savage sierra is inconsistent

[beckerhead]

My dad has a pre-accutrigger sierra in .308, with a Nikon Monarch 3X9 on it.
We have shot several types of ammo, and 2 1/2" is about the best we can get. The groups are inconsistent, mostly elevation, anywhere from -0- to 3"high, in a 3 shot group.  I checked the mounts & rings, the crown is good, and the trigger is as good as a factory savage can be (kinda gritty). Any help would be appreciated, since I told him how accurate savages were, and now it seems that crow is on the menu for me.

[safetysheriff]

if shooting off a bench using a rest you need to remove the sling-swivel studs; shoot off a smooth slippery surface like a sandbag but not a leather/suede bag that isn't covered with something slippery;  don't shoot off a surface that is hard because it will cause vertical stringing; a clean, dry barrel and chamber are a must; the barrel'd action and stock must be reasonably tightened down to each other; your breathing must be controlled; the rifle should be rested on a relatively flat portion of the stock close to the foreend if possible (Unlike with a single-shot Handi' for example); a firing pin spring that is weak can cause eratic ignition and lead to 'vertical stringing' like you are getting ("mostly elevation").  

if at all possible, from now on buy Remington's instead of SSssssss Ssssssssssaaaaaa :eek: SSSSSSSSSsssssssssssssaaaaaa :oops:

You get the point!

ss'

[Lawdog]

beckerhead,

and the trigger is as good as a factory savage can be (kinda gritty).

First thing I would do is have that trigger honed a bit to take out that "gritty" feeling.  Second you didn't state what bullet weight you are using and if they are factory or hand loads?  Lastly I would have the clearance checked between the barrel and the stock.  As the barrel heats up if there isn’t enough clearance they could be touching.

if at all possible, from now on buy Remington's instead of SSssssss    Ssssssssssaaaaaa  :eek:   SSSSSSSSsssssssssssssaaaaaa   :oops:

By all means buy RRReeemmmiiiinnngggtttooonnnsss  :-D  if you're into tinkering and buying after market parts to get rifles to shoot accurately.   :-D    :-D   This way you'll always have a rifle project to work on at night.  Lawdog
 

[marylandeer]

Beck I have the same rifle and it is also inconsistent. Mine is the pre accu trigger model 10 sierra chambered in 7mm-08. It wears a Burris Fullfield II 3-9x40 scope in Leupold rings and a Leupold one piece base. I have been fooling around with rifle for a few years and can't get it shoot anything to my liking. The Remington 140 grain coreloks shoot an inconsistent 3-3 1/2" group at 100 yards with an accasional flyer :cry: . The Horandy 139 grain light magnums will barley hit the paper at 100 :shock: . The Winchester 140 grain power points do the best shooting a fairly consistent 3" group usually a triangular pattern :roll: . None of these loads are even close to being accurate enough for me to feel comfortable hunting with this rifle. I use a Tikka T3 in .30-06 for my hunting  :grin: (shoots sub MOA) and the Savage is just my tinker toy until I figure it out. Next time I take it the range I'm going to try different torque settings on the stock bolts and se if this helps.

[beckerhead]

Thanks for the advice, minus the Rimintunnn plug!! I recommended a Savage because I own one in .25-06 that will regularly shoot 1/4" to 1/2" groups with several factory loads. I wondered if any Savage guys had any particular tips or tricks. We did wrap a dowel with sandpaper and take the tip of the bbl channel down about an 1/8", it seemed way too close for a floated bbl. I am really wondering if the thin bbl is just prone to walking? I think I'll try either 2 shot groups, or cold shots 1 at a time? We are shooting several factory loads, Fed. 150 power-shok w/ Speer Grand Slams, Fed. prem. 150 Barnes XLC's, Hornady 150 SST's & 150 Interlocks. Regarding the trigger, I read on Savage Shooter Forum that the triggers are made of sintered metal, and that polishing them exposes the soft inner metal whick will rapidly wear and ruin the trigger. that said, I have considered looking into a drop in replacement, but only as a last resort, since my rifle has about a 4 1/2 lb. pull and it shoots great. Anybody bed theirs? Another last resort. thanks for the help guys.

