Author Topic: how far will a rifle go ? (Read 1872 times)

dcnewyork · « **on:** January 23, 2006, 01:20:07 PM »

Ok ... i am wondering how far a rifle bullet will really actualy go. This is kind of a two part question; first is what is the maximum distance if gun is elevated to a high angle, second is how far will the bullet travel if the shot is basicly a normal hunting shot somewhere between 100-400 yards, even with a little too much hold over, that bullet has got to drop sometime. If you consider an average height of 5'9 ( actulal average american height) take in to consideration that the gun is not fired from that height , maybe 5'- 5'2 how far will an average bullet go before you have 5 feet of drop, in addition to the in rise which was used to compensate for tragectory. I have taken an educated guess and I am thinking that a bullet is not really going to go more than 1000 yards/ half a mile, under any sort of real condition. I am not talking about shooting a deer which is standing on the top of a mountian and having the bullet carry over the mountian and than back down the other side,

nasem · « **Reply #1 on:** January 23, 2006, 01:23:13 PM »

You know what a .22 caliber is right ? well, I have hard of guys, saying if they elevate thier rifle at the right angle, that bullet can go over 2000 yards (I have never tested this, but only heard some folks talkin about it)

So you can imagine what something like a 30-06 or a .308 winchester can do, ALOT further than that

marylandeer · « **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2006, 02:43:08 PM »

I have often wondered as well. I found this on the net you might find it interesting.

http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/May01.htm

hunt127588 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 23, 2006, 03:42:10 PM »

There was a recent writeup of a Army sniper in Iraq making a shot at 1250 meters. In order to accomplish his mission, he stated he had a hold over of 12 feet. That might give you an idea.

dcnewyork · « **Reply #4 on:** January 23, 2006, 05:00:29 PM »

that website did answer my question. but than again ....that was shooting a gun ata pretty extreme angle. I have never had a deer floating around at a 45 degree angle so I have never had reason to shoot my rifle at that kind of angle. BUT even a shotgun slug is very very dangerous if shot at that same angle. My opinion now after reading that research is that a rifle is about 2X as dangerous as a shotgun if both are shot in the most dangerous and irresponsible manner possible. But 2X as dangerous as very dangerous is simply too much danger^2!

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2006, 05:11:02 PM »

Quote from: dcnewyork

that website did answer my question. but than again ....that was shooting a gun ata pretty extreme angle. I have never had a deer floating around at a 45 degree angle so I have never had reason to shoot my rifle at that kind of angle. BUT even a shotgun slug is very very dangerous if shot at that same angle. My opinion now after reading that research is that a rifle is about 2X as dangerous as a shotgun if both are shot in the most dangerous and irresponsible manner possible. But 2X as dangerous as very dangerous is simply too much danger^2!

Don't assume that just cause a bullet strikes the ground that it's flight has stopped. If you even THINK there is a reason you need to check your fire in the field then please don't shoot!

Slamfire · « **Reply #6 on:** January 23, 2006, 06:59:30 PM »

Quote from: dcnewyork

that website did answer my question. but than again ....that was shooting a gun ata pretty extreme angle. I have never had a deer floating around at a 45 degree angle so I have never had reason to shoot my rifle at that kind of angle. BUT even a shotgun slug is very very dangerous if shot at that same angle. My opinion now after reading that research is that a rifle is about 2X as dangerous as a shotgun if both are shot in the most dangerous and irresponsible manner possible. But 2X as dangerous as very dangerous is simply too much danger^2!

A debate in PA about limiting the heavily populated southern tier of counties to shotgun only caused the Game Commission to conduct a study. Under the conditions you describe, the most irresponsible manner of use, there was not enough difference in the danger to the public at large to support the limit. Now I see that New York is opening to rifles the previously shotgun only counties. The answer of course is, much too far! Only empty hillsides make decent backstops, forest just won't do.

Mikey · « **Reply #7 on:** January 24, 2006, 02:38:18 AM »

A 22lr is dangerous to within 1.5 miles - slightly better than 2000 yds. A 45-70 firing a 500 gn bullet at a muzzle elevation of 35 degrees has been measured at 35 or 3600 yds with a projected mid-range trajectory of about 35 feet.

Normal hunting shots with a rifle sighted dead on at 100 m, on level terrain, should drop to the ground within about another 3-400 m. For example - a 30-06 firing a 180 gn bullet impacts dead on at 100 m, 2-3 " low at 200m, 9-10" low at 300 m and something like 16" low at 400m and may even hit the ground at that point depending on where you are holding. A 12 ga shotgun slug will drop 10" over 100m and may impact the ground within 200m. Also, if you take a standing shot on a whitetail at 100m on level ground you are actually shooting downward to put the slug into the chest or shoulder and in that case the slug would hit the ground earlier in its trajectory. HTH. Mikey.

Mikey · « **Reply #8 on:** January 24, 2006, 02:40:49 AM »

A 22lr is dangerous to within 1.5 miles - slightly better than 2000 yds. A 45-70 firing a 500 gn bullet at a muzzle elevation of 35 degrees has been measured at 35 or 3600 yds with a projected mid-range trajectory of about 35 feet.

