SERIOUS breaking-in ?'s for SERIOUS shooters....

[Five O in ND]

To preface.....
My long awaited Rem 700 VSSF in .22-250 finally got here last week and I had a chance to take it out to the range.  Before I did, I dropped a VariXIII 4.5-14X40mm on top for coyote observing.  I have a question or two concerning my method of breaking in the barrel.  I'd shoot 5 rounds, then run a couple of wet patches then about 4-5 dry ones through the barrel.  I was using Hoppe's #9 copper solvent for this.  I did this for the first 50 rounds put through the barrel.  I haven't shot the gun since.

 Does this sound OK to you EXPERIENCED shooters?

I noticed that for about the first 20 rounds, the groups were at about 2 MOA @ 100 but as I kept shooting, they just kept on shrinking.  By the time I put the last 5 rounds through it (45-50), I could cover many of the groups with a nickel - and that's shooting the "economical" Winchester Valu Pak 45 gr. ammo.  I also noticed that this ammo shot as good as any of the other factory ammo I put through it ranging from 45-55 gr.  

How many more rounds should I put through it and how often should I run patches through in order for it to be considered truly "broken in"?

also...

Does anyone have this rifle and what factory ammo works best for you?

I'm pretty green to this board so I apologize for the blitz of questions.  I've been hunting for quite some time but this truly is the first NEW rifle I've every bought.  My other 20 guns are either aquired from family or bought used.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[RON KONTOWSKY]

Ok your on the right track , there many different schools of thought on proper barrel break-in, keep it up for other 100 rounds but stop with the copper solvent, and go to a standard #9 because believe it or not you can damage your barrel with extend use of copper solvent, it is called scaleing.

Also try different brands of ammo, Rem core-loc is another good choice from there, possibly Hornady, guns are like women no two are alike.

Consider trigger work, floating of the barrel, and bedding, all will help in producing a consisent shooter, giving you years of repeatability.

RON KONTOWSKY
DEANS GUNSHOP II

[Weatherby223]

I too was surprised when using the Value pack of 45gn Wins on my hunting trip the other day. I was also using the Rem Core-Lokt but the Wins out shot them. Sometimes cheaper can be better.

[redial]

Welcome aboard, Five-O

I have a .22-250 VS upon which I tried nearly all the popular rituals. It still has a rough-ish bore and a LOOONNG throat, but it's a shooter!

I broke it in in the same manner you described with some JB scrubbings in between. Rough bores and fast, lightly constucted bullets are a troublesome combination. On top of that, it would walk about a minute and a half to the left as it heated up, and back to zero as it cooled. Not good.

To cure the walking, I had it frozen since that had stabilized many target barrels for me in the past. I tried firelapping by "annointing" the exposed part of bullets in loaded ammo with JB compound. Helped some but molying the bullets proved to be the be-all, end-all in that regard. I useta have to clean every 12 - 15 shots before the moly. I've shot as many as 150 moly bullets without cleaning and noticed no accuracy loss like before.

Sorry I can't comment on factory loads - haven't tried any!

That's a great rig. I'm sure you'll love it!

Redial
10-7

[Advocate]

The rifle "break in" racket is a scam to increase the sales of cleaning components and custom rifle barrels. Custom barrel maker and chamption bench rest shooter Gale McMillan  confirmed this is his web site and says that any such break in has the effect of shortening the accuracy life of the barrel.    Track down Gale McMillian's statement on this.

[razmuz]

Wish I had known about breaking in a rifle when I bought most of mine in the 50's & 60's.  I reloaded and shot a lot of rounds, some so hot I couldn't open the bolt.  I know better now and listen to the experts and go by the reloading books.  These old rifles still shoot great even after many 100's of rounds.  My only regret is that I didn't break these rifles in right.  If I had done so maybe they would last another 50 years.

[chk]

I don't know if what we call breaking in a barrel is really that or just cleaning the copper out of a new barrel more often until the barrel gets shot smooth. I'd hate to have to clean a new stainless barrel after shooting it 20 rounds before it's first good cleaning. :eek:  Me, I'll clean a new barrel after one shot for the first ten shots and two shots for the nest twenty. A competition barrel is normally a lot smoother than a hunting rifle's barrel.

[hardly]

I put up a question this morning regarding the same gun and the same ammo.  I read your post after the fact.  I cleaned after the first 10 rounds and was also getting about 2"groups.  I went back out later that day and forgot the cleaning kit.  Put 30 more through and the grouping stayed the same or worse.  The gun has a total of 40 round fired so far.  The Browning I have was bought used and obviously broken in.  Being new to this sport and this being the first new rifle I have owned, I obviously need to take a new approach to this.  Maybe I shouldn't give up on this gun just yet.

