Author Topic: what is the ideal wolf rifle? (Read 3190 times)

Dand · « **on:** December 23, 2005, 11:59:10 AM »

I have been hiking a bit this fall and I'm finding wolf trails crossing my track once in a while. So I haven't seen any wolves but it got me thinking.

I've been carrying a 41 mag or 357 revolver just to have something along in case I get an opportunity at game. They are compact and easy to carry but they are far from ideal by any means.

My needs: light weight 5-6 lbs, accurate to 300+ yards, .243-.308 cal range, repeater desirable, short as possible to get through brush, probably scoped, if possible stainless, affordable.

Some of the local guys with wolf experience feel a .223 cal rifle too light or I'd consider my Ruger 1. I have a Win 94 30-30 but I'm not confident with it over 100 yds. And my 30-06 and 300 win are too heavy to pack along.

I'm interested to learn rifle, and cartridge, loads ideas.

I figured this might spark a good discussion too.

Merry Christmas to all.

Yukon Jack · « **Reply #1 on:** December 24, 2005, 10:23:37 PM »

An ultralight 257 Wby would be perfect, I think. It would weigh a little more than stated, probably right at 7 lbs scoped and ready to go.

NONYA · « **Reply #2 on:** December 25, 2005, 02:18:36 AM »

Down here the best rifle for wolf is one that dont leave any rifling marks on the bullets.

akpls · « **Reply #3 on:** December 27, 2005, 08:14:54 AM »

I have a .257 Roberts loaded up with some 75 gr. V-Max bullets that I should be able to use on wolf out to 300 Yards. As mentioned, the .257 Weatherby would be a good choice too. You'll get more range, but at the expense of more recoil (if that's a consideration).

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 27, 2005, 08:21:44 AM »

I think any 222, 223 will work inside of 300 yards. Lots of wolves been killed with the 223. That being said I think the ideal wolf caliber would be 243-264 cal. I really like the 243 with 85-100gr bullets. The sierra 85gr HPBT would be one bullet that I would use above most. Wolves can be fairly big but not big enough that a good 22-250 shooting 50-55gr bullets wouldn't do in at any reasonable range. The heavier bullets help with wind drift at extreme ranges.

Sourdough · « **Reply #5 on:** December 28, 2005, 08:30:36 PM »

I carry the venerable 30-06. Sited in for 300 yards, I'm 12 inches low at 400. I use a Shepard scope, and have made hits at 700 yards (missed a lot too). I use a Sierria 165gr HPBT traveling a little over 2800 fps. That is a pretty hot load. I carry a NEF Handi Rifle, or an Encore. I also carry a Mini-14 or a Contender carbine in .223 on the handlebars of my Ski-Doo Tundra for fast shots up close. But if the range is beyond 100 yards I pull out the 06.

I carried a .243 for a while, but wind got to be too much of a problem. The .243 would be affected too much by a slight cross wind. .223 was even worse.

After having a Grizzlie pay us a visit while skinning a fox two years ago in late Febuary, it's comforting having an 06 along. We backed off and let it have the fox, my buddy was not comfortable with his .223 for defense under that situation. He got behind me and stayed there.

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 28, 2005, 09:19:08 PM »

I have been using this AR for night and close range calling. Its good out to 250 yards with a dead on hold. I had been shooting the 52gr HP but I think I'll step up to a 60gr SP or 68gr MHP. The heavier bullets shoot nearly as flat and should hit a little harder if a wolf in encountered.

Dand · « **Reply #7 on:** December 28, 2005, 10:53:56 PM »

Thanks for the ideas. The 257 WBY was one I would never have considered - have to look into that. The 257 Roberts IS one I have thought about. And a Handi rifle has also been an interest of mine. Wind is a very serious consideration here. I think its been blowing 15-25 NNE for a week now with higher gusts. I think that and the light bullets were the reasons my local contact felt pretty strong that .22 cal guns just don't have it, including the 22-250. He was a pretty serious fur taker at one time but I've lost track of him lately. Just today I got 2 separate reports of possible bear sightings recently. Maybe the thawing is shaking a few out. Maybe the .300 and some X bullets would be smart after all. I've been prancing around the tundra with the 357 and light lead loads for grouse and rabbit, with a few 158 JSP along just in case. Wouldn't do much on an iced up brown bear.

Well, keep the ideas flowing. I appreciate the discussion.

