Author Topic: Choosing a caliber/gun..7mm-08, 7mm mag, .300 WSM, 7mm WSM? (Read 1834 times)

BlackWolf · « **on:** February 01, 2006, 01:41:37 PM »

Ok for all of you who responded to my original post I appologize for this, it was totally gone from the forum when I got home from work last night. I'll try to keep it brief. I live in Pa, with rifles I hunt deer and black bear. I currently own and have been very successful with a .270 win. I recently got the itch to buy a new rifle and have been contemplating over the above listed calibers. the 7mm's seem to be appealing to me more and more, though I can't come close to deciding on one yet.... I plan to someday hunt elk, maybe moose also. the 7mm-08 might have to drop out due to being too similar to the .270 but then the .308 could be added to potential calibers. Recoil is a factor, I've never shot a .300 yet and can't say that I'm positive I'd want to..... (I do currently turkey hunt with 12 ga 3 1/2 inch mags which I've been told are similar in recoil to the .300 win). What do ya'll think about these calibers? The new WSM's are appealing to me and the 7mm wsm looks to have very good ballistics. I did find a very slightly used 7mm remmag with leupold vari x i 4-12 power scope - combo price $547. I've heard good things about Limbsaver recoil pads and also the PAST recoil shields, can anyone tell me what to expect recoil wise if one of those were added to any of the above guns? Also could you reccomend a gun maker and model to go with caliber choice. I'd like to put a nice Leupold on whatever gun I buy and hopefully keep the grand total at or around $1,000 if at all possible. Thanks in advance for your help and thanks to those who responded to the original post.

Happy Hunting,
BlackWolf

whitedogone · « **Reply #1 on:** February 01, 2006, 02:57:46 PM »

7mm Rem Mag.

nasem · « **Reply #2 on:** February 01, 2006, 03:06:20 PM »

7mm mag is a good choice man... recoil is a little more harsh than a 30-06 but very managable..... dude if you shoot 3&1/2 inch turkey loads you can step up your caliber to like a 338 win mag

Personally, if i had a choice between the two and my shots are always under 300 yards, i'd go with that powerhouse 338 win mag

Zachary · « **Reply #3 on:** February 01, 2006, 04:38:01 PM »

I checked with GB and he doesn't know what happened to the original post either.

As I had previously stated in my earlier post, your decision should be balanced. Specifically, will you hunt whitetails 90% of the time? Then the 7mm-08 is a good bet. Will you be hunting elk/moose 90% of the time? Then the .300 Win Mag or .300 WSM would be better choices.

There really is no such thing as being overgunned (unless you take it to the extreme and use something like a .375H&H Mag for whitetail deer.

), but there is such a thing as too much recoil.

Try and balance the game that you will be hunting most, with the maximum amount of recoil that you can accurately shoot. The .30-06 is truly an all around big game cartridge, but if you can shoot a .300WSM just as accurately, then you can use it for all game - even the whitetails.

I own a couple of 7mm Rem Mags, and they are one of my favorite cartridges, but I would prefer a .30-06 over the 7mag for elk and moose because of the heavier bullets and light magnum/high energy loads for the bigger stuff.

Zachary

BlackWolf · « **Reply #4 on:** February 01, 2006, 04:56:45 PM »

Thanks for your replys and Zachary, I hadn't thought of it like that. I would guess that something at or above 92% of my rifle hunting is and will continue to be whitetail hunting. Im guessing that it will be quite some time before I even get the chance to go on a hunt for elk or something larger.... Sort of trying to justify to myself that I "need" another gun by going that route I guess...... I do like the ballistics of both the 7mm mag/7mm wsm and the .300 win/.300 wsm. I'm just curious as to how the recoil will be out of either. At the local gun shop they gave extremely good reviews of the limbsaver pads and one went as far as to say his .270 feels like it recoils about 70% less than it did with the standard recoil pad. What are your opinions for the pair of .300's for whitetails? Is it truely "too much gun"?

I don't know about ya'll but I love a good gun discussion - especially when its going to lead to a new one in the gun safe!

BlackWolf

peakoftherut · « **Reply #5 on:** February 01, 2006, 05:03:38 PM »

The 7mm's don't really shoot flatter than the .270 and for deer you don't need anything that hit's harder. I would get the standard 300 mag.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #6 on:** February 01, 2006, 05:30:59 PM »

Blackwolf

In answer to your last question, no, a .300 Win Mag (or WSM) is not too much gun for whitetails any more than it is too much gun for antelope. It is a common and a very good choice for elk.

