Author Topic: Winchester model 70 (Read 1943 times)

helobill · « **on:** March 02, 2003, 05:34:11 PM »

See lots of talk on the Rem and Savage and even the Howa, but no one mentioning the Winchester. I haven't bought a new bolt gun in a long time (been caught up in contender fever, but I think it's breaking), but since I'm thinking elk hunt in about 18 months I gotta think new gun :grin: . And it just so happens (after turning down a 338 Lapua Mag) I got offered a Winchester Black Shadow in 300 win mag for $325. Now that seems really good to me, but since none of you guys are saying anything about wins (good or bad) I'm starting to worry. Are the new Winchesters (which I know aren't made by them any longer) any good? Should I pass on this and keep looking?
Helicopter Bill

Balto · « **Reply #1 on:** March 02, 2003, 06:16:19 PM »

I own two of the newer Mod 70's in the stainless models with claw extractors. One has a wood stock (30-06) and the other has the synthetic 338. Love them both and both easily shoot better than 1 1/2 any day of the week with all factory and reloaded ammo I have fed it. They will both shoot under an inch with certain factory reloads and certain reloads.The triggers are easy to adjust. The only complaint I have is that on my (338) it will only feed smoothly when loaded with two in the mag and one in the chamber --even though it will take 3 in the mag with one in the chamber. Other guys I have talked to do not seem to have this problem. I wish it would take four. But this is my only complaint. They both feed well and have proven reliable.

This is just my limited experience. I am sure there are lemons out there just like anywhere. hope it helps............Balto

SeanD · « **Reply #2 on:** March 02, 2003, 09:30:43 PM »

Bought a new 300 win mag model 70 a few years ago and the scope mount holes were completely off alignment with the bore. Couldnt even bore sight the rifle, had to switch to a windage adjustable base. Bought a 1300 shotgun a year later and didnt really give it a good look over before i bought it, it was new, what could be wrong with it? The stock is misaligned with the receiver by about 1/16". But it was a synthetic i bought to use hard anyway and it shot good, so i kept it. Overall, im not too impressed with winchester's quality control.

Zachary · « **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2003, 02:54:31 AM »

I own several M70s - all Classic Stainless. I have them in the 270WSM, 300 Win. Mag., .338 Win. Mag., and .375 H&H Mag.

I have had trigger jobs done by a competent gunsmith on all of my M70s. My 338 with PMC 225 grain Barnes X shoots about 1 to 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards - that's great pig medicine - and elk medicine to boot.

I guess you are right. There really hasn't been much talk about the Winnies - but that's only as of late because several discussions have come up in the past.

Now, that said, I would NOT recommend the Black Shadow - that's probably why someone is selling it so cheap. Winchester has two models whose names share a similar theme. One is the Black Shadow, and I forgot the other one. In any event, I have heard quite a few people complaining about these particular models - saying that accuracy was, believe it or not, about 4 to 6 inches at 100 yards. After going back to the Winnie plant a couple of times, Winchester finally gave the guy a new gun - which still never shot better than about 2" at 100.

Personally, I have had such good luck with the M70 Classic Stainless, that I would only recommend that particular model in the Winchester line.

Zachary

chk · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2003, 03:07:17 AM »

I've got a M70 classic stainless 30-06. I had an aftermarket laminated stock put on it and the length of pull cut to 13". It shoots far better than I can. (sub moa ) I adjusted the trigger pull to 3lbs and no overtravel. :grin:

grouper sandwich · « **Reply #5 on:** March 03, 2003, 03:12:34 AM »

Sean D, I looked at a Winchester M70 this past weekend and I too noticed that the scope mount holes seemed to be misaligned. I thought that it was just me, but after hearing your story, I think that this may be a real problem with the M70's. It seemed as if they were slightly leaning to the left. The action seemed butter smooth and the gun felt great, but I was concerned about those mount holes.