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 29, 2005, 12:55:35 AM »

I shot a couple deer with the 68gr Match HP black hills load back in michigan. I have no doubt that with good placement it will kill any wolf. I do think the 6mm and 6.5mm hold the edge in long range wind bucking over any 22 centerfire. Probably the 6.5 has the best selection of high BC bullets for long range work. I know a guy who does a lot of wolf hunting off snowmachines and uses a 7mm Rem mag. He shoots 140gr ballistic tips and has shot wolves out to some pretty long ranges. You 300 with a heavily constructed bullet or even a solid would probably work very well. Just avoid the shoulder bones on any smaller furbearers.

Dand · « **Reply #9 on:** December 29, 2005, 07:40:09 PM »

Dand · « **Reply #10 on:** January 01, 2006, 05:17:07 PM »

Hey Yukon, that ultralight Weatherby does look like a very nice rifle but I think its way out of my price range - I'm mostly dreaming anyway. But it sure looks like a nice gun.

I might have to lurk around for a model 7 in 7mm-08 or 260 or 308. Its fun to think about it. Hmm, a 7 in 308 would be a great trainer for the boys.

Yukon Jack · « **Reply #11 on:** January 01, 2006, 09:24:31 PM »

Quote from: Dand

Hey Yukon, that ultralight Weatherby does look like a very nice rifle but I think its way out of my price range - I'm mostly dreaming anyway. But it sure looks like a nice gun.

The prices they are asking for them now is out of my price range as well!!! I picked this one up at around 1/3 of Wby's MSRP. Brand new from a dealer getting out of the business in Indiana. Helps to keep an eye on deals on GunsAmerica, GunBroker, Auction Arms, and sites like GBO, LRH, AR, etc... I got lucky and admit that!

I'll be spending some of the savings on a lightweight stock from some other shop. The Wby B&C stock weighs in about 33 ounces, and figure I can save 12-14 ounces by going with a Lone Wolf or Bansner. I just can't like that Wby profile stock anyway. I don't like the Monte Carlo hump and never have liked a flat forearm on a hunting rifle. Bansner has a really nice 20 ounce classic style stock that fits these rifles and will probably go with that.

If Lawdog reads this, I'll be ducking.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #12 on:** January 02, 2006, 04:20:38 AM »

I've got a Ruger 77 (old tang safety) ultra light in .243 with a fixed 4X. The rig with scope mounts and loaded is a shade over 7 lbs.

Sourdough · « **Reply #13 on:** January 03, 2006, 10:24:59 AM »

The best rifle is the one you have on hand and shoot well, that is adiquate to make a humane kill. What you have on hand, and your confidence with it has a lot to do with it. Back when I only owned one gun I killed everything with a .308. Moose to Whitetail, Bears to Pigs, and a whole bunch of Cayotes. Never lost anything I shot with it either. Today I often forget about those days and advise people to get bigger guns to use for such things as Moose, or Wolves. But the main question is can you hit with it? That is what is important.

Yes I have my own openion, but I allways tend to be overgunned so to speak. One time I lost an animal, a Big Moose, wolves got to him later that week. I felt so bad, I never intend to let that happen again. I also shoot at longer ranges than most people, and I need the heavier bullets to prevent wind drift, and to have enough energy left to do the job.

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #14 on:** January 03, 2006, 04:00:50 PM »

Now about a stainless NEF single shot in .243. The boys would grow into it for caribou (I have taken 3 with one). Latter on you could upgrade the barrel to 30/06 or something more powerful for them.

cattail · « **Reply #15 on:** January 04, 2006, 01:18:14 PM »

Dand I can't agree more with what sourdough says about a gun you are flat comfy shooting. Something that comes up automatically and you just know where it is going to shoot. The big thing there is that takes alot of shooting the same gun for along time and I have just a few of the many I own that fall into that catagory. That being said I carry a 223 for wolves and run alot of the same country you do, however it is one of those few guns for me it is near 20 yrs old and I can't begin to say how many critters I've killed or number of rounds Ive shot thru it. It is nothing special an Interarms MarkX but I love it and it wil never leave me till I'm dead. Now I bought that gun befor the wolf explosion out this way and if I had the money and desire for just a wolf gun, I would do what alot of others are doing around here and go with the 243 as you or the boys can take caribou with proper practice and shot palcement. And for reference I know a guy who has taken over 20 wolves with his. Also if you need ammo in a hurry it is generally easy to get even here in Dillingham.

Del · « **Reply #16 on:** January 22, 2006, 10:57:45 AM »

How about the Ruger Compact, in .243, stainless, grey laminated stock, short 16" barrel, w/a 3X9 Leupold Compact scope(they call it Ultralight now).