[Five O in ND]

Sorry to hear that about yours.  I haven't had mine out to the range or on a hunt since my first post so not sure what'll happen, but I'm sure I'll be pleased.  It seems really strange that yours won't group better.  I was wondering about mine too but after about 20-30 rounds, it just started shooting better.  I did run those patches through mine about every 5 rounds though through the first 50 but I can't imagine it would make THAT big of a difference, I dunno.  I'm sure one of these guys on this board will have an answer for you though as they've been very responsive and helpful whenever I've posted.  I hope yours works out though because from what I've seen so far with mine, it's a shooter and I'm looking forward to many years with it.  Good luck.

[SeanD]

I read that article too about what Gale McMillan said.  I dont doubt that its true.  I spent a LOT of of time on the net looking up old posts on all the boards, and reading info on all the good barrel makers sites.  I also read on Varmint Al's site that he takes a nylon brush and patch with JB and runs it back and forth through the bore a bunch before he ever fires the rifle.

There are a lot of different opinions on this.  Ive read posts from a lot of benchrest guys not everyone has the same opinion.  Some thinks it smooths out rough factory barrels, some think it makes them easier to clean.  I dont know.  Im not a benchrest shooter, so you may want to get advice from someone else.  My personal opinion based pretty much only on what ive read, is that breaking in your barrel by any way you choose would work fine.  I dont think its like a nice seasoned cast iron fry pan and you have to treat it just right in begining to get it right.  Pretty much all that any of the break in procedures do is wear the barrel down a little bit.  I dont think you can screw it up.  On my last new rifle, i cleaned in between the first 3 shots, then every five for 20 more.  Then after that i just cleaned it after every time i got back from shooting.  


Varmint Al-- http://www.cctrap.com/~varmint/ahunt.htm

Gale McMillian-- http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Barrel_BreakIn.htm[url]

[tony t]

If you go to the Shilen website, you'll see that they don't think breaking in their barrels has any effect whatsoever.  Of course they hand lap theirs.  I also read that the break-in was primarily for smoothing out the machining marks in the throat area.  If you think you have a really rough barrel, try Tubbs fire lapping system.  It may help, and it really can't hurt.

[Howler]

If you go to the Shilen website, you'll see that they don't think breaking in their barrels has any effect whatsoever.  Of course they hand lap theirs.  I also read that the break-in was primarily for smoothing out the machining marks in the throat area.  If you think you have a really rough barrel, try Tubbs fire lapping system.  It may help, and it really can't hurt.

 I believe hand lapping is better & lots cheaper! a fellow can ruin a barrel though if it isnt done properly. I broke my 17hmr in by shooting, but only because the little bore is hard to get molten lead poured into & around the jag with the equipment i had on hand, sure would have been cheaper to lapp it though.

[DoubleA]

Ok folks my 2 cents.

I enjoy shooting and cleaning my firearms, so I enjoy breaking them in.  I believe that any method of 'breaking in' a barrel is better than what my dad did with his first guns.  He use to just shoot a box when he got them, to get experience with it and sight it in, then he would clean it.  After that there were the 'check sighting' rounds (3 or 4) every year before deer season from then on out.  This to me makes me think of my wife and her cars before we were married.  She would buy a new car, drive it, maybe change the oil when it was first recommended, but then maybe wait till 5000 miles.  That was her method until she got a new car, maybe change it maybe she wouldn't.

I believe that cleaning anything you care about or want to keep for a long time is a good thing, whether it is a pair or shoes, a car, or a rifle.

I believe that cleaning a rifle often in the first 100 rounds is a good thing, with all the pressures that build up and bake grime into the barrel rifling time and time again, how can that be a good thing?  I'm not saying that you should use every cleaning liquid you can find after every round, I'm just saying run some 'whatever you use' with some patches down the tube more often when it is new.  I'm sure to some 'breaking in' a barrel is taking away from the barrel life, but that's why I bought it, to shoot it, and if shooting it is taking away from the barrel life, good, I hope that once in my life I can "shoot a barrel out'.  I don't see it happening, but then again what is your definition of shooting out a barrel??  Let me know if you have shot out a barrel, and I will buy your old and shot out gun for a modest price.

Thanks,
~DoubleA~

[Jose Grande]

AA, I have a Columbian mauser that the barrel is shot out . It's 30-06 & it only takes 8-10,000 rds. to wear out an 06' barrel. I've already got a new barrel & stock so it will get an overhaul before I shoot it again.
Lone Yankee who posts here once in a while wore out 3 barrels on a M-1 rifle NM.
We shoot thousands of rounds a year & things wear out.

Re above post Break In: A new standard barrel needs breaking in,no doubt about it.