Author Topic: Safari Club concerned about Pebble mine  (Read 1057 times)

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Offline Dand

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Safari Club concerned about Pebble mine
« on: February 09, 2006, 04:52:24 PM »
Safari Club International is concerned about the mines proposed near Iliamna.  Here is a letter from its president regarding HCR 29.  Folks might want to check it out on the State website. The first hearing on this resoultion is Friday Feb 10 at 1:00 pm.

February 8, 2006

Representative John Harris
House Speaker
Room 208
State Capitol,
Juneau, AK  99801-1182

Dear Mr. Speaker:

The Safari Club International (SCI) has been following the public discussions regarding the Pebble Mine proposal with great interest. SCI has numerous members residing in Alaska, as well as traveling to Alaska, to enjoy the rich outdoor recreational opportunities that your state provides.

We have been encouraged by our members, and others, to become engaged in this issue. At this time, SCI believes that the most prudent course of action is the one outlined in House Concurrent Resolution 29 (HCR29). This Resolution provides a careful, well thought out plan to gather all of the necessary data so that a well-informed decision may be made. SCI congratulates its authors and urges the Alaska Legislature to adopt HCR 29 as soon as possible.

We look forward to participating in the public participation process called for in HCR 29 and receiving the management plan from the Commissioner of Natural Resources when it is completed.  

Please contact me if you have any questions regarding SCI views on this important issue.

Sincerely,
 
Mike Simpson
President


Cc:       Representative Ethan Berkowitz
            Representative Les Gara
            Representative John Coghill
            Senator Ben Stevens
Senator Gary Stevens
Senator Johnny Ellis
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liberal Justice Hugo Black said, and I quote: "There are 'absolutes' in our Bill of Rights, and they were put there on purpose by men who knew what words meant and meant their prohibitions to be 'absolutes.'" End quote. From a recent article by Wayne LaPierre NRA

Offline Yukon Jack

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Safari Club concerned about Pebble mine
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2006, 02:44:01 PM »
Dand,
Basically, the EIS will answer all the questions the House Bill might bring up.  However, the part of the proposed bill is to come up with Area Management Plan, which could include recommending drilling for oil, other mining opportunities (aside from the world class Pebble deposit), etc...  The EIS is part of the NEPA process is mandated to allow public participation, so that part is already included.  This isn't anything earth shaking.

Could be a double-edged sword for those not wanting Pebble to go forward.

Pebble isn't really a project yet, the deposit has yet to be delinated, the mine development hasn't been designed, and the environmental studies are far from complete.  Could be that the cost for mining the gold, copper and moly coupled with transportation and energy cost far exceed the value of the deposit.  I still think the best thing we all can do is wait and see what the EIS says and what it recommends.

Offline Sourdough

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Safari Club concerned about Pebble mine
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2006, 02:51:32 PM »
Groups like this need to be banned from the State.   They are nothing but another environmental group that wants to see Alaska turned into a big tourist vacation spot.  They want to stop anything that is considered progress.  They don't want us to build a road, railroad, damn, mine, or anything else up here other than viewing platforms, and hotels.  They were in on the 11th hour lawsuite that tried to delay the Pogo Mine.  I wish they would stay down in the lower 48 and keep their nose out of our business.
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Offline Dand

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This one's different Sourdough
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2006, 12:40:14 AM »
This one's different Sourdough.  There are a quite a few life long Alaskans behind this effort, me included.  We're concerned at the rapidly diminishing open country right here in our home state.  Some of us are tired of folks from outside coming up grabbing the resources and leaving again.  This pit will be in my back yard but if it goes wrong could ruin my front yard as well. I want to know that the DNR is crossing the t's and dotting the i's and not being swayed by the current or future governor to give a wink and an nod to important issues this mine will create.

Heck in the hearing today, Commissioner Menge said, "We'll go through the process then issue the permits."  He didn't say "We'll go through the process and if all things look good, we'll issue the permits."  I forget the language he used a few minutes later but he sure glossed over the possibility that the state could say NO, our studies show it would be incorrect to issue a permit.  