JBabcock · « **Reply #6 on:** March 03, 2003, 04:06:55 AM »

I also have a Winchester Classic, SS in 338. It shoots great, feeds great. Couldn't ask for a better rifle.
If you are having trouble getting the 4th round to go into the chamber it may be the claw extracter. Hold the last round down far enough to let the extracter slide over it, they may, or may not solve your problems. Claw extractors won't always slip around the case like a push feed. My Mausers won't, my Model 70 will.

Zachary · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2003, 05:05:05 AM »

I agree with JBabcock's input, although I have never had any feeding problems with any of my M70s.

Zachary

Steve L · « **Reply #8 on:** March 03, 2003, 06:57:30 AM »

I agree with Zachary in that purchasing the Black Shadow could prove to be a gamble with the odds against you from the start.

On the other hand though, the Win. Classic is my favorite hunting action and a very sound platform. I have purchased a couple off the shelf and have gotten them to shoot great with a little tuning (trigger work, bedding, action screw adjustment, and tinkering with barrel pressure.) Do not let all that scare you, all you really need to get MOA will most likely be to adjust the trigger and find the load it likes best but I am one that can never leave well enough alone and realy enjoy "tinkering" with my rifles and trying to squeeze that last little bit of accuracy out that I know is in there somewhere :grin:

B Krumbach · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2003, 07:29:30 AM »

Ummm, somebody might want to tell the last three whitetails I've shot that the Black Shadow is a piece of junk.
I purchase one about four years ago when I was a poor college student. It's a 30-06 and it came with a cheap Simmons scope, because it came with a scope is why I purchased it. Now I will admit that it's not the prettiest rifle and the stock is a big piece of crap, but I've had not problems with it at all. Two of the deer where taken at about only fifty yards, but the other one was taken at about two-hundred yards. Hindsight being 20/20 I wish I had waited and purchased a nicer rifle, but I've no complainst as of yet.

Zachary · « **Reply #10 on:** March 03, 2003, 08:20:25 AM »

I don't think it's a question of ALL of the Black Shadows having problems, but rather that there appears (or at least appeared) are a noticeable amount had problems. When I hear of too many problems, I won't take a chance on it. Still, I'm glad that your particular Black Shadow came out great.

Zachary

JBabcock · « **Reply #11 on:** April 21, 2003, 02:08:42 PM »

Thought I'd post my latest group from my 338 Model 70 Classic. This was right after I installed an Acra-Bond Laminate stock. 7/16's of an inch, center to center at 100 yards. Factory Core-Lokt's. 250 grain.

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2220696.jpg

jdt48653 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 21, 2003, 02:29:08 PM »

i am very happy with my win 70 ,with claw in 264 win mag! very smooth!

helobill · « **Reply #13 on:** April 21, 2003, 05:00:29 PM »

Thanks for the info guys. I passed on the black shadow, but picked up a model 70 classic in 300 ultra mag :eek: Let you know how it shoots when I finally get around to it.
Helicopter Bill

Zachary · « **Reply #14 on:** April 22, 2003, 04:13:19 AM »

Quote from: JBabcock

Thought I'd post my latest group from my 338 Model 70 Classic. This was right after I installed an Acra-Bond Laminate stock. 7/16's of an inch, center to center at 100 yards. Factory Core-Lokt's. 250 grain.

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2220696.jpg

JBabcock,

That's one heck of an impressive group! Especially considering it's from a .338 WM, and with factory ammo!

I get about 1" groups with my PMC factory ammo in 225 Barnes X - which is great, but not nearly as good as your 7/16"

Zachary

HHI #4694 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 22, 2003, 10:22:30 PM »

What rarely gets mentioned is that even the post 64 style "push feed" Winchester actions including the "Black Shadow" is superior to the Remington 700 push feed design. The extractor is better, the safety far better designed, and the trigger system is substantially superior. The action is milled steel and not a series of fitted together tubes. The bolt handle and bolt are a one piece unit; not silver soldered on like the Remingtons. The recoil lug is substantial and not a cheesy hardware store washer. There is understandably bitterness over the post 64 design as compared to the pre 64 CRF action. Nonetheless, it was and is a better action than any Remington 700.