Author Topic: reloading?  (Read 2158 times)

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Offline Rustyinfla

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reloading?
« on: February 11, 2006, 11:13:55 AM »
Can you reload for a Glock? I have a Glock mdl 21 on the way and was just wondering.


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                  Rusty Jr.
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Offline pastorp

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reloading?
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2006, 05:04:59 AM »
Rusty, glock says not to shoot reloads or cast lead bullets in their guns. The reason is the chamber is not fully supported. There are aftermarket barrels available to correct this. Regards, Byron
Byron

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Offline Rustyinfla

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Reloading
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2006, 06:02:18 PM »
Thanks pastor I was thinking I had heard that somewhere. I wonder if the case is more or less supported than in a 1911 design?

  BTW I used to swap e-mails with a fellow in Nicklik (sp?) is that anywhere near you? I thin he was a little over an hour from Anchorage.

        Rusty <><
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Offline Savage

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reloading?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2006, 11:50:25 AM »
Most manufacturers issue disclamers against using reloaded ammo in their products. Good quality reloads are fine in Glock or any other firearm. Use jacketed or plated bullets with the factory barrels and reasonable loads. I have an aftermarket barrel for my 21, and  have put a wheelbarrow load of 200gr cast SWC bullets thru it. For full pressure defensive ammo, use factory ammo. Yes, the Glock has a large area of unsupported case head in the 6:00 position in the stock barrel. It's still quite safe with reasonable reloads with the low pressure .45.
Savage
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Offline Prebanpaul

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Re: reloading?
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2006, 02:46:35 PM »
WELL THERE IS AN ISSUE WITH MOST GLOCKS AND I CANT BELIEVE PEOPLE RELOADING THIS MISSED.  THE REASON WHY YOU CANT RELOAD GLOCK IS THE HEXAGONAL PATTERN IN RIFLEING  IN THEM.  THE LANDS ARE TO SHARP AND THERE FOR THEY LEAD THE BARREL EXTREMELY FAST CAUSING HIGH HIGH PRESSURE IN THE BARREL.  NOW TO THE POINT.  IF YOU CAN SHOOT +P AMMO IN THE GUN THERE IS NO CAUSE NOT TO ALLOW YOU TO RELOAD AT ANY REASONABLE PRESSURE. THE CASE HEAD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS.  NOW THE FUNNY THING IS THIS, THE MODEL 21 FOR SURE AND I DONT KNOW ABOUT THE OTHER GLOCK 45'S DOES NOT HAVE HEXAGONAL BARRELING. THERE FOR YOU CAN SHOOT LEAD IN THEM AND LOAD THEM TO NORMAL PRESSURE. I HAVE NO IDEA WHY GLOCK MADE THIS THE ONLY GUN WITH OUT THE HEXAGONAL BARREL.
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Offline Savage

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Re: reloading?
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2006, 01:25:09 PM »
Uh----------Paul-------while the .45acp Glock does indeed have hexagonal rifling, all the other stock Glock barrels have  polgonal rifling, which is also not lead friendly. In a nut shell, Glock reccomends the use of jacketed bullets only in their guns.

Savage
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Offline Prebanpaul

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Re: reloading?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2006, 01:55:18 AM »
RUSTY IN FLA,    I HATE TO DIFFER WITH YOU BUT YOU NEED TO GO TO GLOCKFAQ.COM      YOU WILL FIND THAT I AM RIGHT AND THAT THE 45 HAS OCTAGONAL RIFLING IN THE 45'S NOT HEXAGONAL LIKE ALL THE OTHER GLOCKS.   GO TO THE BARREL INFORMATION SECTION OF THIS.  THIS IS WHY YOU CAN SHOOT LEAD IN THEM.

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Offline Prebanpaul

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Re: reloading?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2006, 01:59:24 AM »
RUSTY SORRY ABOUT THAT     I MEANT THIS TO SAVAGE
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Offline Savage

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Re: reloading?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2006, 01:01:35 PM »
Oooooooops! You're correct Paul---------my bad! I have aftermarket barrels for my Glocks as I reload a lot of lead. Can't go wrong with cut rifiling!