I've worked for the state.  I was very aware of the pressures that can be brought to bear on how information is interpreted. I am also concerned that this HCR 29 might become the two edged sword.  But my biggest hope is that by having the legislature shine a light on the process, that there is more pressure to do high quality unbiased work.

I for one, hope my grand kids will be able to set out a net, take a rod and reel to the river, or a rifle up river and enjoy the wild lands, fish and game resources I am enjoying today.

At the rate I see growth in the lower 48 or even around Anchorage. Very soon lightly touched lands like we have here will be more rare than the gold underneath.
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liberal Justice Hugo Black said, and I quote: "There are 'absolutes' in our Bill of Rights, and they were put there on purpose by men who knew what words meant and meant their prohibitions to be 'absolutes.'" End quote. From a recent article by Wayne LaPierre NRA

Offline Yukon Jack

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Safari Club concerned about Pebble mine
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2006, 08:54:06 AM »
Dand,
I'm neither for or against the Pebble project right now.  No one has enough information to make a fair and balanced judgement.  You keep talking about IF's as "if" they are facts.  That isn't true and certainly isn't fair to anyone trying to keep informed on this issue.  One could as well say "if we ban all guns, crimes would cease" and have the same amount credence.

The environmental studies being done are by independent contractors.  Many are more "green" than "industry".  The impact to the area, environmental and social, will come out and be presented.  Until then, we just don't know.  There cannot be any lies or mistruths put out that lean toward developing this project.  There are far too many eyes going to be picking this thing apart from the environmental, professional, and legal points of view.

Do you realize that more than 87% of ALL National Wildlife Refuge land and waters, more than 50% of all National Parklands and waters, the two largest National Forests and many National Monuments in this country are located in Alaska?  There is more protected acreage from any development in Alaska than in all the other states combined!  Of the lands that can be developed, less than 2% have been.

I will agree with you, the scale of this proposal is huge and we should make sure that it is worth going forward (environmentally, socially, and otherwise).  We should do everything we can to make sure it is done right, if it becomes a project.  However, in turn, as Alaskans, if this is a good project, we should support it.

Just think, if everyone pulled a "NIMBY" for every project in the U.S., we would never get anything done.  Businesses are moving overseas at an alarming rate, we are importing more goods than ever, and for this country to continue to what we are, we are going to have to produce something.  Alaska gets huge amounts of Federal money for our bush communities, that is going to dry up one of these days.  It is our responsibility to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps and start paying our own way.

We just can't keep saying NO!, to every development project that comes down the pike without even looking at what the real issues are and how they could be addressed.

Offline Sourdough

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Safari Club concerned about Pebble mine
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2006, 10:01:25 AM »
I don't want to see the kind of things happening that happened here in the goldstream valley.  Mine taillings left everywhere with no regulations then.  We still have the scars left from them 100 years later.  We ned to learn to co-exist with our wild life.  But I don't want to see a repeat of the fieasco of last year, with the Pogo mine either.  

The operators of the Pogo mine in a show of good faith and goodwill, invited the Northern Environmental group and the Sierria Club to partisipate in all talks and planning.  According to everyone all was going well.  Then at the 11th hour a court injunction was filed and work was stopped.  The work had to be done in a small window or the project would be delayed for another year.  This court injunction was put in specifically to stop the project for the year, the complaintents were Northern Environmental and The Sierria Club.  It's called harrassment, and Governor Murkowski got into the act.  He called everyone togeather in a face to face meeting.  The lawsuite was dropped, and things proceeded.  Since this the Sierria Club has lost all the faith I had in it.  In my openion it is nothing but another environmental interest that is for the stopping of anything viewed as progress in the state.

