Author Topic: Remington ADL Synthetic or Winchester M-70 Black Shadow?? (Read 2400 times)

Dutch4122 · « **on:** March 10, 2003, 02:25:57 PM »

Which would you prefer and why? I'm interested in one or the other chambered in .30-06. I can pick up either at the local Wallyworld for under $400.00. Any reasons to steer clear of either, or both? :?:

B Krumbach · « **Reply #1 on:** March 11, 2003, 02:58:25 AM »

I have a Winchester Model 70 Black Shadow, and while it's definitely not the nicest rifle, I've taken three deer in four years with it. Mine is a 30-06 and it came with a Simmons 3x9 scope. I was a dirt poor college student when I bought and half of the reason I bought it was because it came with a scope. Hindsight being 20/20, I wish I would have waited and bought something a little nicer. But I've had no problems with it whatsoever, and like you said, they're pretty inexpensive. I can't speak for the Remington ADL. Remember one thing about buying guns at Wal-Mart, if it's defective,you're stuck with it. They will not let you return any firearms. Just my two cents.

Zachary · « **Reply #2 on:** March 11, 2003, 04:22:31 AM »

For the money, it's hard to beat the 700 ADL. In fact, many custom rifle builders use either the BDL or ADL action.

I own several Remington 700s and I love them (although I prefer the Tikkas a bit more because of their better quality).

In any event, I would definately get the 700 ADL over the black shadow.

Zachary

Dutch4122 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 11, 2003, 07:13:27 AM »

B Krumbach- Thanks, I did not know that Walmart does not honor returns on firearms as I have never bought one there before.

Zachary- I've always liked the M-70 style safety better than the Remington safety; and the M-70 Black Shadow has a 24 inch barrel. Otherwise I assumed that the Remington would be at least of same quality or better than the Winchester. The ADL Synthetics I have looked at had better fit and finish than the M-70 Black Shadows I have seen.

One other question for anybody who may have heard or experienced this problem with the Winchester M-70 Black Shadow; I have heard that it is getting quite common to find one that just won't shoot better than coffee can sized groups. It has been reported on other forums that no matter what is done to accurize some of these rifles that they just refuse to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards. Has anybody seen this first hand or know a buddy who has had a problem with one of these rifles?

Thanks for the advice,

Zachary · « **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2003, 07:29:13 AM »

Dutch,

You are absolutely correct about the Black shadows having some sort of problems with accuracy. Unfortunately I had an important telephone conference to attend and thus was not able to complete my post.

I can't say, with all honest, that the Black Shadow problems are common, but I can say that I have heard accuracy problems from at least a dozen owners. Now, that may not sound like much given that thousands are made, but then again I don't know of others who have similar problems.

With regard to the saftey, that's a personal preference. I also own a few M70s - not the cheaper Black Shadows, but the more expensive Classic Stainless models. I can live without the 3-position safety - it doesn't really matter to me.

The reason that I strongly suggested the ADL ove the BS (Black Shadow - not pun intended) is because of my concern of possible accuracy problems. I don't know, maybe Winchester fixed the problems, but I'm not going to risk MY money on it.

Zachary

Wijbrandus · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2003, 07:53:38 AM »

I have the 700 ADL in 7 mm Rem Mag. Yes, it's the low end of the 700 line. Yes, it's synthetic, and a lot of people like wood.

However. It shoots very nice, and I have no issues shooting long with it. I have a 4.5-14 Leupold on it, and it does everything I want to do.

And I like the black plastic. (I know, I'm weird).

~Robert

Zachary · « **Reply #6 on:** March 11, 2003, 08:17:09 AM »

You're not weird. :wink: Most of my Remington BDL SS's have plastic stocks. Granted, I think that they are cheap and I try and replace them with true synthetic stocks from HS Precision and McMillan, but I prefer them over wood because they don't get damaged in the field. :wink:

Zachary

Dutch4122 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 11, 2003, 08:35:04 AM »

Thanks guys-

The more I look into this the more I think I should save my money a little longer and look at the higher grades in stainless steel; I was just on Remington's web site and I see that the ADL SS is offered with a 24" barrel. Problem is, every time I do that I run into something harder to find than an '06 and take it home instead. :oops:

Thanks again,

Zachary · « **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2003, 09:02:39 AM »

I think you mean BDL SS, not ADL SS...right?

Zachary

Dutch4122 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2003, 09:12:40 AM »

Yeah, BDL SS, exactly. My mind was kinda two places at once there for a minute. Thinkin' about that model 673 in .350 Rem Mag don't cha know!

AHHHH, so many toys and so very little time or money! :?

Zachary · « **Reply #10 on:** March 11, 2003, 10:47:16 AM »

You know Dutch, you should seriously consider the Tikkas. I own one and love it - the quality is outstanding and it is about the same price as the BDL SS.

Tikka will be coming out with the new Tikka T3 lite in Stainless. I am thinking about getting it in 300WSM.

Zachary

Dutch4122 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 11, 2003, 12:07:15 PM »

Thanks I'll definately keep the Tikka's in mind. Not too many gunshops in my area carry the "other" brands, but their are a couple (the ones I frequent the most as a matter of fact) that like to keep stocked with quality rifles as opposed to just "brand" names.

Gene · « **Reply #12 on:** March 16, 2003, 08:02:56 PM »

I bought a Mod 70 Black Shadow in 7WSM at WalMart in December. Yea it has a Simmons 3X9X40 scope and it isn't the prettisest rifle on the market. The short mags have a different style stock on them with a recoil pad that really works. It is soft and does reduce felt recoil by quite a bit. I use Simmons scopes on several handguns and currently all of my rifles. I've had no problems with them and they work fine for me. And I'm not a casual shooter!

As far as accuracy problems. I wish I had more rifles with this accuracy problem. My first load tested was 52 grains of Varget, CCI 250 primers, Speer 145 Spitzer bullets set to factory depth. At 110 yards my son put 3 shots in .470 of an inch center to center, distance 110 yards. I have spent a lot more than the $389.87 than this rifle cost and didn't shoot nearly this well. I can load my 7WSM from velocities from the 7-08 to better than the 7 Rem. Mag.. With the 24 inch barrel and the weight of 7.6 lbs. this rifle will be quite nice to carry in the Mtns of Northern Utah where I hunt the most. I feel very comfortalbe in the idea of using this rifle to take everything from varmits to elk. I have a had a ball with this gun so far and am looking at doing some more playing with it and seeing what velocities I can get with it. When I do check velocities it will be with my Oehler 35P Chonograph.

Gene