Which Rifle/Caliber would you choose?

[Big Tom]

OK...I am basically a Deer/Bear hunter living in Big woods country. Shots are fairly close in thick cover and the bucks can top the 200lb mark (when you are lucky)  I probably will go on a few Antelope, Muley or Elk hunts.

I already have a 7mm 08 Featherweight 70... .280 Rem and a .270 Sako 75 SS Lam. These are all more than adequate but very similar ballistically.
I want to add an agile, accurate rifle with a little more "thump" to round off my arsenal thats not a load to carry in the thick woods... maybe a .35 Whelen? .358? .308? 30.06?in a Mountain Rifle? Pump? or BLR lever?

Help...What would you choose to add to the arsenal?  :idea:

_________________
Tom

[bladerunner]

Guess what? I'm gonna suggest a Tikka   :-D  :-D  :-D

(I know most of you are SHOCKED because you had no idea I liked the brand :shock: )

I think a .308 is just "more of the same" compared to what you've got,so I'll say get the .338 win mag  

just my  :money:

[JDenis]

Well even though they are hard to find I'd pick a Weatherby Ultralight in the 338-06. Its a fairly light rifle, I think when I was looking into one they were around 6-3/4lbs unscoped. I have a 338-06 barrel for my encore and love it. I have not shot anything with it but paper. The recoil isn't bad at all in the encore format which tends to kick more than a traditional rifle (my opinion). My barrel seems to be accurate less than 1" at 100 yds. The big 338 bullet is good for bucking brush. The only downside in my opinion would be ammo availability. However If you reload its not a problem.

I also like the 35 whelen (close ballistically to 338-06), 358 and 450 marlin. However I think the range of the last two would be a drawback for an antelope, muley or elk hunt depending on hunting area.

Good luck, picking out a new rifle is a great feeling, I'd like to know what you end up with.

[CEJ1895]

[Paul Barnard]

You have some good all purpose rifles.  Your current battery can cover any open country pursuits you may have.  I bought a Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun when I was in your situation.  Light, fast handling, MOA accurate and powerful.  A fun gun.

[Buckfever]

How about a CZ Full Stock in a 9.3x62?  It is based off the 30-06 size cartridge.  Has less kick than a 300 win mag, mostly different pushes rather than the hard quick recoil.  Shoots 236gr-286gr.  Buy ammo at Graf's for $18.00 a box and will knock 6 different kinds of dog crap out of everything from deer, elk, and bears.  Good to 300yds.   Beautiful wood!!!!  A perfect compliment to the other rifles you have.
Buckfever

[JDK]

My first thought was a lever action is 35 Remington or other big bores from marlin.

[nasem]

try looking at the remington 7600 (pump rifles), they are very reliable, accurate, and some of thier modles came in 35 wheelen (which is a nice caliber for all bears)

[Idaho_Hick]

I second the opinion that you now need a good old fashioned thumper to fill yourself with nostalgia.  A lot of those old blakpowder rounds are making a come back, I personally want a 38-55, but there are lots of choices out there with the 45-70 being the most popular.  Of course, just about everybody has one now and they can kick you pretty good, so if you reload and have money maybe you could look into something like a 40-60?  Enjoy your hunt for a new rifle, that is almost as fun as shooting one, I think.

[victorcharlie]

My first thought was a lever action is 35 Remington or other big bores from marlin.

My first thought was the same!

Light and fast.......Marlin 336 in .35 Remington.........a little heavier........1895 in 45.70.......

[Brithunter]

Hmm,

     I am surprised that none of the Americans have suggested the ole .358" Winchester cartridge. As for rifle well choose one that suits you and fits you well. My personel tastes might not be yours so it's best that you pick what you like and are comfortable with  :wink: .

[CowboyEngr]

Your 270 & 280 are about as perfect antelope and mule deer rifles as are made.  Some people think elk require a cartridge with more bump, but it's really a matter of extreme situations if so.  I consider the 35 Whelen about perfect for elk at anything other than extremely long range.  The 338/06 would be a near duplicate.  The larger bore lever actions such as 444 Marlin or 45/70 are great at modest range, say 200 yds or so, but trajectory is an issue beyond that.

It's largely a matter of what your expected range is.  With elk, I think a rifle that drops less than 12" at 300 yds, with a 100 yd. zero, is entirely adequate for nearly all elk habitat.

