Bullets that can

[jro45]

I just reasonly saw a graft that the Hornady bullets {Interlock} and the Rem {corelock} and a few others were just as good as the premium bullets { Nosler} when it comes to not coming apart At 2700 to 2900 FPS when they enter the animal. Did anyone else see this?

[Redhawk1]

I just reasonly saw a graft that the Hornady bullets {Interlock} and the Rem {corelock} and a few others were just as good as the premium bullets { Nosler} when it comes to not coming apart At 2700 to 2900 FPS when they enter the animal. Did anyone else see this?

I am not trying to bush Barnes bullets on you, but I know that I don't have to worry about them coming apart in the animals.  

[Coyote Hunter]

I just reasonly saw a graft that the Hornady bullets {Interlock} and the Rem {corelock} and a few others were just as good as the premium bullets { Nosler} when it comes to not coming apart At 2700 to 2900 FPS when they enter the animal. Did anyone else see this?

jro45 –

I did not see the article, but traditional “cup and core” bullets have proven themselves quite adequate to the task at .30-06 velocities.  The trick is to match the bullets, their impact velocity and the intended target.

The problem really arises when you go with faster muzzle and higher impact velocities.  A bullet that works very well in a .30-06 may act more like a varmint bullet at .300 Win Mag velocites.  The result may be a spectacularly fast kill or a shallow but grievous wound and a lingering death.  Typically the problems with cup and core bullets at high velocity are not at 500 yards but at 50.

My first elk was taken with a 162g Hornady Interlock BTSP that left the muzzle around 3000fps and impacted 100 yards later.  The bullet went dead center through a rib, through the lungs, apparently went between the ribs on the off-side and came to rest under the hide.   It retained less than 50% of its original weight.  For the next 20 years I used 160g Speer Grand Slams.  The only one I ever recovered took out both shoulder joints of a bull elk yet retained about 70% of its weight.  That was much better performance in my mind.

Expensive bullets, unfortunately, do not guarantee good performance.  My first experience with Barnes XLC’s is a case in point.  I had read reports of X bullets failing to open so I tested my would-be elk load on antelope.  A buck antelope suffered two through the lungs at a hair under 300 yards.  These shots were probably lethal but I got tired of waiting, circled around and put a third XLC though its heart from 100 yards or so some 20-30 minutes after taking the first two shots.  Just before I squeezed that last shot off the buck got up and tried to walk away.  I went back to Grand Slams for elk that year.  Later I read in an article I Shooting Times where Rick Jamison had performed gelatin tests at 2000fps and 3000fps with various bullets.  Both the XLC’s and Failsafes worked perfectly at 2000fps but at 3000fps they opened up and shed their petals.  Don’t know if the XLC’s I put into the antelope penciled through like FMJ’s or shed their petals, but either way the result was extremely disappointing.

The result was I looked to different technology when searching for a bullet for the .45-70.  What I came up with was bonded bullets, in this case the North Fork which has a solid shank and bonded lead core up front like the Speer Trophy bonded, with grooves somewhat like the Barnes TSX’s.  The results were excellent and I have since started using them in my 7mm Mag and .300 win Mag.

Based on my rather limited experience, I have come to prefer bullets that positively limit expansion, either through a solid shank (Barnes X, Speer Trophy Bonded, North Fork) or though a partition (Nosler Partition and Swift A-Frame).  While my experience with Barnes XLC’s was unfavorable, they claim to have solved the problem and I have not heard of any bad reports regarding the TSX’s which I now load for the .257 Roberts and .300 Win Mag.  Due to the previous problems I do not hunt with these loads yet, but they are superbly accurate.  Right now it is Norht Fork bullets for the 7mm Mag, .300 Win Mag and .45-70, and Speer Grand Slams for the .257 Roberts.  The Roberts will get A-Frames for hunting purposes if I ever get the load development done (no North Forks available in .257”).

IMHO, the importance of good bullets becomes less important as bullet weight increases.  But I will still stick with the best I can get because not every shot, no matter how well planned and carefully taken, hits where intended.