Savage
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Online Dee

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Re: reloading?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2006, 03:46:49 PM »
Being a Glock armor since 1984 after going to a Glock armorer's school in Dallas, Tx. and firing thousands of reloads thru numerous Glocks of different caliburs as a range instructer for a police dept. I have heard the tales. Apparently none are true. ALL firearms dealers discourage shooting reloads. While at a Glock instructer school in Dallas about 15 years ago I was offered a Glock 21 that had over 235,000 rounds fired thru the same barrel and slide assembly. It had the lower receiver and trigger assembly replaced 3 or 4 times I don't remember. Back then the lower receiver cost me $37.50. By the way. Probably 35% of the rounds fired thru this test pistol were reloads. The barrel and slide (tenefer finished) were in perfect condition and probably could not be worn out in a lifetime due to the finish being 1 point below a diamond on the rockwell hardness scale. If the EPA would loosen up and let American gun makers use this process it would change the American gun industry.
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.

Offline BloomGrad

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Re: reloading?
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2006, 12:04:57 PM »
If you do load for your Glock all I can say is WATCH YOUR LOADS from the dies.  I have both a Glock 17 and 19 (my CCW gun).  I have a set of RCBS reloading dies.  I've had this otherwise reliable set for years.  The finished reloads that I get out of the dies are, most of the time, to large in diameter to fully chamber.  The result is the round is wedged into the barrel quite tight.  Brand of brass or overall trimmed length make no difference.

I found this problem early in life with the 19, my first Glock.  The round just not fully in the barrel and just out of battery so no abillity to fire or retract the slide.   To get it out of the barrel a solid soft brass rod had to be pressed down from the muzzle.  NOT THE SAFEST CURE but the only one at the range.  I popped out after the second wack.  I then tried the rest of the clip and on the fifth shot it happed again.  A nice day at the range ended there.  I inspected the rounds and they all fit within the min-max cartridge tool from Midway that I have on my bench.

The dies were readjusted again and loads were also tested in a Beretta M92F and a Browning HP.  Again the same fate when I shot the 19 and also with the 17 for the first time.

My investigation would lead me to believe that a combination of both a small Glock chamber design requirement and a VERY slight oversized die (but still within 9mm spec.) is the cause.  The rounds from the dies work in ALL my other 9mm's (Beretta, Browning, S&W along with others from the past ownership).

Research also lead me to believe this Glock chamber size is OEM and SOP in Europe with all of the funny pressured 9mm's they play with over there on that side of the ocean.  But I can't rule this same thing out with other Glocks

So a long story short is to check your loads for Glocks.

I no longer shoot reloads in the Glock 17 and 19.  Until I find a smaller base reloading dies set then I'm back in business!
Just my 2 cents

DAVE

Offline Savage

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Re: reloading?
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2006, 02:29:59 PM »
BloomGrad,
Again, a Lee Factory Crimp Die will solve your problems!
Savage
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Offline jro45

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Re: reloading?
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2006, 03:58:16 AM »
I've been reloading ever scence I got my Glock 22. I chafe my shells so I only have to resize them before reloading.
I never had any problems with reloading either.
The mouth of the shell has to seat on the chamber cause there isn't any other support for the shell when loaded.

Offline Savage

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Re: reloading?
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2006, 12:52:27 AM »
 I chafe my shells --------??
Sorry jro45, couldn't figure that one out.
I assume you're reffering to "Headspace" rather than support in your last sentence.

Full length resizing is a must in pistol calibers to assure reliable feeding. It's especially critical in the .40s fired in the Glocks to remove the case bulge just forward of the extractor groove. Watch carefully in this area for signs of case fatigue. Case head failure is common in this area if the brass is over worked. Enjoy reloading and shooting your Glock!
Savage
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Offline jro45

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Re: reloading?
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2006, 02:08:54 AM »
I chafe my shells --------??
Sorry jro45, couldn't figure that one out.
I assume you're reffering to "Headspace" rather than support in your last sentence.

