Is it really safe to make your own cannon/mortar?

[entsminger]

A most interesting discussion on wall thickness etc. I wish I understood half of it.  Someone mentioned that it wouldnt be shootable at N-SSA shoots using some formula of steel of thickness etc etc...? I guess other than cost that is the bottom line for me. Can I make this hollow propane tank qualify to be shootable ( aluminum balls) at N-SSA shoots and if so what is the best way to do it? If I'm understanding what I'm hearing, a roughly 3/8ths thick seamless liner with a thicker smaller powder chamber and tank filled with concrete is one way? Is there a safe way to do this with out filling the tank with concrete such as using a much thicker barrel/ liner with trunions welded to inner barrel etc.
  In all the discussion on this I never have heard from anyone what a large 12 1/4 diameter  one or two inch or more thick seamless pipe might cost? Is there even such a pipe in existance and what would anyone guess such a monster piece of pipe might cost?
 
 Thanks again!!!!!!!!!

[Double D]

 Someone mentioned that it wouldnt be shootable at N-SSA shoots using some formula of steel of thickness etc etc...? I guess other than cost that is the bottom line for me. Can I make this hollow propane tank qualify to be shootable ( aluminum balls) at N-SSA shoots and if so what is the best way to do it?

Now that is an entirely different issue all together.  I have my doubts about shooting in N-SSA matches.  You should present plans for your mortar to them before yoiu start construction for their determination.

Same with shooting in AAA matches.

[Grumpy_Old_Guy]

Seamless pipe does not exist. Pipe comes in a variety of wall thicknesses based on it's "schedule". Standard pipe is sch 40. Pipe sizes are mostly nominal, that is to say the sizes often mean little, for example 2" pipe is 2.375 od and wall thickness is 0.154, giving 2" pipe an id of 2.067. Wall thicknesses can vary by up to 12%!  14" pipe and larger reverts to exact size od, but from 14" to 42", the wall thicknesses are all .500". (Sch 40)
Tube on the other hand has sizes that actually make sense. 2" tube is exactly 2" od with dozens of wall thicknesses and materials available. Tube can be seamless or welded.
What is actally more usefull for cannon makers is known as "hollow bar". As the name would suggest this is round bar stock with a hole in the middle. Wide range of materials and dimentions, but be aware that the hole in the middle may not be concentric. This stuff is available mainly to save a ton of machining when making, well, cannons I guess...
Hope this helps.
John

[guardsgunner]

 Someone mentioned that it wouldnt be shootable at N-SSA shoots using some formula of steel of thickness etc etc...? I guess other than cost that is the bottom line for me. Can I make this hollow propane tank qualify to be shootable ( aluminum balls) at N-SSA shoots and if so what is the best way to do it?

Now that is an entirely different issue all together.  I have my doubts about shooting in N-SSA matches.  You should present plans for your mortar to them before yoiu start construction for their determination.

Same with shooting in AAA matches.

I agree with DD. Not going to happen. However you should still talk to them and get their input. They may point you in a new workable direction.
A new fully machined 10" mortar was approved for competition this past fall.

[entsminger]

I guess not being able to shoot such a cannon at a N-SSA shoot or others  and the inherent dangers that might be involved pretty much ends my plans to build this propane tank into a shootable mortar. I know of no where else one can shoot a cannon? Not in my one acre yard. I think it'll be safer and more sane to just make my big 13 inch replica for looks and focus more on someday making or buying a 10 inch exact reproduction like Paulson Brothers makes. If I find it's impossible to make my own there has got to be at least one person out there who will tire of moving several tons of iron around and eventually sell theirs for a price I can afford.

  Scott

[entsminger]

I guess not being able to shoot such a cannon at a N-SSA shoot or others  and the inherent dangers that might be involved pretty much ends my plans to build this propane tank into a shootable mortar. I know of no where else one can shoot a cannon? Not in my one acre yard. I think it'll be safer and more sane to just make my big 13 inch replica for looks and focus more on someday making or buying a 10 inch exact reproduction like Paulson Brothers makes. If I find it's impossible to make my own there has got to be at least one person out there who will tire of moving several tons of iron around and eventually sell theirs for a price I can afford.

  Scott

[CU_Cannon]

From what I gather the rules are a little more lenient for the AAA.  They seem to be more concerned with safety rather than historical accuracy.  

American Artillery Association    

I hope to get to one of their matches this summer.

[GGaskill]

I can't speak for either the N-SSA or the AAA, and it looks like they are hung up on dogma more than engineering, although I have too little experience with either to form an accurate judgment.  But I firmly believe that the propane tank Dictator simulator can be made safely as long as the restrictions (limited powder and shot weights) are conformed with.  But it will not be a sub $100 project.  I am guessing that individual shot would cost at least $100 each, the steel for the internal barrel will cost at least $500, and the machine work at least $500.  Then maybe $15 per shot if you use a full 1 lb charge.

