Antler Restriction Frustration

[Craig M. Bellis]

I kind of missed the old days on the season opener. I hunt in southwest Pa where we have a 4 points to a side minimum. I'm not opposed to the rule because we are beginning to see some big buck -- at least while scouting. On opening day, I had 5 buck within 35 yards of my treestand -- simultaneously! They all stopped and hung around except the biggest one who passed by rather quickly. I had time to either count points or shoot! My brother was scoping a huge racked deer that he could not put brow tines on. It wandered deeper into the brush before he could get a proper count. On the first Saturday a different 6 point walked within 10 yards of my stand! So far I've personally seen 9 different buck -- more buck than doe! Fortunately, I love to be in the woods as much as I love to take game but I must confess that I got a bit frustrated on the first day. Anybody else have that problem?

[slayer]

I see your point man. I also live in W.Pa. and see many Buck, but the biggest has been a 6 pointer. I know their are bigger, but the way I see it, they will continue to get larger with each passing year, barring they live that long, with all of the cars and all, but alot will survive. If we are patient, we should see some nice deer in the next few years :grin: I hunt alot of the seasons, so it isn`t all that frustrating for me and I love just as much being in the woods and the whole experience .I got a Doe with my Muzzleloader in Oct. and a Gobbler i nthe last half hour of the last day of fall Turkey, so I am very happy so far this season, plus alot of big fox squrrels also and a few rabbits. Going out with my Flintlock after Christmas. It`s all good Jack.

[superjay01]

I hate it! I haven't been able to kill a buck since that stupid law has gone into effect. I hunt in the woods mostly where you get no more than a 100 yard shot, and most of the time the deer are running so you don't have time to count the horns.  I hope people are getting bigger bucks because I'm not getting any.

[K.K]

I feel your pain, boys.  I buy a 100 dollar out of state tage every year to hunt at my in-laws in Bulter/Alleghany county border.  This past year, do you think I ever saw a doe?  NO!  I had to let 15 bucks walk.  I only wanted to fill a doe tag and possibly see a nice buck.  All were fork horns, or scrub bucks.  I'd like to see some bigger bucks, as you all would.  But it is frustrating to let all these fine meat deer pass when you only have a few days to hunt.  I mean, I did not see one doe!  It might be a fluke, but perhaps the doe harvest has gone overboard. What do you guys think?

K.K

[Doublejake]

I THINK YOU MIGHT WANT TO HUNT VERMONT, I BET YOU WOULD CHANGE YOUR TUNE. I ONLY SAW THREE SPIKES FROM MY STAND MANY DOE BUT I ALSO HUNT HARD EVERY SEASON, BOW, RIFLE, MUZZLE. I HAVE BEEN TO PA THREE TIMES NOW FOR BOWHUNTING, IF I COULD IT WOULD BE EVERY YEAR. A HUNTER FORGETS VT ONCE HE'S HUNTED PA. VT HAD A NEW RULE THIS PAST SEASON COPYING PA ONLY WITH LESS ANTLER RESTRICTIONS TWO POINTS ON ONE SIDE. SUCK IT UP BOYS. YOUR ACTUALLY IN THE GOOD TIMES.

[grousehunter]

Hey guys, not to spoil your complaints! But I hunt DOE on a 1,000 acre farm and am not permotted to kill anything with horns (even buttons) we see 8/10 points with 16/18 inch spreads all the time! (depressing) YES! but they started they're own restrictions 25 yrs ago and it is paying off for them!!!!!!!!! They now say 8 pt with 16 inch spread is min. on the farm! It us working for them in western PA. and it will work for all of PA. If only we give it a CHANCE!!!!!!!!!

[oneshotonekill]

we see 8/10 points with 16/18 inch spreads all the time! (depressing) YES! but they started they're own restrictions 25 yrs ago and it is paying off for them!!!!!!!!! They now say 8 pt with 16 inch spread is min. on the farm! It us working for them in western PA. and it will work for all of PA. If only we give it a CHANCE!!!!!!!!!