Now the environmental groups are complaining that the road to the Pogo mine is giving hunters an unfair advantage.  The new road gives access to new areas, that were previously untouched, and the animals living in that area are not used to being hunted.  That's an unfair advantage?
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
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Offline Yukon Jack

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Safari Club concerned about Pebble mine
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2006, 03:02:31 PM »
Sourdough,
The SCI that Dand was referring to is Safari Club International, the hunting organization.  I agree that Sierra Club should be banned, and am particularly upset with Safari Club for weighing in on this at this stage.

Offline Dand

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This is what I have learned.
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2006, 06:25:03 PM »
I have never liked the Sierra Club at all myself.  But the incredible pressue they and similar groups put on the oil pipeline is a major reason we still have a good functioning system with very little spilled. The original designs would have failed by now - my dad reviewed them while he worked for the Corps of Engineers.

I see the same checks and balances system needed for other big projects. Its a messy ugly system but in the end a reasonably good solution is worked out.

For those of you who have great faith in the integrity of the State system just consider: during the initial study stages of the Red Dog mine the governor at the time marched into the Kotzebue Fish and Game office and told all present they would do NOTHING that would slow or stop development of that mine.  I don't consider that a carefully done high integrity study. That's cold hard politics and scientific facts be damned.

And you should look at the world wide history of metal sulfide mines. Red Dog will have to be treated for ever.  Its ore and much waste rock is exceptionally concentrated - but at least its contained in a relatively small area compared to the Pebble location. Some of the Fairbanks mines I understand have ore that is more easily treated and less toxic to start with- a much better ore to mine.   I have not looked into Pogo.

But the promises Northern Dynasty is making are the same promises that were made and already broken in the 1990's in Colorado, Montana, Idaho, and others.  And all those mines are much smaller than Pebble is proposed.  I'm not certain, but I believe all those mines are in areas much more arrid than Pebble, yet still, acid runoff or pollution of ground waters has occurred.  I seriously doubt massive progress has been made in tailings management and acid runoff control in the last 10 years.

In 1998, Wisconsin, under a Republican governor, adopted a moratorium on metal sulfide mines until a North American mine could be shown that operated for 10 years without polluting and /or  was closed for 10 years without polluting. I believe several attempts to show that mines have met that standard but upon state review, all have failed. The last effort was in about 2000 or 2001. The Crandon deposit is much smaller than Pebble.

What's more, Northern Dynasty won't be around to keep the promises.  They develop mines, make the promises, get the permits then sell the thing to a REAL mining company that does the work.  The state has to make sure whatever permits and standards they issue are binding on the outfit doing the work not these traveling salesmen who make the deals.  

One of the guys testifying in Juneau Friday is an Alaskan investment manager.  He said his company has a billion dollars in mine companies world wide.  I understood him to say his company owns 1/5 of Tech Cominco - HE said Pebble is in the wrong place for development. It was he who said Northern Dynasty hasn't mined an ounce of gold. He also said sulfide mines have a terrible history world wide.

A representative of AFL-CIO also spoke in SUPPORT of HCR -29 in Juneau on Friday!

These items made me sit up and listen.

I want to know all studies are done in an atmosphere where governors are NOT telling the state researchers what results to produce.

I hope Alaskans take the time to educate themselves about metal sulfide mines, so we can make an informed decision. Not just get smitten with the Madison Avenue slogans of the various factions. I admit I'm starting from the negative view point. Good work and data might convince me to change. But its going to have to be really good.

Google Northern Dynasty Minerals, Hunter Dickinson, Zortman- Landusky, Summittville Mine, Wisconsin Mine law, Crandon Mine, mine reclamation, acid runoff,  metallic sulfide mines.  See what conclusions you reach.
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liberal Justice Hugo Black said, and I quote: "There are 'absolutes' in our Bill of Rights, and they were put there on purpose by men who knew what words meant and meant their prohibitions to be 'absolutes.'" End quote. From a recent article by Wayne LaPierre NRA

Offline Yukon Jack

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Re: This is what I have learned.
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2006, 10:29:54 PM »
Quote from: Dand
One of the guys testifying in Juneau Friday is an Alaskan investment manager.  He said his company has a billion dollars in mine companies world wide.  I understood him to say his company owns 1/5 of Tech Cominco - HE said Pebble is in the wrong place for development. It was he who said Northern Dynasty hasn't mined an ounce of gold. He also said sulfide mines have a terrible history world wide.