Comparing the .300 Win Mag to the .30-06, using bullets in the 150g to 200g range and an 8.5 pound rifle and scope combo, recoil for the .30-06 will run around 20 to 24 foot-pounds while the .300 will run 28 to 32. Neither is a good choice for a lot of prairie dog shooting. A 7mm Mag will run about 22 foot-pounds with a 160g load, and with the right bullet they are very effective on elk thats what I used almost exclusively for over 20 years. First thing I did to my 7mm Mag was replace the factorys hard plastic buttpad with a good recoil pad. My .300 has a so-so pad but its good enough.

My advice is scratch your itch. Either the 7mm Mag or the .300 Win Mag makes a fine rifle for most western hunting, which in my case includes antelope, mulies and elk. I use them both and if I ever move back east they will be my beanfield rifles.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #7 on:** February 01, 2006, 05:47:59 PM »

I don't think you said weather or not you hand load. Nope, I don't see it. I've used a lot of magnums and got over them years ago. I'd choose the 7-08 and if I was reloading, the 280 Rem. The beauty of the magnums is they deliever massive power at normal range. But more and more we see them used to justify shooting at extream range. But out to a couple hundred yards, the 7-08 or better the 280 Rem is more then enought. The advantage of the 7mm's over the 270 is their 160 and 175 gr bullets.

Then, if the opertunity to hunt moose comes along, you've an excuse to buy yet another rifle if you want. Personally I don't have a problem with either of the 7mm's on moose either. They've got the bullet's to do the job and it's about bullet's. Of course if your thinking of shooting moose at 300+ yds, I think I'd opt for the 300 mag with 200 gr bullets. Actually if I were shooting at a moose, I'd just get closer. I've used the 7x57 a great deal and my guess is the 7-08 is about on par. I've also used the 280 a good deal and would never choose a 7mm mag over it and I've used the 7mm mag a great deat also.

If you wanted a 30 cal, I'd stick with the 30-06, and I'm not a 30-06 fan, but I don't like recoil much either. I've worked with some 300 mags and owned a couple 338 mag's, that is past tense.

jro45 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 02, 2006, 02:30:01 AM »

I'd say the 7mm Mag is the way to go and or the 30/06.

PA-Joe · « **Reply #9 on:** February 02, 2006, 02:45:53 AM »

338 Federal! Your 270 already handles PA deer. You need an elk gun!

beemanbeme · « **Reply #10 on:** February 02, 2006, 11:44:29 AM »

7-08. I've never shot an elk with a 7-08 (I did killed one cow with a 280 and several elk with the 7mag) but if it was my only gun, I'd load up some 160gr NP's or Grand Slams, be aware of my range restrictions, and go elk hunting.
With you situation, I'd get the 7-08 and then when it was time to go elk or moose hunting, I'd trade the .270 for a .338.

Zachary · « **Reply #11 on:** February 02, 2006, 11:56:37 AM »

BlackWolf,

Truth be told, your good 'ole .270 Winchester is plenty good for whitetails.

The .300 Win Mag and .300 WSM kick hard - way harder than a .270 Winchester, especially with 180 grain bullets.

The Sims recoil pad is a good pad. I own a few. But I would not say that it reduces felt recoil 70% - to me that just sounds ridiculous. I think maybe 30% to 40% feels about right.

Zachary

nasem · « **Reply #12 on:** February 02, 2006, 01:32:56 PM »

if your gonna hunt whitetails 90% of the time then your 270 is plenty of that (and is an awesom choice)

I think you are looking for an excuse on a new rifle

(Belive me I did the same, I made my self belive that in 20 years I'll be going to africa to hunt, so I bought a 375 h&h about 1 month ago)

get something out of the ordinary for yourself, something "big", your 270 or 7mm or 300 win mag or 300 wsm (I put them all under the same category, flat, fast, small caliber)..... I will say it again

338 winchester mag....
338 winchesterrrrrrr mag...
338 winchesterrrrrrr magnum.....
338 winchesterrrrrrr magnummmmmmm!!

BlackWolf · « **Reply #13 on:** February 02, 2006, 01:42:26 PM »

I feel like im being brainwashed.... I'm seeing little .338's dancing in my dreams..

.... I think your pretty gosh darn near 100% right on the "I think your looking for an excuse to buy a new rifle". In fact, to back up a little bit my search started because I've been looking to get to the range more often and the 7mm-08 initially appealed to me very much because of the range of game capable of hunting with it, the light rifles its chambered in and still very mild recoil. (And what is so bad about wanting an excuse to buy a new gun!). Once I began looking people kept reccomending bigger and bigger.... my old man was the one who said "why the heck get anything but a 7mm mag if your going to get a new gun" Now, keep in mind, he used a 30-06 for years and recently joined me with his own .270 (my brother in law just ordered an SS savage in .270 also...). I don't always like to be exactly like everyone else so maybe the 7mm-08 is a good choice, then again.... for deer hunting in the area I hunt in (along the allegheny river and the VERY remote valleys directly off of it). Maybe the .25 WSSM isn't totally out of the question then if it would only be used for white tails/woodchucks?

