X bullet or Core-loct?

[Ramrod]

Lets hear it from you experienced bear hunters out there. Here's the deal...
You just got a good 200 yard shot in with a Barnes X bullet. Then your bear runs off from the river bank into some really thick willows. Are you reloading the old aught six with the round-nosed bullets, or are you gonna "dance with the one you brung"? Please tell, and explain your choice. :twisted:

[Buckfever]

Stop him!!!!!!   Break him down!!!!!....   Last but not least run faster than your hunting buddy.   Buckfever :lol:

[Redhawk1]

180 gr. Barnes X will get the job done.  

[Lawdog]

Out of any of my .300 magnums or even any of my .30-06’s you better believe I want the Barnes advantage.  I prefer my bullets to not break apart at higher velocities.  On top of that the 180 gr. Barnes TSX will out penetrate the 220 gr. Core-Lokt.  The Core-Lokt isn’t as good as the Nosler Partition and the 180 gr. Barnes TSX will out penetrate either the 200 or 220 gr. Partition.  I’ve tried/tested them and proved it to my satisfaction.  Lawdog
 

[jro45]

I've hunted bears before and I would not use a 180gr bullet I had 220 gr bullets loaded for bear.  

[mangulator]

Give me the Barnes X bullet when things go bad:D

[RemingtonMagnum]

Give me the 220 Core Loct it want only drop him but will actually knock him down and roll him.

Don Jackson Remington Magnum

[RemingtonMagnum]

LOKT

[35Rem]

The 220 grain factory load isn't all that impressive.  The X-bullets are, though.  The 220 is kind of heavy for the '06, just doesn't get the velocity to out do a 180.

[Ramrod]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people actually think velocity has anything to do with killing power.  :-D  :-D  :-D

[SmackFactor]

Hello Ramrod,
I could return that to you. It always amazes me how many people are content to live in the dark ages. Velocity gives a whole new class of cartridge. Take a 35 rem to a 358 win. Or a 45 colt to a 454 casull. Or a 257 bob to a 257 wby. Or a 45/70 to a 458 win. All of the lower velocity rounds are fine cartridges and will kill a LOT of game, but the higher velocity rounds are a class different. Not everyone needs or wants more velocity but some need or want more power. I am not talking speed just for the sake of it, but speed that is useful on larger game or at longer ranges and used with the right bullet put in the right spot for the game being shot. Use what you like. Make mine fast. Anything a big slow bullet can do, a big fast bullet can do better. I have seen it to my satisfaction many times in my 57 years.
Regards,
Jerry

[Gonzo Joe]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people actually think velocity has anything to do with killing power.  :-D  :-D  :-D

Statements like that slay me!    :-D  

If velocities had nothing to with killing power, we wouldn't need rifles, we'd all just be out there throwing bullets by hand.  :roll:

[Lawdog]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people actually think velocity has anything to do with killing power.  :-D  :-D  :-D

Statements like that slay me!    :-D  

If velocities had nothing to with killing power, we wouldn't need rifles, we'd all just be out there throwing bullets by hand.  :roll:

 :-D Seems people forget that velocity equates into added penetration.  Lawdog
 

[35Rem]

Ramrod,

I don't need a whole lot of velocity to kill anything. My "Name" is 35 Rem, as in 35 Remington, hardly barnburner.  

I don't use the 30-06 that often, I don't need to.  I do know that it has power enough to take care of most anything in America.  Good enough for me.

The ads for the 35 Remington when it came out (1906) said it was "Big enough for the biggest game."  They proved it, by the way.  I don't think the critters have gotten any tougher since then, either.

I was just answering the question based on energy figures in Remington's ballistics chart (they are the ones that load the 220 grainer)
The 220 doesn't have enough steam to keep up with the energy delivered by the 180.