The investment banker you speak of owns a fishing lodge near where the Pebble deposit located.  That is why he doesn't want it.

In this day and age, the State cannot run roughshod over policy and procedure.  There are too many groups with too much money and too many attorneys that it cannot happen.  If the State does not follow the process and makes the best decision based on the evidence presented, the whole thing goes to court.  It's going to go anyway, but if the State doesn't mind its p's and q's, the courts will side with plantiffs.  Just like when Wally Hickel wanted the Copper River Highway put through.  Without doing an EIS, without getting the permits, without any of the studies or public participation, he pushed the dozers forward.  In one day, an injunction was filed and the project stopped.  It was stopped by LAW.  

A lot of the concerns you keep bringing up cannot happen today because of new mining regulations, the Clean Water Act and the Clean Air Act.  By the way, the Red Dog Mine is on private land, not state land, the mineral estate is privately owned as well.  The state doesn't own the resource.

You never mention the great jobs the new mines are doing.  Fort Knox, Kensington, Greens Creek, etc...  These are all mines in very fragile environments, yet are not destroying the wilds or contaminating the planet.  These are new mines subject to all the laws and regulations governing mine development.  Pebble is the same.

It's not even a mine yet.  All they are doing is drilling core samples and trying to map the deposit.  The EIS teams are still collecting data, the economic feasilibility studies will done after that.  Then there is the permitting battle.  This thing is a long, long way from being a mine.  Why jump to conclusions now?  You realize, you are going to have at least a 10 year time frame to worry about this.

Offline Dand

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I don't think I'm jumping to conclusions.
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2006, 08:31:42 AM »
If we have such a transparent system in Alaska why did so many top DNR official walk off the job a couple months ago? Why did Murkowski publicly attack his own picked apppointment to head DNR? What kind of message did Murkowski send to those he chose for replacements to those who's consciences would not allow them to continue working for the state? Sure doesn't smell good to me.

And you think the behind the scenes stuff that happened 20 years ago can't happen today?

To me this is all the more reason for us to ask the Legislature to keep an eye on the executive branch.

You are well informed on some items its true.  I'm not well versed in Greens Cr except that it is an underground system and while in a sensitive area, it is not perched on the divide of two of the world's most productive salmon spawning areas.  And it remains to be seen just how great thier long term tailings handling is. They are currently experimenting in how to treat their tailings - that's good but the presentation I saw sure glossed over how they are dealing with the bulk of their tailings.

Kensington is a success? Have they even started mining yet? And they are still determined to sacrifice a lake and the fish in im - claiming it will all work out ok later.  I think it is very premature to say problems are solved there.

I'm not well informed on Fort Knox but I have been told that the ore is an oxide base, already exposed to oxygen and far less toxic to start than the sulfide ore (chalcopyrite for one) of Pebble.  A number of folks are still not convinced tailings management is the greatest there either - I don't know.  While there may be adult grayling in the tailings ponds, do you have spawning and rearing too? Has the flesh been tested for toxics?  How long will the liners survive there?  

Red Dog IS on private land but the adjacent streams and water bodies still are under the jurisdiction of of the state. The private land owner does not have the right to pollute those waters; though some is occurring, I know its monitored closely.  I have heard conflicting reports as to the effects of the runoff and don't know what to believe. And I believe some form of the Clean Water Act was in force when this mine was getting built.

Take a look at Illinois Creek. Typical of so many mine operations, the thing went bankrupt and the State, at tax payer expense had to do the final cleanup.  That site will have to be monitored for quite some time to assure the cleanup was suficient.

None of those mines are located within a hundred miles of several active volcanoes either.

