Thinking about buying a ML...

[MI.sabot]

For starters....I've never owned or shot a ML.  But I'm considering the purchase of one to extend the hunting season a little longer here in Michigan.
 
Don't know the first thing about them.  So please bear with me and I would really appreciate to hear your comments and fill me in with whatever bits of info I should consider and need to know.
 
I recently ran across some posts regarding the NEF sidekick and huntsman ML's.  Up until now, all I've heard talk about is the T/C Omega.
 
First, what's the difference between the Sidekick and Huntsman?  Is one better than the other? Why?
 
How do these compare to the Omega?  
 
I personally like the wood/blued versions of the NEF ML's.  What price range do these run in?  I believe the Omega is around $399.
 
There seems to be a difference in regards to how the primers are held in place between the NEF and T/C.  What's the advantages/disadvantages of each?
 
What's the .25acp references I've seen.  Is this something worth doing?
 
I'm really concerned with ease of use and ease in cleaning.  I'm the kind if something can go wrong it will.  The simpler the better.  How do these models compare in this regard?
 
Is scoping a ML something to consider now or wait until I get comfortable with using it?  What type or range are these accurate to just using the fiber optic sights?  (I know this is a subjective question.)
 
I purchased a couple NEF Ultra Slug Hunters this year and and have to say that they're the best value slug gun out there.  Price and performance...what more could you ask for.  I'm hoping to hear that their ML are just as impressive.
 
Anyways, whatever you guys can pass along I'd love to hear it.  Thanks!

[DickG]

I will attempt to answer as many of your specific questions as I can. I own a Sidekick,  have no experience with the Omega
 
The Huntsman is a legally a firearm. NEF sells additional barrels that will fit it.
 
 If you own a NEF Ultra Slug Hunter, you can purchase the blue Muzzleloader barrel for $79.00, by sending the receiver to NEF for fitting.
 
The Sidekick is not considered a firearm and additional barrels are not available. There is something different about the receiver(shorter?).
 
Other than that the Sidekick and Huntsman are essentially the same.
 
Walmart has both the Sidekick and Huntsman (blue/wood) for $142.00. Both are special order, but are normally available in one week. I have seen the blue/wood for $142.00 to $175.00.
 
Some people like the orange primer carrier some don't. I preload several primer carriers before hunting. The are easy to handle when your hands are cold. It is also easy to see if the gun has a primer loaded. I like the primer carrier.
 
There are a number of people that like the .25 acp breech plug. I have never used one, but there is lots of discussion about it. My guess is there are a lot more people using the orange primer carrier and 209 primers than using the .25acp. It might be worth it, but $60.00 is a lot to just try it.
 
If you only use the Sidekick/Huntsman for deer hunting in the ML season only, it is probably not worth it.
 
Since you already own some NEF products, cleaning the Huntsman/Sidekick is about the same. The only difference is unscrewing and cleaning the breech plug.  
 
I have never fired my Sidekick w/o a scope.  Generally, my limit with the stock sights would be approx. 100 yds, that has as much to do with my eyes as the sights..  There are some people that have good success with  Williams peep sights.  If you are using the Ultra Slug Hunter, I assume it has a scope. The same scope would be fine for the ML.
 
The ramrod gets a lot of complaints. I use a range rod at the range and my first load when hunting. When hunting, I have found the stock ran rod ( if used as NEF suggests) to work fine. It does have 8-32 threads so most alternate jags won't fit. The solution is to buy an 8-32 to 10-32 adapter. Traditions has one for less than $2.00. It works fine for me.
 
If you like your other NEF guns you will like the Huntsman/Sidekick and if the ML barrel fits your Ultra Slug Hunter, $79.00 is hard to beat.
 
I hope this helps on the NEF side of the equation.
 
Dick

[mangulator]

I think DickG cover it very good. I feel the Huntsman/Sidekick muzzleloaders are the most accurate on the market and I am pleased with mine.

[jbtazgrabber]

THE HUNTSMAN is as good as they come....if you order a barrel from nef they send you a new forearm and a ramrod nnd the primer holders.this is a lot cheaper than 3$$$...the 25 acp converson is 4 a lighter ignition.....i want all the lgnition i can get whene is wet or cold....ramrod does have its faults but i finaaly broke my first one after 12 years.....primer carrers are great can put on with gloves in cold and in a hurry ...try putting in a litttle bittty primer in that litttle bitty hole with gloves on and cold.oh make sure the gloves are dry..wouldnt want to get that primer wet....the sight are plastic....ok ...but remington sights fits the same holes so i no longer have plastic sights... :grin: ..try yhe huntsman,if you dont like it give me a pm, and ill give ya your money back 4 the barrel....im that sure you will like it...jb

[MI.sabot]

Thanks for the replies so far.  Hope to hear many more.