Light, short, very handy, stainless, repeater, accurate, middle of the road affordability.

I have a rifle as described above, purchased for coyotes, wolf, deer, etc. It will shoot 1 inch 5 shot groups @ 100 yards, w/factory Federal ammo loaded w/ 100 grn Partitions. I plan to use that one load and get to know it well, then use it for everything I plan on hunting w/it.

That's my recommendation to you!
Good luck getting a number of wolves!!
Del

Don Fischer · « **Reply #17 on:** January 23, 2006, 11:58:32 AM »

Well there is only one perfect answer and I have it. One of each!

Dand · « **Reply #18 on:** January 31, 2006, 09:15:21 PM »

Thanks for more suggestions. That short Ruger sounds interesting. I had a short visit to Anchorage but didn't see one of those. I did look at an ultralight Weatherby - they do seem very nice but a bit long. Even looked at a light 308 Kimber and was surprised it was less expensive than the Weatherby by $200! Nice light gun but the bolt almost looks like a toy its so small in diameter. I think I liked the stock fit on the Wby better.

I have a couple friends who quit using 243s on caribou after some marginal to poor performance. So I keep thinking something a bit heavier (257-308) might be more versatile for this area. But likely they weren't using some of the premium ammo available these days.

Lately I haven't even seen anything I could shoot with a .22 LR let alone a bigger gun so this seems even more like a pipe dream. I suppose I'll be out there one day and really regret not having any rifle. Almost took my 223 yesterday but the sled was pretty heavy so I didn't.

I better load some 63 gr Sierras for the 223 until I come up with a better gun. They shoot pretty well in my #1.

cattail · « **Reply #19 on:** February 01, 2006, 08:57:07 AM »

Dand you can pick up those compact rugers at Fred Meyers in Anchorage they have them all the time. MountainView SPorts also seems to have them on a regular basis. Keep that 223 handy I picked up a nice wolf last week in a snare but am working quite a ways out on a 50 mile loop across the Wood River. And have had a couple trashing fox sets on this side so they are around

Sourdough · « **Reply #20 on:** February 02, 2006, 09:20:04 AM »

Dand: Reread you original post, got to thinking. You want a gun that's lightweight, easy to carry, yet will kill a wolf. I just happened to go into my garage and realised the gun I carry on the handlebars of my Ski-Doo Tundra. You know the Tundra is extreamely narrow, therefore the gun on the handlebars has to be short. T/C Contender Carbine, in .223. It's so small I carry it around in an arrow case. Arrow case works just like a gun case, got plenty of room for the carbine and several boxes of ammo. .223 will take out a wolf out to 200 yards, if you do your part.

Dand · « **Reply #21 on:** February 03, 2006, 10:00:48 PM »

Well, I have to thank you Sourdough for another suggestion worth considering. A contender carbine is another idea that hadn't occurred to me. The size sounds really good. I'll take a look on their website and see what they have. I've never messed with contenders and don't know much about them. They sure have a following on GB.

I wonder how hard are they to break open? Seems like I saw a guy shoot on once and the break action sure seemed strange to me.

Now I have to head over to the reloading forum. I didn't realize its been 10 years since I reloaded for the .223. Most of my old loads for the 60-63 gr bullets are 1-2 gr past max on my current crop of load manuals! I see they were fine by some older Hornady manuals and other sources.

Little moving on the tundra today except a few moose and squirrels. First its been -20 then up to nearly +20 snow and high winds expected. Looks like the animals are staying hunkered down for now. Looks like that cold weather had the moose busy feeding their boilers. They have been real busy the last few days.

kciH · « **Reply #22 on:** February 16, 2006, 07:51:13 PM »

TC has some new "Pro Hunter" barrels out for their Encore single shot rifles. They are 28" fluted stainless barrels, no big premium in price, about $265 I think. 28" barrel + 25-06 should be able to reach out there pretty good with enough bullet weight to help negate the wind concerns somewhat.

kciH · « **Reply #23 on:** February 16, 2006, 07:53:27 PM »

TC has some new "Pro Hunter" barrels out for their Encore single shot rifles. They are 28" fluted stainless barrels, no big premium in price, about $265 I think. 28" barrel + 25-06 should be able to reach out there pretty good with enough bullet weight to help negate the wind concerns somewhat.

