Author Topic: Remington is really getting bad, off center chamber. (Read 3662 times)

1longshot · « **on:** December 05, 2005, 07:49:05 PM »

I finally recieved my special order Remington 700 LSS in .243 winchester. I took the gun apart, and began to gouge out the stock to prepare for bedding the action.

I want you all to know I have been waiting to order this rifle for a few years.

Anyway, the stock is gouged out and ready for bedding. I am thinking to myself I have a great piece of equipment here. It is a beutiful rifle really.

So I clean up the metal for a closer inspection and upon looking down the chamber I notice the lip where the bullet meets the rifling is high on one side and non existent on the other. I don't know what to do. I have had so many bad experiences with Remington I guess I should have learned my lesson. I hesitate to send it back to them for fear they will say it shoots within specs. What do you think I should do?

I am so pissed right now.

TNrifleman · « **Reply #1 on:** December 06, 2005, 12:36:51 AM »

I'd call Remington today. If there is a problem, they will make it right.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #2 on:** December 06, 2005, 12:54:43 AM »

Have you shot the gun yet? I'd run out and put a few rounds through it and see how it shoots before I'd call and complain......There a many out there who love their remingtons........Then there are those who think you can get a better rifle for less money........

Nobade · « **Reply #3 on:** December 06, 2005, 02:21:35 AM »

That comes from using an undersize pilot on the reamer. It is actually uncommon to see a factory chamber that is on center, maybe one in 100 are. If it won't shoot it's sometimes possible to gently center the throat by using a reamer with a tight fitting pilot and hand turning it (barrel needs to be pulled) or set it back and recut the chamber. I get to do a few of these every week, and usually it's not too tough to help them quite a bit. But yeah, shoot it first and see what happens. If it's not up to what you want then you can deal with it then.

jro45 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 06, 2005, 02:38:58 AM »

1longshot, I'd shoot it and see how it groups.If it isn't what I want. I'd call Rem. and tell them. Then you could go from there.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #5 on:** December 06, 2005, 04:10:43 AM »

"There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it."

Never a truer word said! Might I carry this a bit farther by one of my favorites: "Never put off until tomorrow what you can wait and do the day after."

You say you do several of these a week? Would you tell me a litte bit more maybe about the cost, and the benefits? What are the acceptable tolerances, and how far out does the chamber need to be to see a substantial benefit?

When I was younger I used to plaster cast the chamber...for a lot of different reasons.......now, if the gun don't shoot I usually get rid of it and just go buy a Savage!

cal sibley · « **Reply #6 on:** December 10, 2005, 01:15:54 PM »

Hello 1longshot,

I share your feelings. That may well be what's wrong with mine. I have a Remington 700BDL in .25-06. I waited a long time to afford this rifle and was thrilled at finally getting one. I have a lot of experience in load development and bench shooting, and simply can't get the rifle to group under an inch (5 at 100yds.). If I send it back they'll only say it meets their accuracy specifications. I've tried nearly every bullet made for the .25-06 and a host of different powders. Before ever taking this rifle to the range I had the action glass bedded, barrel floated and trigger lightened, an extra $250. on what is no longer an inexpensive rifle. I expect to incur these after market costs as I've done this with the two preceding Remingtons, but on those rifles at least it worked. On this one nothing seems to work. I have several Remingtons from the '70s and '80s that shoot very well, about .5", but what they're putting out today amounts to little more than junk. I'll accept that this rifle is a loser, but it definitely will be my last one. We just don't need this degree of aggravation. Remington seems obsessed with their "bottom profit line," but the bottom line doesn't mean much when your regular customers simply write you off and stop buying your products. They'll tumble shortly. There's little doubt in my mind. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

cal sibley · « **Reply #7 on:** December 10, 2005, 01:17:24 PM »

Hello 1longshot,

I share your feelings. That may well be what's wrong with mine. I have a Remington 700BDL in .25-06. I waited a long time to afford this rifle and was thrilled at finally getting one. I have a lot of experience in load development and bench shooting, and simply can't get the rifle to group under an inch (5 at 100yds.). If I send it back they'll only say it meets their accuracy specifications. I've tried nearly every bullet made for the .25-06 and a host of different powders. Before ever taking this rifle to the range I had the action glass bedded, barrel floated and trigger lightened, an extra $250. on what is no longer an inexpensive rifle. I expect to incur these after market costs as I've done this with the two preceding Remingtons, but on those rifles at least it worked. On this one nothing seems to work. I have several Remingtons from the '70s and '80s that shoot very well, about .5", but what they're putting out today amounts to little more than junk. I'll accept that this rifle is a loser, but it definitely will be my last one. We just don't need this degree of aggravation. Remington seems obsessed with their "bottom profit line," but the bottom line doesn't mean much when your regular customers simply write you off and stop buying your products. They'll tumble shortly. There's little doubt in my mind. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

wild willy · « **Reply #8 on:** December 10, 2005, 02:17:27 PM »