Full length resizing is a must in pistol calibers to assure reliable feeding. It's especially critical in the .40s fired in the Glocks to remove the case bulge just forward of the extractor groove. Watch carefully in this area for signs of case fatigue. Case head failure is common in this area if the brass is over worked. Enjoy reloading and shooting your Glock!
Savage



To chafe a shell is to sharpen the inside of the mouth so the bullet can slip into the shell with a little pressure. That way you don't have to open up the mouth of the shell when loading. They make tools that do this.

Offline Savage

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Re: reloading?
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2006, 08:20:08 AM »
Thanks for the information! Chamfer I would have recognized, not familar with the term chafe. Who said the internet was not educational!
Savage
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Offline Arc Angel

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Reloading?
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2006, 01:11:48 PM »
 :)  Well, that was interesting.  Yes, in 45 ACP, the models:  21, 30, and 36 have octagonal rifling.  In 45 GAP, the models:  37, 38, and 39 also have octagonal rifling. 

'Chafe' had me cornfused, too.  What I don't understand is, 'Why' this would make it any safer or easier to fire reloads?  In a pistol cartridge, the most practical use for chamfering is to get rid of case stretch; the fact that it makes it easier to seat a bullet is an added benefit.  If you've been reloading for any amount of time, you know that if the, 'bell' is right, then, you aren't going to be shaving lead.  Besides, whenever you chamfer a case mouth you, also, have to de:burr.  I've only found it necessary to do this on straight-walled cases after more than 12-15 reloads. 

With a Glock I will rarely do this because as soon as I approach 12 reloads on any given case lot, I just throw the brass away. 

I have shot thousands and thousands of plated reloads through both aftermarket AND Glock factory barrels installed on my G-21's.  I have never had any kind of problem related to the:  RCBS, Dillon, or Redding die sets that I use.  People keep telling me about the benefits of the Lee FCD; but, I'm getting rounds that have that classic, 'coke bottle' shape straight out of my tapered crimp dies.  The only set that gave me trouble was the Dillon; I sent the sizing die back to the factory; they returned a tighter sizer to me; and everything's been fine ever since. 

Personally, I wouldn't attempt to shoot swaged lead bullets in any polygonal rifled barrel; but, I have had excellent success with plated bullets loaded to moderate velocities.  ;) 
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Offline Savage

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Re: reloading?
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2006, 03:41:21 AM »
Arc Angel,
Sounds like you do a good job keeping track of your brass! I shoot my brass till it splits, or I lose it, in the .45 and 9mm. I don't load or shoot the .40. I load only moderate loads using unsorted range brass. Some of the brass is thicker than others, (especially the Amerc, and some of the military brass)  With these, when the bullet is seated, a bulge in the case is created. These rounds won't chamber in some chambers. The only "fix" is to postsize or use the FLCD. Being a lazy sort, I use the FLCD in the last station of my reloading press, now all my reloads chamber regardless of the brass I use, or the dimensions of the chamber. Life is good------------ ;D
Savage
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Offline Arc Angel

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Re: reloading?
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2006, 07:24:05 AM »
 :) Yeah, Savage, it’s the, ‘near-misses’ that teach you to be careful.  I can relate to what you say about shooting pistol brass until the cases split.  (I’ll just bet that case splits have saved more pistoleros, myself included, from incipient head separation problems than anything else!)  It takes too long to use a pick to scrape the inside of every pistol case before you reload it. 

Let’s be honest:  Speed is everything in reloading pistol, ‘range brass’.  Trimming each pistol case to a consistent OCL is out of the question; so is interior scratching in order to feel for an incipient head separation.  Another reloader, more clever than myself, taught me a few tricks for processing range brass quickly. 

Start out by cleaning the brass first.  Next begin to sort the cases.  Pick up a handful of cases; shake them around in your partially closed palm; you should hear a, ‘bell-like’ sound.  If you do everything is, ‘fine’; and, you can throw these cases in the loading hopper.  If, however, you hear a dull, ‘clunk’ then you’ve got at least one split case in that handful.  While you’re doing this, also, take a good look at what’s in your hand.  If you see the same dull color, proceed.  If, however, you see a bulge or shiny ring just above the head toss that case(s). 