My vote would be for a 35 Whelen and a 225 gr. bullet for those occasions when you consider your 280 a touch light.

[nm22250]

Sounds kinda like a hunting situation i would be in. I have to recommend a Savage 110 in 7mm rem. mag. From my experience it has more knockdown than a 270 but shoots basically the same with a heavier bullet.  That rifle is relatively easy to carry. Trust me 8-10 mile walks are no problem with that rifle. Paired with a good scope it will compete with any rifle out there... except customs.

[Butler]

a nice lever in 45-70 or a 20 inch barreled 375 H&H!!

[RicMic]

Marlin in 444, 450, or 45-70.  Ya gotta have one.

[Coyote Hunter]

Big Tom –

I’d say you have the .277-.284 range pretty well covered.  With the range of bullets and loads available the guns you have are quite adequate for antelope through elk.  So here’s my thoughts...

The .308 and 7mm-08 are peas in a pod.  And there isn’t that much difference between the .20 and .280 and the .30-06.  If I was going for a .30 I’d choose a .300 Win Mag.  

You didn’t mention a .338 but I’d suggest two – a .338-06 or a .338 Win Mag.  Both make excellent elk rifles.

Between the .358 and the .35 Whelen I’d go for the Whelen.

Like some others before me, I’m going to suggest something radically different though – a Marlin or Winchester levergun.  

.30-30  = Cheap to shoot, plenty of thump at 200 yards even for elk.  Low recoil, tons of fun.
.307 Win  = A .30-30 on steroids but more expensive to shoot.  Hard to find as they are no longer made.
.35 Remington = Similar to the .30-30 but makes a bigger hole going in.
.356Win = A .35 Remington on steroids.  Hard to find as they are no longer made.
.375Win = A .30-30 case blown out to .375. Hard to find as they are no longer made.
.38-55 = Like a .375Win but slightly larger bore, best suited to lead bullets that are slightly larger in diameter.
.444 Marlin = Broad range of ammo and bullets available.  Major “thump” and suitable for anything in North America.
450 Marlin = Limited ammo selection, broad range of bullets available.  Major “thump” and suitable for anything in North America.
.45-70 Govt = Broad range of ammo and bullets, from Cowboy loads to 40,000 CUP.  Major “thump” and suitable for anything in North America.

If you’re thinking “Why would I want a 100-yard rifle”, think again.  I have Marlins in .30-30, .375Win and .45-70 and all three are zeroed for MPBR (Maximum Point Blank Range) for a 6” target.  That means the bullet never rises or drops more than 3” from line of sight.  All three have MPBR’s in the range of 205 yards to 225 yards.  One of my favorite shooting pastimes is to plink clay pigeons at 200 yards with the Marlins.  Two years ago I took a mulie buck and a 6x6 bull elk at 192 and 213 lasered yards respectively with the .45-70.  Both were put down with extreme authority.  Earlier that year I took a buck antelope at 167 lasered yards with my Marlin in .375Win.  That, too, was an impressive put down.  But the Marlins (or Winchesters) are not limited to 200 yards, either.  The new Hornady LeverEvolution ammo makes the .30-30 a good 250 yard deer rifle, and I practice fairly regularly at ranges out to 300 yards with the Marlins.  Using the .375Win and .45-70 ( 5 shots each) I’ve dropped 8 of 10 steel rams at 500 meters.

For an “accurate rifle with a little more "thump" to round off my arsenal thats not a load to carry in the thick woods” I can heartily recommend a Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70.   Or a 450, or .444.  For sheer fun its hard to beat a .30-30.

[Coyote Hunter]

Oops, double post.

[Bigfoot]

Well even though they are hard to find I'd pick a Weatherby Ultralight in the 338-06.

From what I read these are unaccurate rifles. Weatherby screwed up the specs and oversized the chambers, rough chambers too. True, I don't know but I've read several owners complaining first hand. Too bad, the .338-06 deserves a good factory rifle.

[nm22250]

After reading some of the other replies a thought cam to mind. I guess i am kinda fond of the 7mm rem mag. I have taken big mulies from 40 to well over three hundred yards away with it. I have taken barbary sheep out to 267 yards (according to a range finder) and i have seen a friend take a nice 6x6 with his 7mm rem mag at a little over 300. In my opinion you cant go wrong with it.

rg

[JDenis]

I hadn't heard anything bad about the 338-06 weatherby ultralight until now. I assumed they dropped it because of poor sales. I apologize for recommending junk. Good thing I didn't buy one, I was really close to buying a used one in Kittery, Maine a couple years back. I still like the caliber, too bad they don't have a better platform for it. I have noticed some measurement differences in the cases when resizing (necking up) 30-06 brass and resizing 338-06 brass. I guess going for the 35 whelen would solve a lot of problems.