[jerkface11]

Barnes X bullets are SUPPOSED to shed their petals. It's not a flaw it's the design. If they hit at high velocity they shed the petals and continue out the other side. Like any other bullet they won't work if they aren't put in the right place. Having said that there's no point in premium bullets for game smaller than elk. Give me a nice heavy round nose for my 7mm and I'll be happy.

[Lawdog]

Barnes X bullets are SUPPOSED to shed their petals. It's not a flaw it's the design. If they hit at high velocity they shed the petals and continue out the other side. Like any other bullet they won't work if they aren't put in the right place. Having said that there's no point in premium bullets for game smaller than elk. Give me a nice heavy round nose for my 7mm and I'll be happy.

Barnes bullets ARE NOT supposed to shed their petals and they don't.  Every one I have recovered from whatever(game or backstop) have all  their petals intact.  Even at higher velocities.  If you want verification of this just ask Barnes, don’t take my word for it.  As for not needing premium bullets for deer, to each his own.  But while I’m hunting deer it’s also Black Bear season and I don’t carry different cartridges on me just for bears.  Lawdog
 

[Redhawk1]

Barnes X bullets are SUPPOSED to shed their petals. It's not a flaw it's the design. If they hit at high velocity they shed the petals and continue out the other side. Like any other bullet they won't work if they aren't put in the right place. Having said that there's no point in premium bullets for game smaller than elk. Give me a nice heavy round nose for my 7mm and I'll be happy.

Barnes bullets ARE NOT supposed to shed their petals and they don't.  Every one I have recovered from whatever(game or backstop) have all  their petals intact.  Even at higher velocities.  If you want verification of this just ask Barnes, don’t take my word for it.  As for not needing premium bullets for deer, to each his own.  But while I’m hunting deer it’s also Black Bear season and I don’t carry different cartridges on me just for bears.  Lawdog
 

Lawdog is 100% correct. I recovered a 300 gr. Barnes X bullet from my recent Water Buffalo hunt and the bullet was a perfect mushroom.

Use what ever bullet that you think works for you. Me I will stick with Barnes.  

[jerkface11]

Barnes X bullets are SUPPOSED to shed their petals. It's not a flaw it's the design. If they hit at high velocity they shed the petals and continue out the other side. Like any other bullet they won't work if they aren't put in the right place. Having said that there's no point in premium bullets for game smaller than elk. Give me a nice heavy round nose for my 7mm and I'll be happy.

Barnes bullets ARE NOT supposed to shed their petals and they don't.  Every one I have recovered from whatever(game or backstop) have all  their petals intact.  Even at higher velocities.  If you want verification of this just ask Barnes, don’t take my word for it.  As for not needing premium bullets for deer, to each his own.  But while I’m hunting deer it’s also Black Bear season and I don’t carry different cartridges on me just for bears.  Lawdog
 

 Barnes says otherwise.
Will X-Bullets always retain 100% of their weight?
Our bullet is solid copper, so it retains its weight better than any conventional bullet available today. In a worst case scenario, even if all four petals detached because of a close-range, high-velocity shot striking very heavy bone, the bullet will retain 85% of it's original weight. Under the same situation, a lead core bullet would probably disintegrate.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/faq_x-bullets.php

[Redhawk1]

Barnes X bullets are SUPPOSED to shed their petals. It's not a flaw it's the design. If they hit at high velocity they shed the petals and continue out the other side. Like any other bullet they won't work if they aren't put in the right place. Having said that there's no point in premium bullets for game smaller than elk. Give me a nice heavy round nose for my 7mm and I'll be happy.

Barnes bullets ARE NOT supposed to shed their petals and they don't.  Every one I have recovered from whatever(game or backstop) have all  their petals intact.  Even at higher velocities.  If you want verification of this just ask Barnes, don’t take my word for it.  As for not needing premium bullets for deer, to each his own.  But while I’m hunting deer it’s also Black Bear season and I don’t carry different cartridges on me just for bears.  Lawdog
 

 Barnes says otherwise.
Will X-Bullets always retain 100% of their weight?
Our bullet is solid copper, so it retains its weight better than any conventional bullet available today. In a worst case scenario, even if all four petals detached because of a close-range, high-velocity shot striking very heavy bone, the bullet will retain 85% of it's original weight. Under the same situation, a lead core bullet would probably disintegrate.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/faq_x-bullets.php

Your reading to much into it. "In a worst case scenario"   :idea3:  
Then is says.
a lead core bullet would probably disintegrate.