Grousehunter:

One difference between the farm you are hunting and PA is that your restrictions include spread and point count and PA is point count only.  A point restriction helps to increase age structure and with increased doe harvest there is a better buck:doe ratio but there is a negative side.  Many of the bucks harvested that meet the point restrictions are 1.5 or 2.5 years old.  They just happen to be the deer in the gene pool that have the most genetic potential to produce branched antlers.  Since they are not fully mature and probably have not done much breeding we are eliminating some of the best genetics (in regard to antlers) from the population.  Although spread does not always gaurantee a mature deer there is a much better chance of a deer with a 16 inch minimun spread being mature (or at least being old enough to have passed on his genetics).  Spread is often difficult to judge in the field and I don't think a state would try to implement spread restrictions but comparing the farm with spread restrictions to PA's point restrictions is not very accurate.

[Star1pup]

I hunt in 2F and we have been seeing either the same buck or one of his offspring for the last couple of years.  He has a BIG rack, but he's a fork horn.  At least no one has been able to grow another point on him.  I have talked to more than one hunter who has seen him or one like him.  I'm no expert, but I wonder if it would be a good idea to have this guy out of the gene pool.  It can't happen now, but he would have been venison a few years ago.

I bought my license agin this year, but unless I at least see a few deer, I'llo stay in Ohio next year.  There is an 8-point and a 10-point eating my apple tree so why go to PA?

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

 :'(This subject is interesting to me 'cause I still hunt Pa. due to family living in the area. Deer season there used to be fun. I loved it. Now it is an absolute rat race. :'(I don't think the average hunter in Pa. thinks enough about what the Game Comm. has pulled. Those crooks have sold our deer herd out to the insurance companies. >:(Those bums were complaining about paying deer damage. Their idea is to only collect $ and never pay out a cent. >:(I have never known a poor insurance man yet. We need to waken up. Doe season in buck season only makes bucks harder to get, by now we should have some fine bucks. Not a chance. 8)In some areas the farmers are killing them at night under the guise of crop damage. Only they hunt everywhere not just their farms. >:(Try to get a game warden to do something ::)Fat chance. In the west the game and fish fight points restrictions, because this puts the pressure on old mature bucks that should be the ones to breed the does.  ;)I am fortunate to have hunted in many states and canada. I can tell you Pa. does a horrible job with the game. Look at phesants. The cut back on the #'s of birds produced due to buget problems. Why not fire some of the dead beats in the department. >:(Pa. hunters need to be screaming for action to restore the deer numbers, put doe season after buck, and get rid of the dead weight in the department.

[Davemuzz]

I dunno....I hunt in SW PA, an I still have mixed feelings about this point count business. I've been scouting for 3 weeks now, and the area that I hunt I have seen 7 buck. On legal, and one 6 point. There are 2 spike's...one of which "bends his ears down" and wraps around. There is also a 3 point that does the same thing. Bends his ears down and wraps around. But, just a "Y" on the right. This is the second year in a row that I have seen these buck.

There is one additional "punney" spike and 2 four points. So, if you want to see buck....hunt this deer wood and you will see buck. Just don't bring a gun (or right now don't bring your bow) 'cause there is only one shooter that I see. And this is what? Year # 4 or #5? I forget. But I think the "Ault" vision was after 5 years we would see bunches of large rack buck out there.

Well....we have seen some large rack buck....but bunches are not the reality. I am leaning towards the "gean pool" theory.

We are fast approaching the touted time line that was promised of "many big bucks running thru our woods." Well, Gary Ault is out west somewhere enjoying his Pa pension. We are here sitting in tree stands looking at spikes.

Doe permits were issued and does were taken. The only people who know if deer\car accidents are down are the insurance companies. And do you think they are releasing the statistics? If so, I havn't seen them yet.

But I have seen a lot of spikes and I have seen less doe. (Is it possible to see less of something that's not there?)

Just my thoughts.

Dave