Can't happen today? C'mon it still is.  I'll concede the system is better but I think it has a long way to go yet.  And I'm reluctant to experiment on the vast scale that would be needed to create the Pebble mine. And what about Northern Dynasty handing out envelopes of cash in closed meetings?

I don't think I'm jumping to conclusions. I'm trying to review the facts availabe from recent mine development and operations. What I've found so far just does not inspire me that these guys can do it so much better than less than 10 years ago. And they won't if there is no one there to keep their feet to the fire.

No Pebble is not a mine yet and it should never become one until we science and truly open public process determines that it can be done safely. Part of the process is to raise public awareness of all aspects of mine development.  NDM and the mine industry is pushing the supposed benefits.  

It is only appropriate that the perils get aired as well. Mine developers by nature are highly risk tolerant.  Who else would be willing to gamble so much of their and other people's money and environmental future to make a few bucks?

Me, I'm a biologist.  I spent my career doing my best to see the fish in these drainages were protected for ever and everybody.  We're cautious and very risk intolerant.
NRA Life

liberal Justice Hugo Black said, and I quote: "There are 'absolutes' in our Bill of Rights, and they were put there on purpose by men who knew what words meant and meant their prohibitions to be 'absolutes.'" End quote. From a recent article by Wayne LaPierre NRA

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Safari Club concerned about Pebble mine
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2006, 05:24:44 PM »
This is a great topic...thanks Dand for bringing it up and I hope it continues here..

Great posts with good info from very knowledgeable posters it appears.

I've studied this subject a bit recently as it came up as a side-bar to heated discussions all over SE about the Kennision Mine. The Kennision was recenly shut down due to water polution issues I believe and they really haven't started much except the road systems there.

The purposed Pebble Mine seems to be a very large dig in a very senceitive area of Alaska that could have huge impacts all forms of subsistance as well as the Alaska fishing industry, if or when something goes wrong, and with the obvious track record of the mining industry, that will probably happen.... just my opinion

Problem one is Murky would do anything possible to ditch both the Clean Water Act and the Clean Air Act as he wants anything that developes state resources and he cares not at all about environmental issues.... thats always been his MO. Anyone care to discuss his new policy of " mixing-zones " ? Clearly that was developed by the Murky administration to get around the  federal Clean Water Act....if thats incorrect, please enlighten me..

so...the dig is going to be huge, something like 2.5 miles wide and 1600 ft deep and the tailing will cover 20 squares miles of habitat....

Northern Dynasty's site...
http://www.northerndynastyminerals.com/ndm/Home.asp



ok...please don't beat me up here,Iam not on either side of this issue as yet... I've provided these links for no other reason than for the convenience of the readers here...

http://www.aktrekking.com/pebble/index.html

numerous pictures of the area here...
http://www.aktrekking.com/pebble/photos.html

http://www.dnr.state.ak.us/mlw/mining/largemine/pebble/

http://www.akcenter.org/publiclands/pebblemine.html

http://skytruth.mediatools.org/objects/view.acs?object_id=5984

video footage here...
http://pacificenvironment.org/article.php?id=804

Offline Yukon Jack

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Safari Club concerned about Pebble mine
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2006, 06:34:05 AM »
Kensington has been delayed because they changed their mining plan in the middle of the permitting process, not because of pollution issues.  Change the plan, permitting has to address that.

Dand,
The DNR officials walked off the job because of the way Murkowski wanted to deal with the O&G industry.  Not because he rolled back any protections.  He can't do that.

From today's paper.

Supporters of Pebble call jobs top priority
MINE: Outsiders, wealthy shouldn't have oversight, residents tell legislators.

By PAULA DOBBYN
Anchorage Daily News

Published: February 14, 2006
Last Modified: February 14, 2006 at 02:41 AM

Proponents of the giant Pebble gold and copper prospect near Iliamna got a boost from supporters who dominated the testimony Monday before a state House committee.


The House Resources Committee is considering a bipartisan resolution, introduced this month by Rep. Mike Hawker, R-Anchorage, calling for more oversight, public involvement and planning for the Pebble area. Most people who appeared before the panel Friday supported the resolution, saying the Bristol Bay watershed is too valuable for fishing, hunting and recreation to risk placing a huge, open-pit mine there without at least a management plan in place.

