Author Topic: Howa-Savage-Remington....Which for Varmint 243? (Read 1615 times)

myarmor · « **on:** October 10, 2005, 11:10:42 AM »

In the next year I plan on buying Varmint Bull Barrel 243. I would like a 26" barrel. I would mostly be using it for Varmints, thought the occasional deer hunt where I would be seated with a rest-so lugging around a heavy gun isn't really a problem here.
I have somewhat narrowed it down to the three Howa-Savage-Remingon.

1- http://www.legacysports.com/product/index.htm
I really like this Supreme Varmint one. But I believe it has a 24" barrel.
http://www.legacysports.com/newproducts/index.htm
This ones a beaut, though I have absolutly no idea what price range it is....pretty steep I am guessing.

2- http://www.savagearms.com/12bvss.htm
Ahhh...yes the legendary out of the box accuracy of the Savage. Not to mention the Accu-Trigger, in which I love. Heard nothing but steller things about the model 12BVSS.

3- http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/700vls.htm
And the classic model 700 action from Remington. Widely used by snipers and probably the stiffest commerical rifle action out there. I wish Remington offered the XR-100 in 243 then my mind would be made up, but so far they haven't.

So with this narrowed down somewhat, what do you guys think? I would love to hear as much opinions as possibile, though I am leaning in a certain direction at the moment.

pc · « **Reply #1 on:** October 11, 2005, 01:29:49 AM »

I have recently purchased a vls rem 700 .243 and swapped out for the HS stock, I mounted a 8.5-25x50 VX111 in badger rings and a badger zero cant base and addeda lv1 rifle basix trigger, first tru at handloads was 40.5gr of varget behind the 70 gr Nos bt seated just off the lands and it shoots that load under 1/2 moa, I am wrapped to say the least.

Went and purchased a .300 RUM pss with MK4 6.5-20 mil dot in badger rings and 20 moa base and canjar trigger and it shoots as well as the .243 does. I like rem 700's for varmint guns and cz 's for hunting guns so I would say go with the rem 700.

myarmor · « **Reply #2 on:** October 11, 2005, 01:51:43 AM »

I was actually kinda leaning towards the VLS. But the Savage keeps poping up in my mind too. I would probably end up putting a Choate Varmint or Ultimate sniper stock on it later down the road. And I can get that for either the Remington or Savage.
Good thing I have a little time on my hands to make the decision.....by that time maybe Remington will decide to chamber the XR-100 Rangemaster in 243. I would be all set then.

tscott · « **Reply #3 on:** October 11, 2005, 03:06:28 AM »

Howa barreled action!!! Get creative with a nice wood / laminate stock!

Lawdog · « **Reply #4 on:** October 11, 2005, 10:50:01 AM »

Go with the Savage and you won't go wrong. Excellent accuray right out of the box not to mention the money you'll save that you can put into a great scope. Lawdog

myarmor · « **Reply #5 on:** October 11, 2005, 01:58:18 PM »

Actually, as far as price goes, from Walmart the Remington is cheaper:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3170201

And the Savage:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2684974
This is the 308 version, but I am guessing that the price is about the same here.

pagris · « **Reply #6 on:** October 12, 2005, 07:37:46 AM »

myarmor: You and I are apparently considering similar purchases, as I have been contemplating which heavy-barreled .243 with a blued finish (and preferably a laminated stock) to purchase for some time. My intended use is strictly target work and I have narrowed my choices down to the Remington VLS, the Ruger 77 VT, the Savage 12 FV and the Howa Varminter. Last week, on a trip to Maine and New Hampshire, I was able to handle these rifles at a couple of very nice gun shops. My thoughts:

The Ruger has an appealing classiness to its mauser-style action, but I am not real keen on the target-grey finish and the quality of some of the forged parts is iffy.

The Remington is attractive, the quality seems okay, but the safety struck me as feeling cheap and, boy, that extractor sure is tiny (yeah, I know, it's fine but still tiny!)

The Savage has a lot going for it, including a history of accuracy, the Accutrigger, and a large bolt knob and no floor plate, all features which I like. Again the quality is okay, but that flimsy synthetic stock would have to go and a nice laminate stock from Boyds would add money and, more importantly to me, time to the project. If the BVSS model was available in a blued finish, this decision may have been a done deal some time ago - I'm just not a fan of stainless steel actions.

The real surprise to me was the Howa. The model I handled was the Varminter Supreme Laminated Thumbhole model, blued action. The quality of this rifle is a notch above all of the others and I was really impressed with the thumbhole stock (made by Boyds). I would prefer it to have a faster twist rate (it's 1 in 10"), as I am interested in shooting some heavier bullets (like the 105 grain Hornady A-Max), and, quite honestly, had pretty much eliminated it from my list because of this and its 24" barrel - until I saw it. Now I think it is at the top of my list and I am seriously thinking about heading to my local gun shop to order one. Had the one in New Hampshire been a .243, it would have come home with me - I was that impressed. There is a good review of one at this site:

http://www.snipercentral.com/howa.htm

By the way, the Howa lists for $733 and the shop in NH was selling it for $600. This is pretty close to what the Rugers, Remingtons and Savage BVSS were selling for.