The Barnes X bullet I shot into my Water buffalo went through both shoulders at 135 yards and came out with 99% weight retention.  I have also shot my 416 Rigby from 25 yards into a sand back stop and recovered 5 bullets with 98% weight retention and all pedals intact.

[jerkface11]

I said that if they hit at high velocity the petals come off. Barnes says the same thing. Guess i'm wrong though.

[Redhawk1]

I said that if they hit at high velocity the petals come off. Barnes says the same thing. Guess i'm wrong though.

From there site also.

When I use the X-Bullet, should I choose a lighter bullet than I'd normally use?
Because the X-Bullet retains nearly 100 percent of its original weight and penetrates so well, many shooters do select a lighter-weight X-Bullet over a heavier conventional bullet. The lighter X-Bullet delivers higher velocities and a flatter trajectory, and outperforms heavier bullets of conventional design.

[Redhawk1]

I said that if they hit at high velocity the petals come off. Barnes says the same thing. Guess i'm wrong though.

Again as quoted from there site.  In a worst case scenario

[jerkface11]

I said that if they hit at high velocity the petals come off. Barnes says the same thing. Guess i'm wrong though.

From there site also.

When I use the X-Bullet, should I choose a lighter bullet than I'd normally use?
Because the X-Bullet retains nearly 100 percent of its original weight and penetrates so well, many shooters do select a lighter-weight X-Bullet over a heavier conventional bullet. The lighter X-Bullet delivers higher velocities and a flatter trajectory, and outperforms heavier bullets of conventional design.

 I didn't say anything contrary to that. And I didn't say they don't work. So what's that got to do with my post?

[Redhawk1]

Barnes X bullets are SUPPOSED to shed their petals. It's not a flaw it's the design. If they hit at high velocity they shed the petals and continue out the other side. Like any other bullet they won't work if they aren't put in the right place. Having said that there's no point in premium bullets for game smaller than elk. Give me a nice heavy round nose for my 7mm and I'll be happy.

I didn't say anything contrary to that. And I didn't say they don't work. So what's that got to do with my post?.

You said

Barnes X bullets are SUPPOSED to shed their petals. It's not a flaw it's the design. If they hit at high velocity they shed the petals and continue out the other side..

This is what we were talking about. It is not a true statement.

[jerkface11]

I said they shed their petals if they hit at high velocity. The barnes website says the exact same thing. Grow up.

[Slamfire]

Advertising!  :roll:
Bullets don't leave my gun at more'n 2900 fps, so I can git along quite well with corelokts or inter lockeds.  

[Redhawk1]

I said they shed their petals if they hit at high velocity. The barnes website says the exact same thing. Grow up.

No need to get hostile. When your wrong your wrong. There is no reason to get upset and start getting personal. I thought we were trying to have a discussion and post facts, and then when you are proven wrong you start tell people to grow up.

When I am wrong, I will at least be man enough to admit it. I just quoted what you wrote.

[Redhawk1]

jro45, I apologize for the posts getting out of hand and off topic.  

[riddleofsteel]

Not many water buffalo running the woods where I hunt. For the deer that we do have Hornady InterLocks seem to work just fine. In three decades of filling my freezer I have never had a deer lost due to bullet failure. I started with the 6mm Rem 100 grain, the 7-30 Waters 139 grain, went to the 30-06 150 grain , then the 25-06 117 grain, toyed briefly with the 30-08 150 grain and have finally come back to the the .270 130 grain as my primary deer rifle.
In all these calibers I chose the bullet weight carefully for the game I am hunting and the bullet brand by the Hornady InterLock tag on the end.

[beemanbeme]

While we're talking about "worst case scenarios", seems that is what a wise man would plan for.  
I've kilt a grand total of 12 elk.  None at much beyond 100 yards.  With 30-06's thru .338's.  Of the bullets I've used, a Grand Slam is about as good as it gets.  
I've never shot a Barnes bullet thru any of my rifles and don't really plan to no matter how good they are said to be as what I have used so far has worked quite well.  Perhaps if I get too enthralled with some sort of magic bullet, I start forgetting that its really my markmanship and hunting ability that accounts for most of the kill.