But on Monday, the testimony shifted dramatically. Several residents of the Bristol Bay region, including a mayor and some Native village corporation leaders, spoke in favor of the mine proposal and against the Hawker resolution.

"This resolution is nothing more than pandering to special interests, to the rich and famous and powerful outside interests that do not have a stake in the economic future and potential of the Pebble deposit," said Ralph Angasan of King Salmon.

Angasan is president of the Alaska Peninsula Corp., a Native corporation that represents several villages close to Pebble. He called Hawker's resolution a threat "to the survival of the Bristol Bay region." The people pushing it have engaged in exploitation, Angasan said.

"They have created scarcities, taken trophies and left nothing," he said.

Lisa Reimer, a director of Iliamna Natives Ltd., said residents who support the Pebble project are being outgunned.

"We don't have a billionaire backing us up," Reimer said.

She was referring to Anchorage money manager Bob Gillam, who is helping finance the Renewable Resources Coalition, a group organized about six months ago to try to derail the Pebble proposal. Gillam testified Friday in support of Hawker's resolution.

Gillam is a wealthy Anchorage sportsman who is president of McKinley Capital Management. He owns property near Lake Clark National Park, not far from the Pebble deposit. Gillam, through his company's spokesman, declined to comment Monday.

State Labor Commissioner Greg O'Claray said a management plan for the Pebble area is not necessary because the state's large-mine permitting process contains enough safeguards will that address the environmental, socioeconomic and other concerns that arise.

But Scott Brennan, head of the Anchorage-based nonprofit group Alaskans for Responsible Mining, called Hawker's resolution "sound public policy" that emphasizes public involvement and the Legislature's oversight role when it comes to huge projects like Pebble.

The company exploring Pebble, Northern Dynasty Minerals, has billed the prospect as potentially North America's largest gold mine and second largest copper mine. The company hasn't decided yet to develop Pebble. Northern Dynasty does not anticipate filing for permits until late 2007 and doesn't expect production until 2011 at the earliest.

Some committee members have expressed concerns that a management plan for Pebble might delay the massive project. But Department of Natural Resources officials said Monday that that is unlikely. The management plan, estimated to cost $400,000, would be developed concurrently with the federal and state permitting process, said Dick Mylius, a top land manager with the Department of Natural Resources.

"Our intention would be to wrap them up at the same time," he said.

DNR officials also clarified some differences between a management plan and an environmental impact statement or other mine permitting steps. A management plan looks at a broader range of nontechnical matters and provides detailed guidance on how a tract of land should be used. The large-mine permitting process examines often highly technical and scientific information on a specific development.

For example, during permitting, an environmental impact statement might present alternatives on the types of liners a mine tailings pond should have, while a management plan might recommend where such a treatment site might be located or whether one should be built at all, said DNR deputy commissioner Ed Fogels.

The mayor of the Lake and Peninsula Borough, which encompasses Pebble, told the committee he's not sure whether mining is the answer to his region's economic troubles. But something has to change because the Bristol Bay region has suffered with the downturn of the commercial fishing industry, and a tremendous out-migration of residents is taking place, said Mayor Glen Alsworth.

"Our villages are going to go to work or die," Alsworth said.

The Resources Committee has held the resolution until after the Lake and Peninsula Borough Assembly meets this month in Iliamna and takes a position on Hawker's measure. The Assembly in 2004 passed a resolution supporting the Pebble project.

Offline Yukon Jack

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« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2006, 07:12:06 AM »
Just to restate something I said earlier.  At this stage, I'm neither for or against having this mine go forward.  I do believe we need to wait till all the facts are in and concerns are addressed, or not, before making up our minds on this thing.

Until we have the facts, no one can say if this is a good project or not.