I have a left hand 700 BDL thats the same way sent it back they said nothing wrong with it Last remington rifle I bought

jro45 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 11, 2005, 03:14:54 AM »

I own alot of Rems. all BDL models the only problem I had was the action had a bind on it . Had to bed the action to get the bind out of it. But that was all in the way the stock was cut. Now she shoots all rounds into one bullet hole.

1longshot · « **Reply #10 on:** December 11, 2005, 07:27:14 PM »

Well I appreciate your comments everyone! I, however, did not wait for them and took action into my own hands. It will probably not suprise those who have experienced Remington's customer service that I did not receive cooperation from Remington when I called the service center.

I told them of my problem and was told to send the gun in for an inspection to see if it met their tolerances. This is not the first time I have received this response. As I said before I should have learned the first time, or the second. With this response I emphasized that I would only accept the barrel be replaced under warranty. The woman repeated the same thing. Enfuriated, I asked that she forget the conversation and asked her how much it would be to just replace the barrel with a new one. She told me that it would be $250.00 for a new barrel, but that the finely bead blasted stainless barrel I wanted replaced would not be in production for "a long time". At this I simply told her that I would not be buying any new Remingtons, that I would relay her report to my customers who I sell many Remingtons to at a very large retailer where I sell guns, (I won't name that here for fear someone at Remington might call my boss) Further more I told her I would be sending my barrel to Hart to have it done right. I also told her that I would display my Remington barrel to anyone who wanted to see it for proof of sloppyness after I got it back. I am tired of Remingtons BS. I have been a loyal customer for a long time and I have only recieved disrespectful treatment that does not show very good customer respect. Why??? My older ones are so nice. They are screwing up a lot lately.

I have a Remington 700 VSSF .308 that the fireing pin hits closer to the edge of the primer than it does to middle. Remington sent back to me with note that said it was, "within specs".

I had another .243 that had a chatter in the barrel, meaning perpendicular tooling grooves running the lenth of the barrel in a spiral to the riflings. I sent this back and it was returned lapped. I wonder how much lapping it took and how much metal was removed? I could feel the groove with a dental pick.

There was also a test target that showed a 3 inch group then a group that was 1 1/2 inches the latter was supposed to be the improvement the lapping made. Hmmmm....hmmmm?

? The gun shot better than 1 1/2 inches before I sent it in...

B.S.. If you ask me. Complete B.S.....

Also recieved a 870 with a choke that was described by Remington as being, "out of concentricity with the bore" The did replace that... I was suprised, but I guess if it takes any work to fix they aren't willing to do it. Sending a shotgun barrel to me didn't take any work at all..

To those of you who have nothing but luck with Remington's. Well, you are pretty lucky or just haven't noticed the problems.

UtahMike · « **Reply #11 on:** December 11, 2005, 09:57:00 PM »

Does anyone know how Remingtons bottom line is. I wonder if these comments and the dozens of others I see on this and other forums are having an impact on their overall performance. Are they close to going under, I thought I herd some rumors that they were being purchased by Beretta? How can the average customer shape Remingtons future... I agree, I've had many 700's, mainly because in the past not many companies catered to the left-hander, that and the fact they were beautiful rifles, that shot very well.

Any thoughts?

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #12 on:** December 12, 2005, 06:14:01 AM »

I've been a Remington 700 basher for quite some time now----this is just another stick to break the camel's back in my mind.

I do give credit where it is due---I have several 870's that have no problems at all-----but the 700's have been horrible for at least a decade now.

Zachary · « **Reply #13 on:** December 12, 2005, 06:37:22 AM »

I don't know what to say. I personally own many remington 700s, from the late 80s to perhaps the early 2000s, and most in about the mid to late 90s. I have never had any problems with them, and they have all been MOA shooters (or better). I will say that their synthetic stocks are junk, but then again so are Winchesters, etc. Then again, junk stock or not, my 700 BDL SS's shoot very well with no problems.