[bladerunner]

coyote hunter wrote:

.30-30 = Cheap to shoot, plenty of thump at 200 yards even for elk.

A 25-06 is considered a borderline to inadequate round for elk and at 200 yards has about 1600 ft-lbs of energy,the 30-30 has about 1000 ft-lbs,at best with factory loads...I would argue that the 30-30 is a good DEER caliber to 200 yds but a very poor elk caliber...to the point of being unethical.....I know elk have been killed with a 30-30,but deer have been killed with 22 shorts,too.....this is not to say it is a GOOD deer round

[Jimi]

Sounds like it may be time to step up to a .375H&H. Any number of good rifles to choose from too... I"m partial to the old M70's... but this will give you a rifle you can hunt anything with and will typically be the only one at deer camp in the UP. Unless you happen to find yourself in Elo (near Hougton)... then you'd be one of two .375H&H's in the UP ;-)

[3DTESTIFY]

How about Remington's new model 673 guide rifle in .350 Remington Magnum for those bears in the thick woods up on the upper peninsula.

[Coyote Hunter]

coyote hunter wrote:

.30-30 = Cheap to shoot, plenty of thump at 200 yards even for elk.

A 25-06 is considered a borderline to inadequate round for elk and at 200 yards has about 1600 ft-lbs of energy,the 30-30 has about 1000 ft-lbs,at best with factory loads...I would argue that the 30-30 is a good DEER caliber to 200 yds but a very poor elk caliber...to the point of being unethical.....I know elk have been killed with a 30-30,but deer have been killed with 22 shorts,too.....this is not to say it is a GOOD deer round

Bladerunner –

I understand what you are saying but don’t entirely agree.  

First, all the elk I have taken have been with a broadside, behind the shoulders shot.  In many cases that meant passing on a shot or waiting for an opportunity to develop – in one case 5 hours of waiting.  Other than the one bull I shot at 350 yards, all the others have been under 215 yards.  

Lets take a few other cartridges for comparison, all zeroed for Maximum Point Plank Range for a 6” diameter target (maximum departure above or below Line of Sight is 3.0”).  (This is how I zero all my big game hunting rifles.)

.243 Win, 100g Partition @ 3,000fps
Zero = 250 yards, MPBR = 293 yards
1430fpe @ 200 yards
+2.2” @ 200 yards

.257 Roberts, 120g Partition @ 2,900fps
Zero = 250 yards, MPBR = 293 yards
1607fpe @ 200 Yards
+2.2” @ 200 yards

.25-06, 12-g Partition @ 3,000fps
Zero = 243 yards, MPBR = 284 yards
1727fpe @ 200 Yards
+2.0” @ 200 yards


While I‘ve always argued the .243Win is not the best choice for elk, especially for inexperienced hunters, a shot placed behind the shoulders is quite lethal, even with only 1430fpe @ 200 yards.

How about the .30-30?  Let’ take my load:

.30-30, 170g Speer @ 2,300fps
Zero = 190 yards, MPBR = 222 yards
1235fpe @ 200 Yards
-0.8” @ 200 yards

1,000fpe @ 280 yards
-11.6” @ 280 yards

With less than an inch drop at 200 yards, the .30-30 is certainly adequate in the trajectory department.  The question then becomes is 1,235 foot-pounds of energy adequate.  I’ll take that energy and a .30 caliber 170g bullet any day over 1,430 foot-pounds and a .243 caliber 100g bullet.  It isn’t until you get to the .25-06 that the difference starts to become convincing.

Is the .30-30 the best choice for elk at 200 yards?  Not in my book, but it will do the job quite well if the shooter does theirs.

