ammo, most of us can't.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 17, 2006, 02:50:42 AM »

Quote from: 454PB

I wasn't trying to insult anyone, when I bought my first .454, Freedom Arms was the only source of ammunition. It cost $65 per 50 rounds, and I was going through 200 rounds a week.

Congratulations for being able to spend that kind of money on ammo, most of us can't.

As you are well aware of, you can get a variety of ammo these days for the 454 Casull, so what does the fact that you paid $65.00 years ago have to do with today?

And yes I count my blessing everyday that I am able to afford to play with my guns and afford to feed them. Also I reload :wink:

EdK · « **Reply #19 on:** February 18, 2006, 01:55:08 AM »

Quote from: Redhawk1

I think this is such an untrue statement. It is only an assumption on your part and in my opinion wrong...

I fail to percieve anything "untrue" concerning GB's statement.

Of course you are entitled to your own opinion...

And how does this help rocky_taco?

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 18, 2006, 02:23:29 AM »

OK EdK, seeing how you asked. The reason I find GB's statement untrue is it is his perception not reality. I buy guns for my needs and what I feel is needed to get the job done and I shoot them well no matter the bore size. To assume people buy big bore guns as GB but it,

"More gun is really about bragging rights more than being needed for use on game. Or to make up for the inability to properly place the bullet in hope a bigger hole will kill anyway."

is ridicules. It goes way back to the same old argument when the 44 Mag came out. Everyone thought it was way to much gun for hunting, now it is a medium size round by today's standards. Just because someone can't shot a big bore handgun well or accurately is no reason to assume other can't. That was my point and I think it is a valid point. Now have I met your approval with my post? If not, I don't think I could explain it any clearer.

EdK · « **Reply #21 on:** February 18, 2006, 05:54:54 AM »

Quote from: Redhawk1

OK EdK, seeing how you asked. The reason I find GB's statement untrue is it is his perception not reality. I buy guns for my needs and what I feel is needed to get the job done and I shoot them well no matter the bore size.

Good for you! However your own words betray this is based on your perception.

Quote from: Redhawk1

To assume people buy big bore guns as GB but it,

"More gun is really about bragging rights more than being needed for use on game. Or to make up for the inability to properly place the bullet in hope a bigger hole will kill anyway."

is ridicules. It goes way back to the same old argument when the 44 Mag came out. Everyone thought it was way to much gun for hunting, now it is a medium size round by today's standards.

Let me ask just who is everyone? Would that have been Elmer Keith, some other reputable personality or a just a myth you are perpetuating? So the 44 Mag is now medium sized - you're kidding right? Larry Kelly and J.D. Jones (among others) have successfully used it to take just about anything that walks, countless handgun hunters have used it on deer with great success for decades. Have you completely lost track of the fact that we are involved in discussing the purchase of a FA revolver to hunt deer with and for a person who is now comfortable with a Glock 9MM?

Quote from: Redhawk1

Just because someone can't shot a big bore handgun well or accurately is no reason to assume other can't. That was my point and I think it is a valid point. Now have I met your approval with my post? If not, I don't think I could explain it any clearer.

Your point is valid however irrelevant to the discussion. Approval? I think not: I for one would enjoy hearing you now explain to rocky_taco the benefits of why he should consider a handgun chambered in 500 Wyoming Express (or S&W 500 Mag) for deer hunting.

Graybeard · « **Reply #22 on:** February 18, 2006, 06:32:26 AM »

Perhaps it's only my perception but I stand by the comment as a valid observation NOT just a perception. It is based on about 40 years of handgun hunting done personally by me and my reading of the hunting exploits of many others. It also combines my many years of competition hangun experience and observations of others shooting in the field and on the range.

I'm aware of not one single animal alive today in the world and huntable with handguns that haven't been taken with complete success and satisfaction using the .44 Magnum. It is enough gun for all uses.

So anything more is not because of NEED it therefore has to be for some other reason. So pray tell what is the reason? It might just because you like and want more power. So be it and I say then go for it. But that power isn't needed it's just wanted. Therefore I surmise it's more for bragging rights than real need.