I called H&R about the ML barrel replacement.

Unfortunately, my 12 gauge USH is on a 10 gauge frame and won't allow for the conversion.

On the other hand, my son has the 20 ga youth model USH.  He'll be outgrowing it a year or so, so the exchange then might be a possibility.  But as I would still need to upgrade the stock to an adult size in addition to the cost of the barrel conversion it just might make more sense to buy a new huntsman/sidekick.

Anyways, keep those comments coming.  I really appreciate and respect your opinions.

[tscott]

Years ago as a deer hunter I needed to get into Muzzleloading, as the season was before rifle, and during the peak rut!
I asked a gunshop owner, and he gave me good advice. "Buy the cheapest inline you can find, and just play around with it". I bought a CVA from Midway for $69, and a huntsman barrel for my sb2 frame! I thought muzzleloading was primative, somwhere between bow and gun....
Boy was I wrong! I am a 1 shot hunter, and muzzleloading is 1 shot rifle hunting, with comparable accuracy, at my distances (within 100yds)!
I have shot nice bucks with each. The Huntsman groups better. Both are way more accurate than I expected. I just read the instructions, and went to the range, like I knew what I was doing. Piece of cake!!!
I settled on 90gr. 777, and 295gr Powerbelt... I cruise the 3 Walmarts in the area after CHRISTmas, and pick up Powerbelts for $5 a pack, and 777 for $5
a pound...... We're not talkin' rocket science here, especially for deer accuracy!!!!   for me = 3" circle at 75 yards

[slayer]

I love my Sidekick .I use 90 gr of Goex FFG behind a 245 gr Buffalo Bullet Ball-Et, a super shooter. Hate the breechplug, it`s all locked up, gonna leave it that way and just clean it like a traditional muzzleloader. Can`t go wrong with a Sidekick for the money. I also use the Veriflame system that let`s you use Small Pistol or Small Rifle primers, cheaper and less dirty. The williams Fire Sights are awsome in low light!! Jack.

[TOMMYY01]

Slayer, if you do happen to free the breech plug, put some good non-petroleum grease on it and screw it back in . Don't try to tighten it! I;ve shot my sidekick a lot and have had no problem getting the breech plug out to clean. Quick I think, said just to finger tight the plug! Hey, it's worked for me. :wink:
                                                     tommy

[Moonlitin]

I believe the Omega is around $399.

Hi MI.sabot.  I see that you are also from Michigan.  I've been thinking about a ML too, and I have my choice narrowed down to a T/C Omega or an NEF Sidekick.  I've got a bunch of NEF shotguns and rifles and I really like them.  I've heard great things about the Sidekick (except for the ram rod and breech plug) so I was planning on getting one because they are about half the price of a T/C.

This weekend I saw a T/C Omega Z5 at an MC Sporting Goods for $259.  Now I'm thinking about the T/C again.  For more information on the Omega Z5 you can go to:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/thompson_omega_Z-5.htm

I really don't think you could go wrong with either one.

Moonlitin

[MI.sabot]

Thanks again for all the replies.  Really appreciate it and hope to hear some more.

From what you all have said and from what I've read elsewhere, the two main complaints of the Sidekick are the ramrod and breech plug.  What also seems to be consistent is that the Sidekick is an accurate shooting, reasonably priced M/L.

My personal situation is this:

1.) My busiest time of the year at work is September thru December.  But October 1 - November 30 you'll find me every weekend up in Michigan's Thumb chasing whitetails.  Needless to say, December is time to play some serious catch up to meet my annual December 31st deadline.  Throw in the holidays and even if I had a ML this year, I honestly would not have had the time to make it out for Michigan's M/L season which is in mid-December.

2.) My son has now reached legal hunting age, which also means that if we are both successful by November 30th, two deer is as much venison that we can realistically freeze or consume in any given year.