[Buckfever]

I think the better question is would you take the 30-06 in the bush looking for big trouble or would you go back to the truck and get the 35 Whelen, 444, 45-70, 9.3x62 or the .375.  But that ain't the question.  This seems to be are you a fan of Roy Weatherby or Elmer Keith.  Buckfever

[jason280]

Seems people forget that velocity equates into added penetration. Lawdog

Not always true.  Velocity is somewhat overrated when looking at penetration, especially when considering heavyweight cartridges.  See this thread below:

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=73198&highlight=4570

In the case of the 45-70/.458 argument, higher velocities accomplish nothing in the way of penetration.

[jason280]

The 220 grain factory load isn't all that impressive. The X-bullets are, though. The 220 is kind of heavy for the '06, just doesn't get the velocity to out do a 180.

What's not impressive about a 220gr bullet?

If I'm going after large/wounded game, then I want a big, round nose bullet.  This isn't going to be a long shot, and a pointed bullet is not needed.  In this scenario, you want a bullet to open up and penetrate well.  Simply stated, no bullet has done this any better over the last several decades than the Core-Lokt.  Besides, the "increased" velocity of the 180gr bullet calculates to less than 100 ft-lbs of KE difference between the two bullet weights (2913 vs 2837).  Arguing this will make any difference any killing an animal is downright foolish.  

Given this scenario and those two bullet choices, I'll take the 220gr bullet every day of the week.

[jerkface11]

If you're following a wounded bear into the brush go with the 220 grainer. And as for the 180 penetrating more no way. The 220 will go in one side and out the other no problem who cares how many feet of air it goes thru once it's out? The bear sure won't.

[35Rem]

"In this scenario, you want a bullet to open up and penetrate well."

That's exactly what the Barnes X-Bullet is designed for.  It will definately open up and still penetrate extremely deep.  The difference between the 180 and 220 opens up to over 200 ft-lbs at 100 yards, so it looses steam pretty quickly.  I understand we are talking close range, but the bear my be farther than you think when you have the slower bullet in the chamber, will point of impact be the same?  I don't know, but I doubt it.
The Barnes is also a solid copper bullet, no core to separate.  
When it gets down and dirty I want 100% performance.

The core lokts are great bullets, no doubt.  I use a lot of them.  The Barnes is a premium bullet, so I would expect premium performance.  It will deliver.

[jason280]

The difference between the 180 and 220 opens up to over 200 ft-lbs at 100 yards, so it looses steam pretty quickly

I think you are placing way too much emphasis on velocity and KE figures.  Both of these bullets are churning out over 2000+ ft-lbs of energy, and +/- 200 ft-lbs is not going to make any difference on an animal in the real world.  

Now, I admit I missed a portion of original question.  If I'm hunting, and I shoot an animal with one bullet, I am not changing over loads simply because I am closer.  I will stick with the bullet I started with, and in this case that would be the "X" bullet.  

However, if I had to choose between the two for close quarter bear work, then I would choose the 220gr Core-Lokt.

[Lawdog]

Seems people forget that velocity equates into added penetration. Lawdog

Not always true.  Velocity is somewhat overrated when looking at penetration, especially when considering heavyweight cartridges.  See this thread below:

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=73198&highlight=4570

In the case of the 45-70/.458 argument, higher velocities accomplish nothing in the way of penetration.

I have seen tests that were run comparing the same 150 gr. bullet out of a .308 Winchester and a .300 Winchester magnum.  These tests were run using ballistic gelatin and the .300 Winchester Magnum out penetrated the .308 by a great margin.  Maybe you don’t use “magnum” velocity cartridges but there are many that do.  I happen to be one of them so I prefer to use bullets that I know will hold together.  I also own and shoot many “standard” velocity cartridges and I use the same bullets.  Why purchase different brands of bullets just because you are switching between say a .30-06 and a .300 Weatherby Magnum when one brand works and performs well in both?  Lawdog
 

[jason280]

Why purchase different brands of bullets just because you are switching between say a .30-06 and a .300 Weatherby Magnum when one brand works and performs well in both?