Good luck with your decision.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #7 on:** October 12, 2005, 12:14:26 PM »

Since you are talking about a very high intensity cartridge that consumes a lot of powder for its bore size i'd stay away from the button-rifled SSSSsssaaaaaaa

.....and would buy either the Howa or the Remington with their hammer-forged barrels and adjustable triggers. I'd definitely buy a Remington for my own use, but would consider the Howa for a gift, or for your use.

I did buy a Howa manufactured Weatherby Vanguard last year from Wal Mart for $250 after seeing the guys talk about it on the web. That's as much firearm as I'll ever get for $250 in '2004' dollars. I bought a new Rem' M-700 in .308 several years ago for the same money, but that was then. Both of those rifles are Very Accurate. I have no complaints with either, except maybe for the weight of the Vanguard. My Vanguard is in .270 and I'd expect to take a deer easily at 350 yds' with it if I didn't have to dope the wind. (i'm not a sniper!).

stay away from Sssssssssssaaaa :eek: would be my advice!

(i just can't bring myself to say it! :roll: )

ss'

myarmor · « **Reply #8 on:** October 12, 2005, 01:25:23 PM »

Pagris-Thanks for the post. I too really like the Howa's. Very solid and seem to be well made. The thought of a target Ruger did pass my mind, but I have heard that the push feed action of the Remington, Savage, Howa, etc..Is stronger and flexes less than the old tried and true Mauser action. Before anyone jumps on me bashing the Mauser action, I want to say it is a fantastic action, that is probably the most reliable ever constructed. But seeing that I'm not going to be facing down a Cape buffalo with my rifle, I want a once piece push feed action for my target rifle.
Oh, and thanks for the link, I had it on my computer favorites before it got erased. Good to have it back.

Safety Sheriff-Ok I'll bite. What are the disadvantages of a button rifled barrel of the Savage in a 243? Compared to the hammer forged Remington and Howa?

cal sibley · « **Reply #9 on:** October 12, 2005, 06:26:05 PM »

I don't know about this one. Normally I would advise going with Remington. Most of my rifles are Remington 700s in one variant or another, but I've become leery of them lately. Shooters are having problems that would have been unheard of a few years ago. I might look around for alternatives. Just one mans opinion. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

safetysheriff · « **Reply #10 on:** October 13, 2005, 06:01:12 AM »

i've followed both www.nationalmatch.us and www.long-range.com for some time now. on those sites i've seen a few complaints re: quick erosion of barrels/barrel throats on Savage's; and i've read the same with the .243 cartridge in various barrels. neither Savage barrels nor the .243 cartridge are particularly popular for longevity.

it may have been Carmichael who wrote about the compact grain structure achieved with hammer forging when i first read it. the multiple heat treatments used by remington are then able to reduce the stresses imposed by such rifling and seemingly account for no complaints that i've ever read about shooting out remington barrels in a hurry. i know some of the winchester's are now supposedly going to chrome-lined barrels due to erosion from their new wssm's, but the remingtons are not so plagued, as far as i know.

i believe that some of the posting on those sites mentioned above would be worth your time reading. but you'll have to go back over the last 2 years, or so, to see everything i've read about the use of Savage rifles, and the separate group of problems with the .243 Winchester in any kind of rifle. yes, some of the guys like Savage actions and rifles to start with, but they wind up replacing the barrels rather quickly.

the .243 is a bellringer, but it is very hard on barrels.

good luck,

ss'

myarmor · « **Reply #11 on:** October 13, 2005, 07:27:34 AM »

Did they have, or are having, the same problems with the .308 Win?

safetysheriff · « **Reply #12 on:** October 13, 2005, 10:44:35 AM »

no, 'they' on the two website i mentioned have had much longer lives with the .308.

the .308 does have a high working pressure given to it by SAAMI, but the amount of powder being burned and then pushed down a .308 barrel makes for much less throat/barrel erosion than happens with the .243.

i have worked with the .243 ; .308 ; .30-06 ; .22-250 ; and .223 in Rem' Model 700's, and .270 and 7 mm Rem mag's in other models. none of them heats a barrel as fast as the .243 has done in my experience. it is a very intense cartridge both in working pressure and in quantity of powder for the bore. but there is a mathematical formula for figuring out how this might happen.

if you think about it, the .308 bore compared to the .243 has approx' 60% more area in its cross-section to allow powder gases to pass through. that is a big help in letting the powder do its work without heating the barrel. the circumference of the .308 bore is only 26% larger than that of the .243 which shows the reason why less metal is exposed to the heating effect proportionally. the .308 has a distinct advantage when you compare the two parameters...and its barrels generally last much longer.

take care,

ss'