[mountainview]

Beck,
One other thing to look at is check the screw holding the action to the stock. Seen an instance where shots were inconsistent but turns out the shooter had not tightened the screw sufficiently after putting the action back in.

[handirifle]

I got a used 30-06 Savage 110, a couple years ago.  Put a new scope on it and took her to the range.  It would group real well, I'd adjust, the impact point and it would spread them all over.  The group well again.

A little dective work uncovered three things.  Major one was one scope base was loose (DUH!) you said you checked those.  Boy what a difference tightening one little screw does.  Don't rule out the scope either.  Have you used it on other rifles to make sure it is good?

Also make sure the recoil lug is making solid contact in the stock, otherwise the screws are doing all the work and that won't cut it.  I bedded the lug area of mine with epoxy and another nice improvement.

Third, was because the screws were TRYING to handle the recoil, the receiver had shifted and the barrel was making contact with the stock after a few shots.

Try 165's in the 308 too.

Hope some of this helps.

[lilabner]

Seems to me like you have done some good trouble shooting. I suggest you slide a business card between the barrel and stock to see if the barrel is making contact anywhere. There should be no contact until you get back near the barrel/action connection. If you find high spots sand them out. Also, I suggest you try a different scope on the rifle - one that you know holds zero. Believe it or not, some scopes tend to wander. I also suggest that you try for absolute consistency in the way the rifle is held, the trigger is squeezed and the fore end is supported.

[handirifle]

Don't mean to imply anything about you or your dads shooting, but are you sure its the rifle?  By that, I mean, is it on a solid rest, front and back?  When I bench test a rifle, my rest holds the rifle ROCK solid.  I want to eliminate ME from the equation when testing a rifle or load.

The ME part comes AFTER the rifle and loads have proven their part.

[beckerhead]

Well went over to pops last night to tinker, double checked the crown under a mag. glass it's ok, the recoil lug mates snugly, I did put a dab of Tetra Lube on the trigger, helped quite a bit. Disassembled, cleaned and lightly lubed the firing pin assembly, its in good shape. I did find that the receiver isn't making full contact at the pillars, I greased the bottom of the receiver and cinched it all down tight, and found only about 50% contact between the two, after we finish sanding out the bbl channel to fully relieve any possible stock to bbl contact and do some shooting if it is still a loose goose I'm gonna try bedding the receiver. As to the benching of the gun, yes it is fully supported front and back on bags, and we have tried different rest positions on the forearm with no luck. I am no expert, but when I shoot my gun into a 1/4" ragged hole, and then fire off a 3.5" "pattern" with his gun I know something ain't right. Will be shooting tomorrow, updates to follow. And thanks to all you guys for the outpouring of info and tips.

[kiwi98j]

IAlso make sure the recoil lug is making solid contact in the stock, otherwise the screws are doing all the work and that won't cut it.  I bedded the lug area of mine with epoxy and another nice improvement.

Third, was because the screws were TRYING to handle the recoil, the receiver had shifted and the barrel was making contact with the stock after a few shots.

Ditto

I've seen this as the culprit in the overwhelming majority of problem child rifles over the years.  

Many times, I’ve found that the recoil lug and stock mating surfaces are not square.  Another problem is the sides of the recoil lug may not be well mated to the stock allowing the barreled action to twist in the stock shifting poi.  I always suspect the recoil lug, especially in a composite stock that is pillar bedded.   By the way, recommended action screw torque for the composite stock is 65 inch pounds, 30-35 inch pounds for wood/laminate stocks.

Before bedding, shim out the front and sides or recoil lug to the stock to insure recoil is being taken by the lug and not the action screws to confirm or eliminate that area as a problem.

Measure the firing pin protrusion at the bolt head or closely observe the spent primer. Protrusion should be between .050 and .062 inches.  If not in this range, I can supply the method to adjust.   Savage’s floating bolt head design coupled with their striker design makes this a low probability as a problem.  I’ve never seen this as a problem with a Savage unless the bolt or bolt head has been changed or striker assembly adjustments have been modified.

Sounds like you're on the right track, one step at a time and attention to detail.