Normal hunting shots with a rifle sighted dead on at 100 m, on level terrain, should drop to the ground within about another 3-400 m. For example - a 30-06 firing a 180 gn bullet impacts dead on at 100 m, 2-3 " low at 200m, 9-10" low at 300 m and something like 16" low at 400m and may even hit the ground at that point depending on where you are holding. A 12 ga shotgun slug will drop 10" over 100m and may impact the ground within 200m. Also, if you take a standing shot on a whitetail at 100m on level ground you are actually shooting downward to put the slug into the chest or shoulder and in that case the slug would hit the ground earlier in its trajectory. HTH. Mikey.

jvs · « **Reply #9 on:** January 24, 2006, 09:23:17 AM »

I heard a rumor that a Sniper in Vietnam had a confirmed kill at 1 1/4 miles with a .308. I dont know if it is true or if it was Carlos Halfcock. I believe 1 1/4 miles would be considered 'effective' range. While the last few percentage of distance would not be expected to produce fatal injuries, it could still put a hurting on somebody.

Some .22 rounds have a warning on the box that the longest distance the bullet could be expected to fly is 1 1/2 miles, should the angle be right.

Zachary · « **Reply #10 on:** January 24, 2006, 12:21:24 PM »

I read somewhere that a .338 Win Mag can "travel" over 2.5 miles.

Then again, I'm not quite sure how this is helpful to the bolt-actions forum.

Zachary

RicMic · « **Reply #11 on:** January 24, 2006, 02:46:16 PM »

It's Carlos Hathcock. It would be impossible to calculate the holdover/windage required for a 1.5 mile shot, as at that distance wind varables change several times. Besides a rifle shooting 1 MOA would arrive in a possible 276.4 inch circle (over 23 feet!) under perfect conditions.

while99 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 24, 2006, 05:02:35 PM »

If I remember correctly, the old 150 grain flat-based .30/06 load at 2,700 fps. that the Army used before and during WW1 had a range of 3,500 yards. By going to what they called the M-1 load (not to be confused with the M-1 rifle), which featured a 172 grain boat-tailed bullet at 2,660 fps, the range was extended to 5,500 yards. That demonstrates the effectiveness of a boat-tail in helping to increase ballistic efficiency at extreme ranges, long after the velocity has dropped to sub-sonic.
The Army later dropped that load in favor of the M-2 load which featured a 152 grain flat-based bullet at about 2,800 fps. That's the load we used in the M-1 rifle during WW2 and Korea.

I got most of the information above from page 109 of Jack O'Connor's book entitled "The Hunting Rifle".

darrell8937 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 07, 2006, 01:56:36 PM »

I remember from my Army days, that the maximum range or the M16A1 Rifle was 2653 meters ,, max effective range was 460 meters. Tid bits like this can get you out of guard duty. as well as a shinny pair of boots.

NimrodRx · « **Reply #14 on:** February 07, 2006, 04:18:51 PM »

Okay, so heres the situation. Youre squirrel hunting a national forest using a .22 LR. It is late September and a lot of foliage remains. A limb rat emerges on an oak limb 40 yards in front of you. You raise your rifle to 60 a degree plane, settle your cross hairs and squeeze.

Responsible shot???

RaySendero · « **Reply #15 on:** February 19, 2006, 01:00:07 PM »

I was asked once to work-up some of these figures for a local shooting range. I used JBM balistics basic trajectory calculator to obtain the following info:

Table reads:
Caliber, Max. distance (yds), Terminal Energy (ft-Lbs)

jvs · « **Reply #16 on:** February 20, 2006, 02:33:46 AM »

Quote from: NimrodRx

Okay, so heres the situation. Youre squirrel hunting a national forest using a .22 LR. It is late September and a lot of foliage remains. A limb rat emerges on an oak limb 40 yards in front of you. You raise your rifle to 60 a degree plane, settle your cross hairs and squeeze.

Responsible shot???

No. If you miss.

Yes. If you are absolutley sure nothing in your background view is in danger if the bullet passes through or richochets. Or if you are that far out in the boonies that 1.5 miles means nothing. I hunt squirrels on mountain sides or hollows. A 60 degree shot rarely means anything around here.

I believe 60 degrees is the angle at which a bullet travels the farthest and is the most dangerous. Tree Rats spend most of their time on the ground. Nothing wrong with waiting.

Your question asks about a squirrel on a tree limb and a 60 degree shot. It is not a safe/responsible shot under those conditions.

RaySendero · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2006, 04:43:10 PM »

Quote from: jvs

...
I believe 60 degrees is the angle at which a bullet travels the farthest and is the most dangerous. Tree Rats spend most of their time on the ground. Nothing wrong with waiting.
...

No the angle for the maximum ranges in my above post are between 29 and 36 degrees up from the horizontal. A 60 degree shot would only go about 1/2 the distances figured above. Also note the terminal energy for a .22 bullet is quite low at max distance!