Because premium bullets offer very little (in performance) over standard bullets (read Core-Lokts, Power Points, Hi Shoks, etc) when used in non magnum cartridges.  The number one reason for the development of premium bullets was simply because of the increased velocities of magnum cartridges (and the fact bullets couldn't stand up to the increased MV's).  Very few bullets actually fail when used at the velocities they are rated for.  Now, there is nothing wrong with using the same in both calibers.  But the fact remains you aren't going to gain much using a 180gr Trophy Bonded bullet vs a 180gr Core-Lokt in a .308 (as an example).  

But, I will say this again.  Velocity is overrated when it comes to penetration.  Two of the most important aspects of penetration don't involve MV, but rely on bullet construction and SD.

[jason280]

I have seen tests that were run comparing the same 150 gr. bullet out of a .308 Winchester and a .300 Winchester magnum. These tests were run using ballistic gelatin and the .300 Winchester Magnum out penetrated the .308 by a great margin.

Do you have a link with the specifics on this test??

[jerkface11]

OK guys i'll load some 168 grain combined technologies balistic silvertips and some 220 grain sierra round noses in my 300 win mag. At max 30-06 velocities and shoot them into a bullet box at 20 yards. Then i'll report back which one penetrated the deepest. Give me a week or two though.

[35Rem]

Well, I'm gonna go on record as saying that I wouldn't shoot another animal with the 168 grain Ballistic Silvertip.  I shot a doe with a 308 win and it blew up, separated and made a mess.  I wouldn't do it again.  That bullet's not made to penetrate like the X-bullet, anyway.
Not sure if it's fair to compare the sierra to the core lockt either, especially at MAX 30-06 loads.  Don't know if the poster is going to load his own 220's or use factory stuff, so I assume factory, which is slower than max.

Lets keep on track with the original post.  I still feel that the faster 180 gr. X-Bullet (not a 180 Core Lockt) would out penetrate a 220 core lockt, and have more energy due to the higher velocity.  

Don't forget that the gun is zeroed for the 180 Barnes, to begin with, also.

[Lawdog]

I have seen tests that were run comparing the same 150 gr. bullet out of a .308 Winchester and a .300 Winchester magnum. These tests were run using ballistic gelatin and the .300 Winchester Magnum out penetrated the .308 by a great margin.

Do you have a link with the specifics on this test??

Wasn't on the internet.  Police reports and tests that were run in Gun World and other gun magazine back before the internet existed.  I have ran my own penetration tests using gallon plastic bottles filled with water and they support the results the others have done.  While you may think that velocity is over rated there are many of us that like to have the advantage that the extra velocity has.  Flatter shooting and deeper penetration are two advantages that do help in the types/places where I hunt.  Lawdog
 

[Jaydub in Wi]

I would take the x bullet without a doubt. Somewhere in my pile of rifle magazines, I believe there was a penetration test and the 180 x bullet out penetrated the 200gr nosler partition. If I remember right, the 150 gr x bullet out penetrated the 180 gr core loct. Now back to the subject at hand, I think under extreme stress the petals could shear off which would allow even deeper penetration. I think the tougher bullet would be the one to have, although a 200 gr would be better and a 250 gr 338 would be better still. JUst my opinion

[Slamfire]

If you're following a wounded bear into the brush go with the 220 grainer. And as for the 180 penetrating more no way. The 220 will go in one side and out the other no problem who cares how many feet of air it goes thru once it's out? The bear sure won't.

The 180s generally do that too. Once the bullet exits it doesn't matter how heavy it is.

[tanoose]

Jack O'conner was once talking about the 30/06  , he felt there wasn't much need for the 220 grain bullet except maybe for african lions as he has seen the 180 grain bullets go through both shoulders on grizzly bears.

[tscott]

I can only talk about deer with 220's... I love the combo of them out of my Mark V... Dead deer on the spot! Very accurate out to a killing distance for me (100 yds). 220's do surprisingly little damage to meat.
I filet on the spot for backpack, and I hunt for using the entire deer.
Including heart for biology class, liver for the pan, and bucktail for streamers and jigs. 220 Corelokd is a terrific stable round, but still 2nd to 180's out of my Model 99f .300 Savage. I hate that jelly shoulder mess common of the high speed rounds!!!