[jro45]

beemanbeme,
   I agree it is the markmanship always. But the bullets has to do its part also. At the volicity I saw was as it entered the animal. The bullet probably started out at 2900 to 3200 fps. I thought that at these volicitys
bullets were doing what they were supose to do without it being a premium
bullet.

[beemanbeme]

I think Elmer Keith was the one that said, "if your bullet exceeds @2900fps, you need more bullet not more speed".  Sound advice from my experiences.

[jro45]

What I need to find out is if these Hornady, Remington, Speer bullets hold up like that graph said. At 3200 fps to 2900 fps when entering into the body of the animal being hunted. It sounds like it might be right without using a preminum bullet. I'm going Black Bear hunting again next summer and I will find out how the bullets do then.

[Redhawk1]

Not many water buffalo running the woods where I hunt. For the deer that we do have Hornady InterLocks seem to work just fine. In three decades of filling my freezer I have never had a deer lost due to bullet failure. I started with the 6mm Rem 100 grain, the 7-30 Waters 139 grain, went to the 30-06 150 grain , then the 25-06 117 grain, toyed briefly with the 30-08 150 grain and have finally come back to the the .270 130 grain as my primary deer rifle.
In all these calibers I chose the bullet weight carefully for the game I am hunting and the bullet brand by the Hornady InterLock tag on the end.

The Water Buffalo was just one example. Like I said, I don't care what you use, if it works for you great. But Barnes bullets works for me.  

[Lawdog]

I said they shed their petals if they hit at high velocity. The barnes website says the exact same thing. Grow up.

Actually the Barnes web site doesn’t say they are supposed to or that they will shed their petals even at higher velocities.  They don't.  I have shot many Barnes bullets in different calibers from .224 to .338 at velocities over 3,200 fps. and haven't had any petals come off any of the bullets that I have recovered.  That includes backstops made of dirt or wood.  Anything that would make a Barnes bullet shed a petal or two would cause a normal lead core bullets to fragment.  Lawdog
 

[Redhawk1]

While we're talking about "worst case scenarios", seems that is what a wise man would plan for.  
I've kilt a grand total of 12 elk.  None at much beyond 100 yards.  With 30-06's thru .338's.  Of the bullets I've used, a Grand Slam is about as good as it gets.  
I've never shot a Barnes bullet thru any of my rifles and don't really plan to no matter how good they are said to be as what I have used so far has worked quite well.  Perhaps if I get too enthralled with some sort of magic bullet, I start forgetting that its really my markmanship and hunting ability that accounts for most of the kill.

You are correct about preparing for worst case scenarios. And if a Barnes bullet will retain 85% of it weight in the worst case, I say that is well prepared.

You are also correct in marksmanship and hunting ability. I agree 100%. I also include proper equipment and proper attitude. I did not need to validate that for you, it was a given.

There is no magic bullet, it all come down to personal preference. All of our goals are the same, to enjoy our sport and share our knowledge.  

[Lawdog]

There is no magic bullet, it all come down to personal preference. All of our goals are the same, to enjoy our sport and share our knowledge.

AMEN.  Lawdog
 

[riddleofsteel]

Redhawk1

Just poking a little fun to make my point. I used to work up loads that would have been able to slay a Rhino until I realized that I rarely needed such loads. The same goes for super wiz bang magnums. They have capabilities that are great but beyond what I will probably will ever need.

Again, all in fun brother.

 

[Redhawk1]

Redhawk1

Just poking a little fun to make my point. I used to work up loads that would have been able to slay a Rhino until I realized that I rarely needed such loads. The same goes for super wiz bang magnums. They have capabilities that are great but beyond what I will probably will ever need.

Again, all in fun brother.

 

I did not have a problem at all with you post, I was just letting you know I was using the Water buffalo as an example. I don't carry rounds for Buff either unless I am hunting them.  

Most of my loads are in the mid range of loading, I go foe accuracy first.  

[Graybeard]

This ends NOW!

You're all saying the same thing and arguing with yourself as much as with the other party. There is too much personal bias caused by previous anomousity to certain persons. Cool off and stick to the topics all of you.