And not all shooters can handle the level of power of the .454 Casull and for sure not all need it. The guy says he wants a deer gun and for sure the .44 magnum is as good at that as there is. I've killed a slew of deer with it as have thousands of others. Will the .454 kill deer? Yup, but no better than the .44 Magnum. I've shot them with it too.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 18, 2006, 10:46:45 AM »

EdK, I never said he needed a 500 Mag or a 500 Wyoming Express to kill deer, please show me where I said that. As a matter of fact I agreed with GB's first part of his post about the 44 Mag for deer. Look at my first post on this topic. I disagreed with his statement and again I post this for you because you seem not to understand what I am talking about. As to who I am referring to as everyone, I should of said most handgun hunter when to 44 Mag came out were bashing the 44 Mag as much as they are bashing the 500 Mag and the 460 and 454 Casull now. There were a few the embraced the 44 Mag and made it what it is today, such a people like Elmer Keith. Could you imagine what he would do with the 500 Mag??
Yes, the 44 Mag is now medium sized compared to the 454 Casull, 460 Mag, 500 Mag and other rounds out there today. Sorry to bust your bubble. Again I never said the 44 Mag would not work. It is a very good round and has taken almost every game available. But my argument is not that but GB's statement.

"More gun is really about bragging rights more than being needed for use on game. Or to make up for the inability to properly place the bullet in hope a bigger hole will kill anyway."

Graybeard, your 40 years of handgun experience should be enough for you to not make judgement on others abilities, I know from my own experience I can shot my 454 Casull, 460 Mag and 500 Mag just as well as I can shoot my 44 Mag. Bragging about the size of my gun to whom? I don't need to brag to anyone and could care less about there opinions on what I like to shoot. No where did I say the 44 Mag would not work on deer, I just don't agree with your statement about bragging. You are very correct in saying, "not all shooters can handle the level of power of the .454 Casull." But some of us can.

EdK · « **Reply #24 on:** February 18, 2006, 06:29:27 PM »

Quote from: Redhawk1

EdK, I never said he needed a 500 Mag or a 500 Wyoming Express to kill deer, please show me where I said that.

Quote from: rocky_taco

Post subject: Best Caliber for someone new to big bore?

Well, I'm finally ready to buy a FA after reading the forum for some time. But, Im not sure on what caliber to get. I dont want something that is too painful for me to shoot and enjoy. But, I still want something big enough to kill deer... whats the best caliber for someone new to big bore

Quote from: Redhawk1

when the 44 Mag came out. Everyone thought it was way to much gun for hunting, now it is a medium size round by today's standards.

Quote from: EdK

So the 44 Mag is now medium sized - you're kidding right?

Quote from: Redhawk1

Yes, the 44 Mag is now medium sized compared to the 454 Casull, 460 Mag, 500 Mag.

Redhawk I've got news for you: the 357 is medium sized. Step back for a moment and look at what kind of confusion this nonsense you are spewing causes for the likes of new handgunners such as Feldhege who posted earlier in this thread. Rocky_taco deserves better too...

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 19, 2006, 05:10:25 AM »

EdK, no use keeping this P contest going. I stand by what I said and the 44 Mag is a medium sized round by my standards and a lot of others I know. This forum is for our opinions and experiences and I conveyed them, sorry you can't comprehend that.
Also I think GB is big enough to defend himself and speak for himself without you feeling you needed to step in for, as well as all the others you felt you needed to speak for. I don't think you and I have anything further to discuss on this. Now have a nice day. :roll:

Skeeterbaymac · « **Reply #26 on:** February 19, 2006, 05:40:51 AM »

Guy's Let us not forget why we are all here! to talk about good guns and get other folks opinions!

I think both GB and Redhawk have good points. GB you are right about the 44mag being all you need to get the job done. Redhawk you are correct in the fact that some folks like to use the bigger stuff and it's not all about whose got the bigger toy.