Bubba Jack · « **Reply #14 on:** February 02, 2006, 02:21:13 PM »

Your .270 yields a little to the 7 mag, but is plenty rifle for deer and acceptable 200 yard elk gun. 30 calibers are sweet, but hit the shoulder hard. I would really look hard at the .338 win mag. I think you will find it kicks more like your shotgun than the 30's. Look at ballistics and loads, and bullet weights. 180 grain bullets out of a .338 are awsome and you can go to 275 grains if you want to. I use the 180 nosler ballistic tips, 180 Accu- Bonds and 210 grian partitions.

That being said to think about, I think the .338 and the .270 are all anyone needs except for a good varmit round, but I do also have 2 7mm-08's. They are basically .270 want a be's, but fun to shoot and will take game very efficiently :lol:

Bubba Jack

nasem · « **Reply #15 on:** February 02, 2006, 03:46:51 PM »

blackwolf-
you already have a nice - medium power round that is GREAT for long range (your 270)... Now I think its time for you to get a round that is ALSO great for long range but has MUCH more power (Im talking about 338 win mag), Im telling you with the 2 calibers, you'll really have some appealing fire-power

Zachary · « **Reply #16 on:** February 02, 2006, 04:18:52 PM »

The thing about the .338WM is that it is, IMHO, pretty much just a an elk/moose gun. Can you use it for whitetails? Yes, but it's not what many would consider their primary cartridge for whitetails.

When I hear .338 Win Mag, the first thing that comes to mind is "ELK GUN." That said, I like to use it on big wild hogs.

If you DO get a .338, given that over 90% of your hunting is for whitetails, you won't be using your .338 much.

Zachary

358Win · « **Reply #17 on:** February 02, 2006, 05:58:53 PM »

Well I'd naturally tell you to get a BLR in 358 Whincheser. Have more energy from 0 to 250 yards than the 30-06. Also less recoild due to a substantial reduction in the jet effect recoild and less muzzle blast tham tjhe 30-06..

Loaded with 200 grain bullets trajectory is the same as a 308 with 180 grain bullets. This is a great round for deer.

I you want to hunt elk or moose just put a 250 grain Nosler in and you still have plenty of punch and good trajectory out to about 250 yards. Sighted 3 inches high at 100 yards it is only 4 inched low at 250.

If you ever make it up north you can load 310 grain Woodleighs or 280 grain Swifts and have a wonderful large bear rifle.

The brass can be made from running 308 brass into a 358 die with tapered expander. Lee. Hornady and RCBS will all do this in a singel pass.

Also you can fireform 308s in the 358 chamber. I'e done this over 400 times and it has worked perfectly every time. In fact I say that fire forming 308s in the 358 chamber gives better results than runing 308 brass though you sizing die.

Then is down the road you want something lighter I'd go with the 260 Remingtion. Juss as effective as the 270 with less recoil. Then you'll have another caliber that can be made from 308 brass.

Bit of you've got another alternative try the 35 Whelen. Again more effective then the 338 Win Mag with less recoild.

Some efficientcy studies have been made that show the 35 calibers are the most effieient in terms of energy produced per grain of powder burned. And just punch a bigger hole than the 338. Better than50 foot-pounds per grain with the 35 Whelen and the 358 Whinchester can produce 60 foot pounds of energy per grain of powder burned.

lilabner · « **Reply #18 on:** February 03, 2006, 06:45:38 AM »

Love these kind of threads. I contributed before but darn if I can remember what I said! One thing I wouldn't change my mind on is the recoil factor. The .338 isn't exactly the kind of cartridge I would pick for a quiet day out at the gun range, and I wouldn't take it out of the safe for whitetails. Truth is, a .270 will kill elk, particularly with 150-160 gr. bullets like the Nosler partition. It wouldn't be my choice for elk, though. You definitely need another rifle and I would chose the 7mm Rem Magnum or 7 mm WSM. Probably the Rem. considering that Winchester may be a thing of the past. Like your .270, it is a great long range cartridge. Recoil is like a 30-06, a tad more in the heavy bullet weights. Killing power is adequate for elk. My second choice would be a .300 Magnum, which kills better if you are comfortable with the recoil. You would probably be more likely to use the 7mm Mag sometimes for deer hunting. If you go west for elk, carry a rifle that will reach out flat to 300 yards (and beyond if necessary). Don't handicap yourself with a 200-250 yard rifle.