I have heard quite a few members complaining about Remingtons. Yes, I believe that Reminton's quality seems (at least to me) to have gone down in recent years, but then again that is not to say that the quality is bad either. Still, I cannot ignore those members who say that they have had noticeable problems with their 700s, especially of late.

Everyone knows that Beretta bought Sako and Tikka, and what most people may not know is that Beretta also bought Burris optics. As such, although it is probably a rumor, I wouldn't be surprised if Beretta bought Remington. However, I do not think that this is likely because Tikkas rival Remingtons in terms of price, and Tikkas are IMHO a better rifle than Remingtons.

Am I perhpas just lucky that all of my 9 or so Remington 700s have performed flawlessly and are all shooters? Maybe yes, maybe no?

Zachary

tuck2 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 14, 2005, 02:49:13 AM »

I have two 700 Remington rifles. When I called Remington I was told that any work I would do on the rifle would void the warrenty on the part I worked on. The 25-06 700 Rem BDL bolt locking lugs needed to be lappped to get it to shot under one inch 100 Yd groups. Only one lug was contacting the action. Before having the lugs lapped I had adjusted the trigger,glass bedded the action and free floated the barrel. Last year I purchased a 700 Rem LS 221 Rem. The rifle in listed as a special run during 2004 in their web site. The trigger pull was about 6 1/2 Lbs which I adjusted down to 3 Lbs. Only about 1/2 inch of the botom of the action was contacting the wood at the front reciever ring with about 1/16 inch gaps on each side ot the action. I glass bedded the action and free floated the barrel. I used a Sinclair brand Chamber Length Gague Insert to see what max case length would be for the 221 case. Max case length was 1.441 inches less .010 would be 1.431 inches for the trimm length .The Max case length in the reloading books list 1.400 inch as Max for the Rem 221 case. When chambering a round from the magzine the mouth of the case is being deformed on some cases. Looks like I`ll have to get out the Dremmer tool and polish the feed ramp to fix that problem. So by the time I fix the problems the stock, trigger and action, there will be NO Remington warrenty on the 700 Rem LS rifle but now some reloads will group under one inch. The trigger on the 270 Cal Rem Pump Action was so bad I took it to a gunsmith to get it down to 3 Lbs.

tuck2 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 14, 2005, 02:53:18 AM »

I have two 700 Remington rifles. When I called Remington I was told that any work I would do on the rifle would void the warrenty on the part I worked on. The 25-06 700 Rem BDL bolt locking lugs needed to be lappped to get it to shot under one inch 100 Yd groups. Only one lug was contacting the action. Before having the lugs lapped I had adjusted the trigger,glass bedded the action and free floated the barrel. Last year I purchased a 700 Rem LS 221 Rem. The rifle in listed as a special run during 2004 in their web site. The trigger pull was about 6 1/2 Lbs which I adjusted down to 3 Lbs. Only about 1/2 inch of the botom of the action was contacting the wood at the front reciever ring with about 1/16 inch gaps on each side ot the action. I glass bedded the action and free floated the barrel. I used a Sinclair brand Chamber Length Gague Insert to see what max case length would be for the 221 case. Max case length was 1.441 inches less .010 would be 1.431 inches for the trimm length .The Max case length in the reloading books list 1.400 inch as Max for the Rem 221 case. When chambering a round from the magzine the mouth of the case is being deformed on some cases. Looks like I`ll have to get out the Dremmer tool and polish the feed ramp to fix that problem. So by the time I fix the problems the stock, trigger and action, there will be NO Remington warrenty on the 700 Rem LS rifle but now some reloads will group under one inch. The trigger on the 270 Cal Rem Pump Action was so bad I took it to a gunsmith to get it down to 3 Lbs.

rn122 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 23, 2006, 04:34:30 PM »

My sympathies to those parties who have had problems with their rifles. I think all of us, at one time or another, have had issues with our firearms. To sum up, it appears safe to buy an older Rem, say circa 1995 or earlier, but leave the new stuff alone?

sniperVLS · « **Reply #17 on:** August 25, 2006, 06:14:13 AM »

Some people just have bad luck with certain brands. The gentlemen who started the thread admitted hes had terrible luck in the past with them yet he insisted on trying again

Ive never shot or owned a Remmy rifle that wasnt anything short of spectacular, be it from the 70's or present time. And when people say their synthetic stocks are junk, make sure to mention you speak of the cheaper/lower end models such as the SPS/ADL types. You might make people think that the HS stocks on the Senderos, VS, VSF, VS SFs arent great when infact they are superb.