Dand · « **Reply #24 on:** February 17, 2006, 03:25:06 PM »

I just read about the TC Encore Pro in my latest Rifle Magazine issue. I like that its available in stainless and it appears pretty accurate. Sounds like you can get it chambered in almost anything.

Sadly, lately I haven't seen anything but squirrel tracks and a few moose tracks. With this wet gunk weather the trails in our area really went to pot. My big hopes of finding a canine have been fading but you never know. I've been trying to tempt fate by only packing a .22 pistol. Seems like going unprepared is a great way to really see something.

Oh well. Thanks for more info.

Old Moss · « **Reply #25 on:** February 19, 2006, 08:41:52 AM »

Dand, will, folks have come up with some pretty close ideas (all good ones), but they missed the best choice yet for your specifications. Here we go:
1. TC encore pistol (yes pistol, 14-15" Bbl) in 243win, (or any good 6mm), top with Burris pistol scope 2x7. When loaded - about 5 pounds; it's short, light, rugged, and accurate to 300yards.
1. What I carry is a Savage striker SS, 243 win, 4x burris scope, and it's an honest shooter too; 3/4" groups with 70-75gr bullets at 150yards. 1/2" at 100yds. These hand rifles can't be beat for compact power & accuracy
3. Finally, if hand cannons are not in your plan go with Handi rifle "ultra in 25-06 or 243win.

Now please do not rule out the 22-250s & 220swifts for wolfs they will absolutly get the job done. If you want bear coverage and something to take an occasional wolf look at the new 460 S&W in at least a 8" revolver I have heard some impresive ballistics on this round, it can be scoped or open sighted, but it will leave big holes going out of any game animals.

One thing I have learned in my short few years in Alaska is wolf sightings are rare unless you put a lot of work into hunting them, even when you see a lot of sign. Good luck and Safe hunting. Old Moss

Dand · « **Reply #26 on:** February 21, 2006, 10:10:18 PM »

Yes Moss, a hand rifle is another option I haven't even thought of. As poor as I shoot with a rifle at 300, I doubt I'd fare well with the smaller gun. But I'll keep it in mind if I see one while cruising shops or the online auctions.

You are right about seeing wolves. I finally saw my first 2 a couple years ago about a mile away on a lake beach. I've had them howling around me on two sides within about 400 yards and I've had them walk on my tracks within hours of when I made them but after 51 yrs of life I've only seen 4. 2 were from a plane last spring and the other 2 in 2004.

I've blundered into 3 or 4 coyotes and a few foxes. The tracks I was seeing early this fall were really getting my hopes up but we have just enough snow now that the snogos have everything chased off for miles - or at least a lot more wary. I'll try again tomorrow. Might be a day to take a rifle.

Thanks guys.

rob997 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 10, 2006, 08:59:55 PM »

Shot my last wolf with 22-250, 319 yards. No problem. I also have BM Varminter, 223. I am going to buy Kimber 84M Montana, 243. I think this will be an ideal wolf gun as well as sheep, caribou, and deer. Aim small miss small. Rob

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #28 on:** March 15, 2006, 08:35:42 AM »

You might want to stay away from the NEF in .243. Everything I have read on various sites is negative about them as far as accuracy goes. That only goes for the .243. Under the circumstances I would go with one of the .30 calibers (.308 or .30-06), the .25-06 or the 7mm-08. Maybe the 270. The little HandiRifle will do its part if you do yours, and is light, small and handy to carry.

-Winter Hawk-

yukonjim · « **Reply #29 on:** March 17, 2006, 05:47:36 AM »

As far as the accuracy of a .243 NEF Handi, I guess it depends on the rifle and the ammunition it likes. I have a .243 Handi that will put 5 shots at 100 yards that can be covered with a quarter using 100 grain PMP soft points. Well that's sub MOA in most everyones book. PMP is made in South Africa. Great ammo.

If you already have a 30-30 you might want to consider trying some of the Hornaday Leverevolution ammo. 160 grain spirepoint bullets that can be loaded in a lever action. They have a pliable polymer tip. 2300fps at the muzzle with a .330 ballistic coefficient. I've used them in a 20 inch barrel Marlin 336 lever gun with super accuracy results. 3.5 inches high at 100yards and dead on at 200 yards (when sighted in for 200 yard zero). If they are good enough for deer they will probably be good enough for wolf. I plan on using them in my lever gun this coming fall hunting season for both mulies and elk. Here is the link from a Guns and Ammo article on them.

http://hornady.primediaoutdoors.com/HDstory1.html

yukonjim