Offline Dand

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But will the Murkowski admin provide all fact?
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2006, 01:08:11 PM »
But if Murkowski fires his people when they encourage him to look at ALL the facts and options through appropriate channels- what are we likely to hear about this mine?

What about the process used to develop the memorandum of understanding between the state and NDM?  So a governor can go make a deal with a company before the facts are in and with no public process?  I'm asking; I don't know what the legal process is there but I'd sure feel better if he was more impartial until the facts came out.

I question how honest Trefon Angason was in his description of his relationship with Northern Dynasty.  He often travels around with them. Even tried to intimidate a newspaper man at a NDM sponsored private dinner. He's delusional enough to belive that NDM can solve the riddle of the Kvichak salmon in a short time though the problems have stumped numbers scientists at U of Washington, U of Alaska, Fish and Game, some from Japan and who knows where else for many years. He was making a campaign type promise that sounds good but means nothing. No wonder he believes a mine poses little threat.  Shoot he used to sleep through parts of the Board of Fish meetings while a member of that board.

I believe the community in which Mayor Alsworth lives has formally come out in opposition to the mine, as has Nondalton, Ekwok, New Stuyahok, and Koliganek and a number of others.  

I believe if Peter Christopher ( New Stuyahok) had been allowed to testify, he would have expressed opposition to the mine. I'll have to ask him next time I see him.

Wassilly Ilutsik spoke in favor of the mine, Bobby Andrew spoke against it - the village of Aleknagik is pretty split on the question as are members of Igiugig, the nearest village downstream from the proposed mine site on Lake Iliamna.

I too want FACTS to come out but to me it looks like Murkowski is so far in bed with industry I question the integrity of the whole process.

What about NDM's integrity.  While they were holding meetings in our area telling us they wouldn't touch Upper Talarik Creek, they were drilling cores within the drainage and now they announce a huge expansion of the deposit and indicate plans to mine it.  They were telling investors in New York and Europe that the operation would not be in the Iliamna / Kvichak drainage while their ground water and surface drainage studies show a complex exchange between the Koktuli (Mulchatna) River and at least two waters draining into the Iliamna and Kvichak (Upper Talarik Cr, and Kaskanak Cr.)  They told our meetings that the State was not providing any support or work on roads, ports and other local infrastructure, yet their presentation to the American Stock Exchange inferred just the opposite - that the State WAS doing port exploration and road work in preparation for the mine.

I don't know what to believe but it sure makes me concerned when their stories don't match depending on their audience.

Finally, yes Mr. Gillam is paying the price for opposing the Nondalton bridge.  I never knew he was a part of that. I've long supported the bridge for village safety as well as providing local economic opportunity.  At the time I figured the deposit was uneconomical and saw the bridge as offering an economical access point to L. Clark Park that would be a boon to Nondalton while allowing them some control of the activies and an environmentally safe opportunity.
NRA Life

liberal Justice Hugo Black said, and I quote: "There are 'absolutes' in our Bill of Rights, and they were put there on purpose by men who knew what words meant and meant their prohibitions to be 'absolutes.'" End quote. From a recent article by Wayne LaPierre NRA

Offline Yukon Jack

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Re: But will the Murkowski admin provide all fact?
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2006, 01:24:29 PM »
Quote from: Dand
But if Murkowski fires his people when they encourage him to look at ALL the facts and options through appropriate channels- what are we likely to hear about this mine?

The governor cannot permit, or not permit, the mine.  That isn't his jurisdiction.  He can ask legislature to approve incentives or a whole host of other deals, but the mine has to environmentally stand on its own.  Whether the governor recommends a tax break for community development or some type of shared power costs for bringing in an alternate energy source, etc... BUT he can only recommend that...

There will be more than the State's permitting office in this thing.  The Corps of Engineers, USFWS, NMFS, etc... will all be involved.  Even if the state officials top to bottom were as crooked as a dog's hind leg, the Feds wouldn't allow it if it isn't a sound project.

One thing that might help you breathe easier, Frank Murkowski will be long out of office before the permitting process is even close to being done.