These numbers are all guesses because I am not doing the work.  Only the person/company actually performing can give an accurate cost.  But my numbers are probably low so if you can't swing them, this is probably out of your reach now.

[Artilleryman]

The N-SSA requires that all artillery pieces and mortars be full scale both in exterior and interior dimensions.  There are other rules as to construction.  You can find their rules at the following website.  These rules are in PDF format and take a while to download if you have a dial up service.  Look in Sections 10-11.  

If you wish to compete I would recommend using a coehorn mortar as the larger seige mortars are much more difficult to transport, setup, and pick up.  

 http://www.n-ssa.org/NATIONAL/skirmisher.html

[GGaskill]

The N-SSA requires that all artillery pieces and mortars be full scale both in exterior and interior dimensions.

Interesting.  There must be no South Bend Replicas guns in their matches as they underbore all of their guns, as I recall.

[Artilleryman]

I have a South Bend 10 pdr Parrott with a 3 inch Paulson liner.   There are a number of small full scale guns that compete such as the Confederate mountain rifle.  They also have a howitzer class which has mountain howitzers shooting at 100 yds instead of 200 yards.

[Artilleryman]

I have a South Bend 10 pdr Parrott with a rifled 3 inch Paulson liner.   There are a number of small full scale guns that compete such as the Confederate mountain rifle.  They also have a howitzer class which has mountain howitzers shooting at 100 yds instead of 200 yards.

[Artilleryman]

I have a South Bend 10 pdr Parrott with a rifled 3 inch Paulson liner.   There are a number of small full scale guns that compete such as the Confederate mountain rifle.  They also have a howitzer class which has mountain howitzers shooting at 100 yds instead of 200 yards.

There are some scale guns still competing that were grandfathered in when they changed the rules to full size guns only.

[entsminger]

George, the kind of money you speak of, $500 for barrel material and $500 for machining etc etc are well within my grasp. I do think it would be awsome to make this thing shootable. I would think it would get lots of attention at shoots ?
   I'll keep an open mind to making this thing shoot but from what I'm hearing I still feel making it to satisfy the N-SSA or others rules may be a steep uphill or up cliff battle. I looked at the regulations and as usual got lost pretty quick. I need to find someone who sells some darn thick seamless barrel material and see what it will cost. Any suggestions who might sell some? I looked on the internet but can't seem to find any anywhere near as big as I would need.
  Scott

[GGaskill]

I know exactly where you can buy some stuff but it is in LA and very heavy.  Shipping it cross country by common carrier will double or more the price.  You need to find some local metals dealers and visit their yards, and if you buy, haul it home in your vehicle.  There are still some things that can't effectively be done via the internet.

I don't think you need thicker than half inch material for most of the inside tube, although thicker gives you a greater safely factor.  Certainly one inch should be way more than sufficient, ASSUMING that you use a 1 lb maximum charge and 55 lb hollow shot.  If there is a risk of exceeding either or both of these numbers, you need to build to those specifications, which will require thicker barrel material.

I understand the N-SSA rules from the perspective of having a level field for all the match participants.  Maybe you could be allowed to shoot but not be in the contest.  One of their stranger rules relates to shot material--ferrous (iron containing) shot is prohibited, so aluminum shot should be OK except for making minimum weight.

Too bad you live back there.  Out here we have lots of empty desert to launch bowling balls in.

[Cat Whisperer]

Scott -

  Someday I can see the good Lord blessing you with a huge piece of iron that someone is going to ask you to haul off their lot for nothing!

  You're in the hunt for this and SOMEDAY it's going to fall into place.  

  George has given you a good rule of thumb for a minimal shooter, and you know that I recommend examining someone else's successful design and making it stronger.

  So broaden your search.  I run into stuff all the time, just by talking and asking.  Fellow gave me 20 lbs of soft lead the other day - just to get rid of it; another sold me 10 bars (28 lbs ea.) of linotype - $5 apeace because that's what he could get for lead.  (I cast a few bullets now and then.)

Someday I'll find some big sections of iron pipe a yard or so long to make a serious wood burner.  

You've stated an objective.  It is human nature of folks to help other folks that want to do (..... fill in what ever .....).  You've done the key thing - set the objective.

Check the local welding shops - they see a lot of broken things to be welded.

Check the local machine shops - they make stuff for manufacturing companies - who throw away LOTS of stuff once it isn't being used for production.

You hit it right on the nose with the idea of the use of the tank!  I wish I'd thought of it!

What about advertizing in the local 'shopper'?

Ask who's in the know at the local HS or community college - great references too.

Recycle stations for metals will also put you into contact with people that deal with this stuff.

Who do I see for 4" 5" or 6" steel pipe?  A well driller!  

WHere is the piece of steel you're looking for come from?  That is what is it when it's new and who would throw the scrap away?

Last but not least, scrap yards.