That being the case, I'm leaning more toward the Sidekick vs the Omega for the following reasons:

I can't see making an investment of $400 vs $160 for something that I might not even use in any given year.  I also prefer the wood/blue look of the Sidekick to the synthetic/laminate Omega.  Just looks a bit more traditional to me.  I really don't plan on mounting a scope as my normal shooting range is normally 50-75 yds. Likewise, muzzleloading without a scope also seems more traditional to me.  But I know myself well enough that if I got the Omega I'd want to run out and buy a $200 scope and have this high tech looking, 150 yd. capable muzzleloading machine.  Now we're talking much more money for something I may not use.

Anyways, if money were no object, is it worth spending a couple hundred dollars more for an Omega and not have to deal with the Sidekick's ramrod / breech plug problems?  Are they that big of a deal or just minor inconveniences?

[JRSR126]

MI.sabot

I consider them minor inconvenience. At the range, I use a Knight range rod and loosen and tighten the breechplug after every shot with my hand. With Pyrodex, I could do it every 3 shots but with Triple 7, I need to do it every shot. You can weld or JB weld a nut on the breech plug as others have done but I am getting by without it. I just use CVA and Knight breechplug grease but I heard here that if you used teflon tape with a high temp grease, the plug don't stick as bad. Again, I am getting by with just the grease. I use the gun's ramrod when I hunt but I shoot flat pointed conicals and they load as easy as Powerbelts. You can threaded adapters that convert  the Huntsman thread (8/32 I think) to 10/32 and use common tools avaible for the Knight and TC guns such as a bullet puller or a hollow tip to load pointed and polymer tip bullets. When I go hunting, I carry some of those tools in my pocket.

One problem I am having is my ramrod falls out all the time. I now use a 50 cal wadding and just wedge it in the forearm and rod and that seems to work.

My gun is the 24" barrel Huntsman and I just love it. Handles great and is very light carrying in the woods and small getting thru the brush. Can only go up to 100 grains of powder but I am shooting 60-80 grains of of 777 now and happy with performance.  The Sidekick and the new Huntsman I think are 26" barrels now which allows you to go up to 150 grains of powder. They also have the steel sights while mine are plastic.
These guns are very simple, functional and accurate. When I bought the Huntsman as my first muzzleloader, I was thinking if I really liked the sport I would buy a more expensive muzzleloader later on (Knight Elite, TC Omega or TC Encore), If I hated it, I was only out $140 plus on the Huntsman, I could swap a barrel for a tracker slug gun. But now, I doubt I will buy another muzzleloader. I like what I got.  Doubt I will even scope it, I am hunting exclusively with it even during firearm season. Now my deer hunting skills and effort I put forth during the hunt, now that is a woeful story. But love those midmorning naps at camp.

My long winded 2 cents worth.

[tscott]

Ditto the above comments. Here's what I'm doing in the off season. I am a hunter., and a range guy to sight in and store for hunting season.
In the off season, I will come across a used NEF 20 ga. at a gun shop (modified). 60 bucks or so. I will send in the receiver for a Huntsman. I'll mount a $50 scope on it and pull the sights, gluing them on the modified barrel.
I have great success with this setup, and the sighted modified barrel is a terrific 50 yd. slug gun with the cheap foster type slugs.
I got Grandsons coming along.
I would be stunned if any muzzleloader could better my 50 yard Huntsman clover leaf!!!

[Moonlitin]

tscott, I like the idea of a slug gun & muzzle loader combo too.  But, by the time you pay for the used Pardner, the Huntsman barrel, fitting, and shipping charges, you have not really saved much.  Don't take this the wrong way, I just wanted to let MI.sabot know about the combos in case he does not want to do any of the work himself.  Some guys enjoy that kind of work, others do not.

Used Pardner = $60
Huntsman barrel = $79
Fitting charge (NEF) = $15
Shipping (from NEF) = $10
Shipping (to NEF) = $10
Total cost = $174

For about 5 bucks more you could purchase a brand new Huntsman Combo with a modified choke barrel from Wal Mart.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3138425

For about 20 bucks more you could purchase a brand new Huntsman Combo with a rifled Tracker II barrel from Wal Mart.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3138426

[tscott]

I wouldn't take it the wrong way. I don't even know you , and you make a very good point. I just like messin' around with used gun stuff. The NEF
platform allows me this. It's as simple as I don't want to pay new for stuff I frequently have to screw with. (rifle barrels)! Others have clearly stated on this. I stay on this site for 1 reason. Clean information, devoid of personal attack and monitored... I do enjoy good natured jokes as well.
Thanks, Scotty