I live in Black bear country and I have in the past lived in griz country (Alaska). While never having a close call with a griz. I have had a close call of the scarry kind with a few black bears over the years. One young adult (about two years old) even charged a farm tractor I was on. I carry a 44 mag with heavy lead bullets and while it has done what it needed to do each and every time I had to use it. I will admit that when I did have to use it, I have always wished I had something more in my hand. My first thought is usually "I wish I had my 45-70 with me". Will a 44 mag cleanly kill an angry or wounded balck bear? Yes it will, I have proven it to my self more than once. Would I have used a bigger gun if I had it at the time? Yep!

Some wise man somewhere once said something to the effect of: "Use the biggest gun you can shoot well" For some folks it's a 454 or 500, for some, it's a 44mag. While I can shoot a 454 with full power loads. I just can't shoot one as well as a 44 mag. It has nothing to do with size or manhood, I am a big boy weighing over 300lbs, I just handle the 44mag recoil better. If I could shoot the 454 as well you can bet I would be walking around with it.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #27 on:** February 19, 2006, 06:02:47 AM »

Quote from: Skeeterbaymac

Guy's Let us not forget why we are all here! to talk about good guns and get other folks opinions!

I think both GB and Redhawk have good points. GB you are right about the 44mag being all you need to get the job done. Redhawk you are correct in the fact that some folks like to use the bigger stuff and it's not all about whose got the bigger toy.

I live in Black bear country and I have in the past lived in griz country (Alaska). While never having a close call with a griz. I have had a close call of the scarry kind with a few black bears over the years. One young adult (about two years old) even charged a farm tractor I was on. I carry a 44 mag with heavy lead bullets and while it has done what it needed to do each and every time I had to use it. I will admit that when I did have to use it, I have always wished I had something more in my hand. My first thought is usually "I wish I had my 45-70 with me". Will a 44 mag cleanly kill an angry or wounded balck bear? Yes it will, I have proven it to my self more than once. Would I have used a bigger gun if I had it at the time? Yep!

Some wise man somewhere once said something to the effect of: "Use the biggest gun you can shoot well" For some folks it's a 454 or 500, for some, it's a 44mag. While I can shoot a 454 with full power loads. I just can't shoot one as well as a 44 mag. It has nothing to do with size or manhood, I am a big boy weighing over 300lbs, I just handle the 44mag recoil better. If I could shoot the 454 as well you can bet I would be walking around with it.

Skeeterbaymac, it is good to see someone can see others points of view without trying to prove a point when there is not one to prove. I agree with you 100% and I also agree the 44 Mag is a great round. I have owned several 44 Mags in the past 25 years and still have one. I have just decided I prefer larger handguns, and have learned to shoot them every bit as well as I do my 44 Mags. You have to admit, the 44 Mag looks small compared to the handguns out today, 454 Casull, 460 Mags, 500 Mags and even the 45-70 and 450 Marlin.

Also I see you are from Maine, I was there in October on a black bear hunt. I was able to score on a smaller black bear with my 500 Mag. I am going back up there this year in September for another black bear hunt, I think the 460 will be the gun of choice this time. I think Maine is a beautiful State, I can't convince my wife to move there.

Skeeterbaymac · « **Reply #28 on:** February 19, 2006, 06:27:21 AM »

Redhawk: Glad to hear about your bear. Did you shoot it over a bait or hounds?

I will bet the 460 anchors them well. I am lucky my wife loves Maine. You couldn't drive us out of here with dynamite!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 19, 2006, 09:14:27 AM »

Quote from: Skeeterbaymac

Redhawk: Glad to hear about your bear. Did you shoot it over a bait or hounds?

I will bet the 460 anchors them well. I am lucky my wife loves Maine. You couldn't drive us out of here with dynamite!

I went with hounds, what a lot of climbing and hiking up and down them hills. I was a wore out puppy every night. My next hunt will be over bait just for something different.

My wife thinks it is way to cold for her up there. I was stationed at Minot AFB in North Dakota a long time ago and I love the northern States, the wife likes Arizona .