One of the things I don’t like about shooting a stock Glock pistol is the tendency for a Glock chamber to leave that enlarged ring around the base of many cases.  It's just dumb luck that both of my model G-21’s don’t have much of a tendency to do this.  I’ve seen Glock 9’s and 40’s that would leave me positively unsettled! 

Yes, I sort all my pistol brass by 100 round lots.  I mark each plastic box with the: date acquired or reloaded, the cartridge parameters, and the number of times that lot has been fired.  I use a huge cloth painter’s tarp (15’x15’) when I practice that I always place on the left-hand side.  When I finish emptying a 100 round pack, I’ll stop and pick up that brass.  It goes into a brown paper lunch bag that is marked with the same particulars as the original plastic box.  During a shooting match, I do the same thing as many other reloaders:  (You know they’re all brass thieves - Don't you!)  ;D  I use a magic marker in one of several colors to distinctively mark my case heads. 

I’ve finally given up trying to keep track of my brass at pistol shoots.  Nicest bunch of guys you’d ever want to meet; but, if you get as much as half of your own brass back then you’ve done very well for yourself!  My recent solution for group shoots comes from CCI; it’s called, ‘Blazer Aluminium’; and, if the brass thieves want it, well, it’s theirs with my compliments!  ;D 

Apparently you’re using that Lee FCD in the fifth station; I use a powder checker in the third station, instead.  It’s been my general experience that a powder checker die is worth more than anything else I might install.  I’ve, also, noticed that it’s still possible to produce loose bullets – even if an FCD die is used.  If you tighten the FCD mandrel down too much, the bullet – itself – can compress and spin loose in the case.  As long as I’m getting that classic, ‘coke bottle shape’ on my straight walled cases I’m satisfied that there are no problems with the batch.  My general experience has been that if the sizing die is correct and the seater/crimper is properly set up, then, the cartridges will come out right. 

I have not, however, reloaded any military pistol brass.  Until you mentioned it, the thought never even occurred to me.  Yeah, in this situation, you may very well have good reason for using a Lee factory crimp die. 

I, also, don’t shoot the 40 S&W.  I’m a die hard, 45 acp, pistol shooter; and, on the one hand, I don’t want to risk mixing a 40 in with my 45 cartridges.  On the other hand, I don’t need the high pressure or sharper recoil of the 40.  I’m tuned to my 45 acp pistols; and, these are the recoil characteristics I’m used to.  This reminds me of the old saw, ‘Start shooting with a 9mm; and, after you get used to the recoil, you can move up to a 45 acp.’  Yeah, right!  :o  Odd thing is that the 9 kicks even, 'harder' than the 45; and the 40 is exactly the same way.  It always seems to be the novice shooters who can’t distinguish the subtle recoil characteristics among these 3 rounds. 

Every older shooter I’ve asked has said the same thing:  'You get a slow heavy push with the 45 acp; (That seems to be easier to control.) and a fast hard crack from, both, the 9mm and 40 S&W.'  I know this has certainly been my experience; I’ll notice it every time I switch pistols with someone.  Still, if I didn’t own a number of 45 acp pistols, I’d probably go with the 40 over the 9.  In my opinion, it’s the:  universal availability, low cost, and tremendous number of firearms chambered for this caliber that keep the 9mm going strong. 

I, also, believe in reloading to, only, moderate velocities.  I’m more interested in decreasing my front sight, ‘dwell time’ than I am in shooting the loudest gun on the line!  ;D  My typical 45 acp load is a Berry Manufacturing, 230 grain, plated, RN bullet over 5.0 grains of Alliant, 'Red Dot' powder, and a CCI #300 large pistol primer.  The overall cartridge lengths will vary within spec. (1.270” max.) according to the brand and how many times the brass has been fired.  I always run my finished rounds through a Dillon case gauge – usually while I’m watching television.  (It’s all done with the fingers!)  :) 
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Offline jro45

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Re: reloading?
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2006, 04:43:40 AM »
Arc Angel, I shoot my 230 gr bullets out of my 45 ACP at 850 FPS all the time. I use Unique powder. A friend of mine wanted me to shoot his 45 ACP so I did and found using Red Dot powder , witch is what he used, the rounds shot off to the right. So I don't use that powder.