[nasem]

Im gonna agree with coyote hunter on that one....its really ALL about your shot, how well can you place your shot, It doesn't matter what you use sometimes, but if your one hell of a shot, your going to bring home alot of meat

[bladerunner]

Coyote hunter,
            I personally think that the energy level (even in your handloads) is inadequate....even with a perfect broadside shot....at 200 yards.Do your bullets actually exit?
I know this isn't a requirement to kill an animal,but it makes for a followable bloodtrail.(which I think you will need,because MOST elk will not drop with that energy level

I really shouldn't be expressing my opinion on this as I have never hunted elk,but I've shot alot of whitetails with a 243 and it is,to me,the MINIMUM for them......so,to me,the 30-30 isn't enough for elk at 200 yards

I guess the word in your post that got me started is "plenty"
As in "plenty" of thump even for elk at 200 yards

I disagree.....but will not harp on it   :grin:

[Coyote Hunter]

coyote hunter wrote:

.30-30 = Cheap to shoot, plenty of thump at 200 yards even for elk.

...I would argue that the 30-30 is a good DEER caliber to 200 yds but a very poor elk caliber...to the point of being unethical.....I know elk have been killed with a 30-30,but deer have been killed with 22 shorts,too.....this is not to say it is a GOOD deer round

I just got back from the range and have been thinking about this while driving back.

.30-30
170g Speer @ 2,300fps
Zero = 190 yards, MPBR = 222 yards
1235fpe @ 200 Yards
-0.8” @ 200 yards

.44 Magnum Revolver
 240g Speer JSP @ 1519fps
1229fpe @ Muzzle
971fpe @ 50 yards
868fpe @ 75 yards
779fpe @ 100 yards

.44 Mag Carbine
240g Speer JSP @ 1883fps
1498fpe @ 50 yards
1330fpe @ 75 yards
1179fpe @ 100 yards

Given good shot placement, most elk hunters I know would consider a .44 Mag revolver a reasonable choice at ranges out to 50 yards and most would consider a .30-30 and a .44 Mag carbine to be more or less equally effective out to about 100 yards.  But given your rational which considers only energy, the .44 Revolver is “very poor elk caliber...to the point of being unethical” even at muzzle-contact distances!

There are a lot of things I consider more or less unethical, but putting over 1,000fpe into the lungs of an elk isn’t one of them.  Another is trying to do that with a “Texas Heart Shot” (apologies to all Texans) with a .30-30 at 200 yards.  Or banging away at an elk 400 yards away when the best you’ve done at 100 yards was a 6” group.  Or going elk hunting with a rifle you’ve never shot. (It happens more than you would think.)  But taking a broadside shot with the same .30-30 and 170g loads you use to plink clay pigeons at 200 yards?  That doesn’t even come close in my book – its meat on the table.

[Coyote Hunter]

Coyote hunter,
            I personally think that the energy level (even in your handloads) is inadequate....even with a perfect broadside shot....at 200 yards.Do your bullets actually exit?
I know this isn't a requirement to kill an animal,but it makes for a followable bloodtrail.(which I think you will need,because MOST elk will not drop with that energy level

I really shouldn't be expressing my opinion on this as I have never hunted elk,but I've shot alot of whitetails with a 243 and it is,to me,the MINIMUM for them......so,to me,the 30-30 isn't enough for elk at 200 yards

I guess the word in your post that got me started is "plenty"
As in "plenty" of thump even for elk at 200 yards

I disagree.....but will not harp on it   :grin:

I have to admit I’ve never shot an elk with anything but my 7mm Mag and my .45-70.  

Shot an elk at 350 yards with my 7mm Mag and a 160g Grand Slam, dropped it in its tracks.  It got back up but only took a couple steps before going down again.  The retained energy at 350 yards would have been a hair under 1600fpe.  The bullet exited, carrying an unknown amount of energy with it.  I don’t think that elk would have known the difference if it had been hit with “only” 1235fpe instead.

My latest elk rifle is a .300 Win Mag though.  

[bladerunner]

Given that you have done this and it has worked for you......maybe I'm wrong.....I still don't think it's wise to suggest a 30-30 as an elk rifle because most are not nearly as skilled as you...most need a little extra punch because they will not wait for the "perfect" shot

I personally would like a caliber i can take a frontal shot with...I'm not much of a "magnum" fan.....I shot a 243 for years and have now switched to a 25-06....both are light calibers but I only hunt deer ( i know people that hunt deer with a 300 win. mag.   :shock: )

I'll take back the "unethical" comment because you seem to be a very ethical hunter,but in a novices hand,I believe there would be a lot of elk running off to die alone and never found..........just my .02

[jro45]

I would choose the 300 Win Mag. That rifle can reach out and get an animal no problem.