Theshootist78 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2006, 08:10:34 AM »

So if a .22 has only 5 pounds of energy at the end of its flight, is it still dangerous/deadly? Would 5 pounds of energy even break the skin?
what about some of teh bigger stuff though? .223......20 pounds? .357... 25 pounds? .270.... 71 pounds ? I am not saying that they are not dangerous, I am just wondering what the threshold of penetration is, what is the point of being painfull/ injurious/ deadly?

corbanzo · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2006, 08:18:44 AM »

That would also depend on where the shot ended up (couldnt really say placement at that distance) If it were to hit the chest and the rib cage... might get stopped.... but say it went straight into the neck... then you wouldnt need much in the way of penetration. either way, I wouldn't want to get hit anywhere with any bullet still flying at any distance.

Theshootist78 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2006, 12:34:54 PM »

yes I concur that i would not want to get hit with any bullet at any time either, i am just wondering is anyone has information on what is required to break the skin on a human, i realize that there has to be a corealation between the diamater of teh bullet and its FP of energy. I am guessing that a .22lr with 5 pounds will not cause damage, but i am not sure about the .357 or .270?

??

RaySendero · « **Reply #21 on:** February 23, 2006, 05:26:34 PM »

Well, I was really hopeing someone could jump in hear and tell us about penetration of that low energy figure, too.

Checked my notes: It's really 4.5 ft-Lbs I must have rounded up when I wrote it up. Also I looked up the other stats that corresponds to the 4.5: Terminal velocity = 224 FPS, Bullet weight = 40 grains, time of flight = 16 seconds.

RaySendero · « **Reply #22 on:** April 18, 2006, 01:50:00 PM »

Quote from: RaySendero

Well, I was really hopeing someone could jump in hear and tell us about penetration of that low energy figure, too.

Checked my notes: It's really 4.5 ft-Lbs I must have rounded up when I wrote it up. Also I looked up the other stats that corresponds to the 4.5: Terminal velocity = 224 FPS, Bullet weight = 40 grains, time of flight = 16 seconds.

bbt.......? Anyone?

jrhen · « **Reply #23 on:** April 20, 2006, 06:29:28 PM »

Last night on Myth Busters they fired a 9mm and 30.06 straight up in the air to see if if the terminal velocity could kill someone. They came up with the downward speed of a 165gr FMJ bullet is 110 mph. In their testing on a pig head a bullet at that speed would not kill but could tear off a chunk of skin. (I think thats what was said, the wife was yapping and I missed some of it <sigh> They found the 9mm would go 4000 feet and the 30.06 would go 10,000 into the air. Roughly one half a mile for the 9 and one mile for the .06

We all know that people die from bullets beign shot into the air. The reason they gave was the bullet was not fired straight up, but at an angle which allowed the bullet to fly on a parabellic curve, which like hail mary pass in football the bullet keeps more of its speed due to rotational motion. (I think thats what was said, the wife was yapping and I missed some of it <sigh>

Look to catch a rerun of the show it was a good one. As for the wife, I thank the good Lord that she likes shooting almost as much as I do and we are the only couple I know that has a budgetary line item to save money to purchase firearms or reloading supplies. :-D

jro45 · « **Reply #24 on:** April 21, 2006, 02:56:47 AM »

My 300 RUM could go about 1600 yds and still have enought power to kill a deer, bear, or what ever. I don't know at what elavation I would have to shoot it at tho.

verhoositz · « **Reply #25 on:** April 22, 2006, 06:21:19 AM »

I just remember laying on a ridge many years ago in Wyoming looking at some sage goats thru some 10x glasses...and watching my hunting partner lose a $10 a shot bet repeatedly to our "guide" using a 7Mg when he couldn't come within 500 yards of hitting the goats no matter what angle he shot from...it was a looooong way off that ridge to the sage covered flat the goats were feeding in. ..'cause I could not see them with my naked eye, and even in my 10x50 glasses they looked like oversized ants. The guide was using a 50x spotting scope and was calling the distances for the not even close hits that made a big puff of dirt hitting. an "extra" $50 tip to the guide from my buddy! LOL! Later that day I found out how accurate he was when I busted a goat at what he called was 450 yards...and stepped off in his 36" inseams 444 long strides. I took the shot off the hood of his Bronco with a 257 'bob and held about 15"s over the fork in the goats headgear with the gun sighted in at 100 yards. Bang Flop I couldn't believe it. OBTW he called the goats horns at a little under 15"s and they measured 14 5/8ths...the guy was good for his word.
Ron

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #26 on:** April 22, 2006, 10:50:01 AM »

How about a .45-80-500 at two miles? Still had enough energy to penetrate 3 boards and bury itself 8 inches into the sand.

http://www.researchpress.co.uk/targets/sandyhook.htm

dharvey · « **Reply #27 on:** April 24, 2006, 04:30:50 PM »

It seems like I read or heard of a deer hunting accident a few years ago about a 14 year old boy that missed a deer with his .243 and killed a guy three miles away... True story, but the details may have been exagerated...

grousehunter · « **Reply #28 on:** April 25, 2006, 05:31:17 PM »

JVS, you are correct on the distance,and about Carlos, Everybody should read about Carlos Nathanial Hathcock III, everybody shoulr go to website www.US Marine Sniper and do some learnan!!!!!!!!