Offline Arc Angel

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Reloading?
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2006, 07:33:06 AM »
 :)  Yuppers, jro45!  That would be (another) maximum loading for 45 acp/230 RN.  I don't know, cause I wasn't there; but, it might have been his pistol rather than the Red Dot powder.  In any event, at 850 fps, your RD loading must have been right up there with mine.  The reason I switched from Unique to Red Dot was because a cannister of RD will last longer and load more rounds than Unique; and, it's a lot cleaner, too! 

I usually don't load at the top of the charts.  (Honest, I don't; I like nice comfortable loads and minimum recoil.)  With my Glocks, this is the first time in quite awhile that I have approached the higher end for a loading on a particular powder chart. 

My usual approach is to go with reduced recoil and mimimum front sight dwell time.  ;) 

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Offline jro45

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Re: reloading?
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2006, 10:39:09 AM »
Thats a wise decidion not to go right to the max load. I have found that easing up there is better

Offline S.S.

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Re: reloading?
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2006, 06:39:26 AM »
I purchased one of the first Glock 19's to come out of the Smyrna Factory
(I lived about 3 miles from it). I have reloaded for it every since I bought it !
No problems at all ? Every thing from 88 grain hollowpoints to 158 grain IMI's.
I have loaded 124 gr. Hard cast also. I guess no one told my Mdl 19 that it was not
supposed to fire reloads ! I believe the ammunition manufacturers give the firearms
manufacturers some incentives to place the "Do Not Use Reloads" in the Instruction manuals.
I fire reloads in all of my firearms. There is no reason that the reloaders can not turn out as High
of quality ammunition (OR HIGHER) as the ammunition manufacturers?
Just can not turn it out as fast ! Still shoots fine after Many, Many years.
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Offline Arc Angel

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Reloading - Especially For Glock
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2006, 10:24:48 AM »
 :) All true!  Except your own experience doesn't take the typical everyday, 'idiot factor' into consideration.  Allowances have to be made for those shooters who use soft lead rather than hard antimony lead.  These guys can surely lead up a Glock barrel.  Then there are the shooters who think the top of the loading chart is the starting point for really great loads!  There are, also, those who don't seat bullets properly and create high pressure problems for themselves, or else use magnum primers because that's what they've got on hand when standard primers are clearly called for.  Let's not even get into how to create your own headspace problems; but, many are the ways! 

In short so many things can go wrong when the, 'idiot factor' is entered into the reloading equation.  Like you, I also believe that I'm capable of manufacturing much better ammo than I can buy; but, to be honest, I don't always take the time; nor, do I put the effort into range pistol ammo that I do with rifle ammunition.  As a matter of fact my rifle press is a single stage RCBS Rock Chucker; but my pistol press is a Dillon XL 650!  (That, sort of, tells ya something doesn't it.) 

I'd have to guess that it's situations like these that firearm manufacturers are always trying to protect themselves against.  The only other thing I'd add is that with each successive new generation, Glock pistols seem to be getting more and more reliable.  I know I trust my 3rd generation Model G-21's more than I would first or second generation pistols.  (And I've, still, had reliability issues with both of my G-21's that took several months, and a lot of tinkering in order to bring up to 100% reliability.) 

My Glocks are there, now; but, they were no better than, about, 96% when they were new.  ;) 
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Offline akbearhunter

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Re: reloading?
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2006, 06:38:38 AM »
I started reloading for my Glock Model 27 (40 S&W) very soon after I got it. I'm actually a cast bullet shooter...and what now cost me $50.00 for 500 rounds of copper plated cast bullets...if I cast my own I can...make 1, 944 bullets for the same cost. I have now ordered a Bar-Sto barrel for cast bullets ($215.00)...and although the waiting time is a bit long...I'm looking forward to the 2.5" group they claim I can get at 25 yards with my "Baby Glock"!
Hunt with the wind in your face, honesty in all your dealings with others, and forget not to praise our Creator for yet another day...