I Only buy heavy barreled Remingtons anymore and out of the box I can hit at nickel at 200 yards with no effort. And thats b4 tuning the trigger myself and working a handload up.

As far as problems go, I will never go near Savage or Mossberg again, while others in my family swear by them and complain about Remington/Winchester and so on. Why someone would STILL mess with a company that repeatedly gave them headaches, I have no idea.

Even the special order ones Ive gotten from Walmart of all places shoot sub close to sub moa out of the box. The VLS in my sig being one of them, and we just sighted in a friends VLS .308 he got from walmart a few months back and it shoots just as good. Not surprised one bit

If you've had problems with a gun maker, for poops sake stay away and dont subject yourself to further problems. Try someone new, lifes way 2 short 2 complain all day about a gun maker.

DWTim · « **Reply #18 on:** August 25, 2006, 02:06:06 PM »

What I'm hearing here is horrible beyond belief. It's one thing to give the customer the run-around for a warranty repair, but when you won't even fix it for money, then you are too stupid to be in business. I'm not sure what is the imagined bogeyman to the senior management at Remington, but when I think about cheap junky rifles, their name does not come to mind. I guess they're out to fix that, though.

Yeah, I know, some folks just have bad luck with certain brands. It's happened to me with Remington's shotguns. But I would think that a commercial company that is producing at relatively low volume could one-up the quality of a mass-produced military rifle. I can shoot a group smaller than 5 inches at 100 yards with the battle sight on my Enfield. If it was me, I'd write a letter to the customer service veep, and tell him that if I wanted that kind of accuracy for hunting, I would have saved some money and bought a 12 ga. shotgun and rifled slugs.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #19 on:** August 26, 2006, 04:32:15 AM »

I guess someone else got my share of bad luck. As I have 700's bought back in the 70's thru this year and haven't had a problem. Yes, they each had to be tweaked a bit to shoot their best but if I were a box a year deer hunter they would have been fine from the get go.
I agree with the poster that said, if you don't like a company, why do you still do business with them. I understand that Kimber makes a nice rifle. And Sako. I don't understand the posters that whine about Remington's lack of quality and then suggest buying a Savage.

DWTim · « **Reply #20 on:** August 26, 2006, 04:38:54 AM »

Quote from: beemanbeme on August 26, 2006, 04:32:15 AM

I don't understand the posters that whine about Remington's lack of quality and then suggest buying a Savage.

I can understand the logic behind that. If buying a Remington at a higher price is going to be such a gamble, then you might as well assume the same amount of risk with a cheaper brand, and save some money.

35Rem · « **Reply #21 on:** August 26, 2006, 05:28:08 AM »

I don't understand how someone can expect Custom rifles staight from the factory for production rifle prices.

It seems like a lot of folks don't even shoot the gun before they start monkeying with it, which does void the warranty. And, yes, 1.5" groups is pretty good at 100 yards. They all aren't going to be exceptional.

Wasn't it Winchester who made the "1 of 1000" rifles way back (think 1873)? Don't think they make em much better today than they did then. Everything used to be hand fitted, not so today.

Remington makes a good product, in my opinion. If you want a better barrel with a perfect chamber, you are going to have to pay extra for it.

(Disclaimer: the following is directed to everyone, not just the original poster)

Shoot the one that is "in spec" from the factory, like they put it together and see what it does from the factory, it may not be that bad. If you need a one hole shooter, a sporter rifle is not going to do that (it is very very rare).

jvs · « **Reply #22 on:** August 26, 2006, 10:11:21 AM »

Quote from: 1longshot on December 05, 2005, 07:49:05 PM

I finally recieved my special order Remington 700 LSS in .243 winchester. I took the gun apart, and began to gouge out the stock to prepare for bedding the action.

I want you all to know I have been waiting to order this rifle for a few years.

Anyway, the stock is gouged out and ready for bedding. I am thinking to myself I have a great piece of equipment here. It is a beutiful rifle really.

So I clean up the metal for a closer inspection and upon looking down the chamber I notice the lip where the bullet meets the rifling is high on one side and non existent on the other. I don't know what to do. I have had so many bad experiences with Remington I guess I should have learned my lesson. I hesitate to send it back to them for fear they will say it shoots within specs. What do you think I should do?

I am so pissed right now.

Check the Muzzle end of the Barrel while you're at it. I have personally seen a brand new Remington that had a bore that was not less than 1/16th of an inch out of center at the Muzzle end. Sometimes I wonder if Remington really does have a Quality Control Dept.