Idaho_Hick · « **Reply #19 on:** February 03, 2006, 09:40:39 AM »

You have a good long range rifle which I would assume is scoped. May I ask if you have considered diversifying a little more by buying a short range rifle that would not be handicapped with good iron sights? My personal short range rifle is a 336 in 30-30. Its not glamorous, but on rainy/snowy days, I never can use the "my scope was fogged" excuse.

Just a thought.

DavOh · « **Reply #20 on:** February 03, 2006, 10:04:03 AM »

I don't know why there's not one already but, Here's a vote for the good ol .308win. Old reliable, PROVEN cartridge. Not that the mags you talked about aren't proven...
.308 is good from 50 out to 300 yds on deer. when tuned properly a .308 will out-reach my abilities which max at about 300. Think about it, there's a reason that Military snipers have used that cartridge for targets out to 1000yds. Granted I know noone who's shot a deer or elk at that range, but it stands to reason.
I've no experience with blackbears or elk, but I wouldnt hesitate to take the ol .308 after either of em.

longwalker · « **Reply #21 on:** February 03, 2006, 12:43:32 PM »

It's not on your list but how about considering a non magnum like a 35 Whelen, or 358 Winchesteror. How about a 338-06 or the new 338 Federal. Each of them plenty of gun for Elk, Moose, and Bears. In my opinion people worry far to much about balistic trajectories and "flat shooting" Calibers. Practice with your guns and you know where they will hit.

longwalker

Wolfe · « **Reply #22 on:** February 03, 2006, 07:27:58 PM »

I vote 7mm Rem Mag.

It's the choice I made in a similar situation as yours and I've been pleased I did.

BlackWolf · « **Reply #23 on:** February 04, 2006, 11:15:51 AM »

Thanks for your replies everyone. I think I'm going to shy away a little bit from the .338 size guns just for the fact that I can't imagine getting much pleasure from shooting such a high recoil piece of weaponry (well other than bragging about the big bruise the next day as well). I had minor surgery on Friday and as such I got to sneak to a couple of gun shops out of pity from my fiance.... I got to be real interested in the .25 wssm over the last few days and decided to check them out.... Found out real quick that with the recent Winchester closings.... you can't just walk into the store and say let me see a Model 70 Coyote Light in .25 WSSM. I think the 7mm caliber bullets are a very good addition to the .270. I also have strongly considered the .308 mentioned just a couple of posts ago. I think my decision now comes down to either 7mm Rem Mag or 7mm WSM. I know my local dealer has a 7mm Rem Mag Ruger M77 MkII with a Leupold VX I 4-12 scope on it (only 1 minor mark on the scope) package deal is $547. I also like the look of the Savage stainless/synthetic models (even the ones with the muzzel breaks, etc - any thoughts on them to help cushion the recoil/increase accuracy?). Anyone have any good opinions on either the 7mm Rem Mag or 7mm WSM? Or maybe the.308.... Let me know - thanks!

BlackWolf

nasem · « **Reply #24 on:** February 04, 2006, 03:43:33 PM »

I would go with the 7mm mag.... reputation of this caliber speaks for it self, but I just have to tell ya, ballistics wise, its gonna give you almost the same numbers as the .270, so, good luck with everything

countryrebel8174 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 18, 2006, 10:24:40 PM »

i may be a little late to get in on this thread but id go for the 300 win mag.
as far as elk are concerned you wont be dissapointed.... but if your worried thats its going to be too much gun for you id get the 308

country rebel

jmckinley · « **Reply #26 on:** March 21, 2006, 04:05:29 AM »

The gentleman I hunt with has a 300 win and 06 and we hunt elk most every year. He picks his A3-03 06 99.9% of the time and is not lacking for Elk or Oryx. I personally use a 270 or 06 for my hunting, I started to purchase a 300WSM or 300 Win and finally said what for? If I can't kill an elk with either of my rifles I need to stay at home. Plus most Mom and pops carry 06/270 ammo. Frankly you have a fine Elk round in the 270 I would go to the 06 and never look back. Less recoil means better shot placement i'd opt for the 06. My new toy is a 25-06 don't need it but I hunt goats and like the ballistics. Jess

beemanbeme · « **Reply #27 on:** March 21, 2006, 05:26:34 AM »

Yeah, right! a .270 is "almost" a 7mag like a dime is "almost" a dollar. :grin:

Whether you get a 7mag or a .300mag, you're gonna be packing a lot of extra wood and iron around those pennslvania woods while you're waiting for a maybe elk or moose hunt to come along. You really need two rifles and a 7-08 would be an excellent choice for hunting east of the big river. If you must make do with one, get a 30-06. Its done the job for 100 years and it still will. If the little nut holding the trigger works right. :grin: