Which rifle is more powerful

[carl1864]

The other day I got a chance to shoot my friend's 308 rifle, I was AMAZED at the power and penetration this thing had.  We stacked up planks of wood and it shot through about 2 1/2 to 3 feet of wood before the bullet would stop.  Before that I had just shot .22's 9mm's, and 12 guages.  Anyways this makes me really want to go buy a high power rifle.  I was looking at a few different ones like a 300 , 30.06, and of course 308, I'm sure theres others.  I'm wondering, which is the most powerful type of rifle I can get?  I don't have a huge budget, I'd like to spend no more than $280-$500 for the gun, and I would hope that ammo is not too crazy expensive, maybe along the lines of how much the 308 ammo costs.  Any suggestions which caliber is strongest?

[The Sodbuster]

Penetration is due both to the energy of the bullet (proportional to velocity and the amount of powder behind the bullet) and to the type of bullet.  Some bullets, such as solids and full metal jackets, are designed to penetrate.  Others are designed to expand or fragment, which severely reduces penetration.  A small caliber full-metal-jacket will penetrate deeper than a larger caliber, hollow-point or ballistic tip.

Don't get hung up on getting the most powerful rifle unless you're going after elephant or cape buffalo.   Your friend's .308 Winchester packs plenty of punch and ammo is cheap.  Medium-bore magnum calibers are stronger, but you pay for it in greater recoil and generally costlier ammo.

Try a few rifles on for size at a gun dealer's.  We all have our preferences for different manufacturers and calibers, but a rifle that drives tacks off sandbags isn't worth much if it's not comfortable to handle and shoot in a field situation.

[shooter]

carl,
   Many of us have bought the new Stevens 200 bolt action.It comes in 10 calibers some of which are;22-250,7mm-08,308,30.06,270.The rifle sells for $259 in my neck of the woods.Then buy a $50 to $90 bushnell or simmons 3x9x40 scope and you got yourself a great shootin inexpensive rifle for deer/bear/varmits..i'd go with the 308 win.It has the best combination of power,bullet availability,bullet selection and still doesnt kick much.30.06 uses the same bullets and might even have more selection but it also kicks more .The 308 has about 85 or 90% of the power of the 30.06 in a smaller sized shell,hence smaller chamber,smaller rifle.
Shooter

[Ramrod]

It is darn hard to argue against a .308 as a first high-power rifle nowadays. Look at all the cheap surplus ammo out there. Practice is the key. I would say this, though. Buy the most rifle you can afford, and spend at least half as much (if you can't spend the same amount) on the scope. You won't be sorry. Trading up is what all the dealers expect you to do. You can beat them right from the git-go if you buy right in the first place.

[carl1864]

Thanks for the info, keep the opinions coming.  I don't mind if it has alot of kick, the 308 kick was no problem, I could take plenty more.  As long as the ammo is only slightly more than 308 ammo, I'd be willing to go up, but if its like twice as much, I'd prefer not.  I'm not using it for hunting or anything, I just want great penetration for blowing the smitherines out of things and shooting holes straight through trees, etc.

[NYH1]

I have a bunch of high powered rifles. One of which is a Winchester model 88 308 Win., shot two deer with it! I also have a 280 Rem., I shot one deer with that. I couldn't tell the difference in performance between the two.

I would definitely recommend either of these two outstanding cartridges. I would also recommend a 30-06 Spr. In fact if I was starting all over and had to buy MY FIRST deer/black bear rifle, I would buy a bolt action 30-06. Everyone has their own preference on which make of rifles they prefer. I really like Remington's model 700 (and 7, 7400 and 7600). Your best bet is to go to as many different gun shops as possible and look at and feel as many rifles as you can. See which ones feel the best to you and go from there. Good luck and let us know! :grin:

[Savage .250]

IMO............... The .308 is a good round and will certainly do the job but
  for me i`d take the 30-06.  Not being a big fan of the .308 it`s really not
  a hard decision.  

 " The best part of the hunt is not the harvest but in the experience."

[beemanbeme]

You have just GOT to go with the 30-06.  This is the cartridge's 100th birthday.  And it is the cartridge against which all others are compared.

[poncaguy]

Get a H&R Handi rifle in 45-70 if you really want to see some penetration and power. Cost around $200.......

[Big Paulie]

" I'm not using it for hunting or anything, I just want great penetration for blowing the smitherines out of things and shooting holes straight through trees, etc."

 IMHO, you guys are crazy for responding to this post.  Think about it.

[PA-Joe]

Having a powerful gun just for the sake of owning one is a waste of powder, bullets and trees. That's like owning an 18 wheeler just to drive around in. Get a nice 22 LR and learn how to pick the leaves off that tree.

[jgalar]

Buy a Mosin Nagant. The rifle will cost about $70, the ammo is cheap and power is between the 308 and 30-06. Would make a good tree killing rig.

[TNrifleman]

Big Paulie got it right...... :roll:

[safetysheriff]

the right bullet is what can make the .308 almost equal to the '06 as a deer or black bear caliber.    the .308 with a good handload or something like the Hornady Light Magnum will take Very Large deer at 300+ yds with no problem if the deer are hit properly.   Milo Hansen took that monster in Canada with a .308!

i agree with the .308 being cheaper to 'feed' -- which encourages practice, which makes for better long-range shooting if it's ever needed.     it also makes for better shooting where one has to 'thread the needle' in an area thick with vegetation.     i like the .270 and the '06 a bunch; but the .308 is probably the champ in terms of ammo price and decent power.

incidentally, any given scope will probably last longer on any given rifle that develops less recoil, which also makes the .308 more interesting than the '06 or a .300 magnum.    

believe me, it's mostly the bullet and proper placement that 'close the deal' when harvesting game.    you don't need a magnum for deer.....

good luck,

ss'

[jvs]

The other day I got a chance to shoot my friend's 308 rifle, I was AMAZED at the power and penetration this thing had.  We stacked up planks of wood and it shot through about 2 1/2 to 3 feet of wood before the bullet would stop.  Before that I had just shot .22's 9mm's, and 12 guages.  Anyways this makes me really want to go buy a high power rifle.  I was looking at a few different ones like a 300 , 30.06, and of course 308, I'm sure theres others.  I'm wondering, which is the most powerful type of rifle I can get?  I don't have a huge budget, I'd like to spend no more than $280-$500 for the gun, and I would hope that ammo is not too crazy expensive, maybe along the lines of how much the 308 ammo costs.  Any suggestions which caliber is strongest?

You might benefit more from a few courses for the proper use and handling of a firearm or find a mentor who can help you.

Normally a high powered rifle is purchased for the job for which you have intentions of use.  Using boards as a backstop is a questionable practice which can lead to ricochets and possible disaster down range.

Your thread asks about power, when in fact the real question I see is one of experience.   The safe handling and use of a firearm is of prime concern and since you now want a high powered rifle for plinking your liability now stretches to a few miles beyond the muzzle.

[Bart Solo]

Carl1864  
 
I have been thinking about this thread, and endorse everybody who,  like jvs, who recommends you find a mentor.  If you can't find a teacher I would recommend you take a hunter safety course.   In most states you will have to take one anyway.  
 
Firearms are not toys.   Instead firearms are tools.  They should always be treated with respect.  One mistake and somebody could die.  
 
A long time ago my father taught me about firearms.  He gave me some rules. He didn't give me all of the rules. Just some.  Let me share what he told me.  
 
1.  Treat every firearm as if it were loaded.  Even when it is empty, treat it as if it were  loaded. You develop good habits by assuming every firearm is loaded.      
 
2.  Never point a firearm at anyone you don't intend to shoot.    
 
3.  Never let your muzzle point in the direction of anyone or any animal you don't intend to shoot.  Don't hang around with anybody who does.  They can kill you.  
 
4.  Remember your rifle can shoot a lot farther than you can see.  Know your backstop.  If there is a housing development a mile the other side of where you are aiming, don't shoot.  
 
5.   Never carry a loaded gun over a fence.  My dad did that back in the 1930s and carried a bullet in his leg the rest of his life.  
 
6.   Never carry a loaded gun up a tree.  Before  getting into a tree stand  unload your rifle, and load it again when you are in the stand.  The official rules call for you to tie a rope to your rifle and lift it into the tree.  Good idea.

7.   Never put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot.  

8.   When somebody hands you a gun, check to see if it is loaded. Even if they tell you it is empty, check.

9     Practice, practice, practice.  Shoot as often as you can.  Become totally familar with your rifle.  My dad was a WWII vet and was a big one for practice and knowledge. A lot of WWII vets were the same way.  

10.   At the range follow the range rules to the letter. If a range master tells you to do something do it.  

11.  Never go shooting with somebody who isn't at least as safe as you are.  The unsafe guy usually shoots a buddy, not himself.

Are these all the rules?  Hell NO.  They aren't even a good start.  That is why you need to take a hunter safety course.  Learn  how many big game animals wear hunter orange.  

I know I sound pompous,  but this is serious stuff. Really serious stuff.  Your initial comment about shooting through trees really got me thinking.  Anybody can pull a trigger,  but only a few are true marksmen and real hunters.

[leverfan]

I just want great penetration for blowing the smitherines out of things and shooting holes straight through trees, etc.

Please don't shoot trees.  I've had to change a hell of a lot of band saw blades in my saw mill days when the teeth chipped on bullets that some dingus shot into the tree when it was still standing.  Changing saws is a pain in the @$$, it costs money and down time, and the teeth have to be replaced with fresh ones welded on.  It's not nearly as bad as hitting a rail road spike that some tree hugger put there to kill a logger or resaw operator, but it's still not fun.

We got a load of logs from the Fort Lewis area once, full of dang .308" fmj rounds from their M60s.  That was a load of wood that ended up costing the mill more than they made from it, that's for sure. :roll:

[rockbilly]

:roll: Please don't shoot too many of dem trees, we needs all da oxygen we can gets..............

Have you tried a slingshot?  Sounds like you need to try one, and master that, before purchasing a firearm.

[deerhunter10]

I THINK YOUR BUYING A HIGH POWER RIFLE FOR THE WRONG REASONS. MOST PEOPLE BUY A RIFLE TO HUNT OR BECOME A GOOD MARKSMAN, NOT TO BLOW THE HELL OUT OF TREES. GUYS LIKE YOU SCARE ME, YOU REALLY NEED TO TAKE A HUNTER SAFETY COURSE OR AS SOMEONE SAID, GET A MENTOR. YOU REALLY NEED TO KNOW WHAT THAT WEAPON CAN DO BEFORE YOU TOUCH IT. AS YOU CAN TELL THIS IS A GREAT FORUM WITH VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE SHOOTERS/HUNTERS AND MOST OF THEM HAVE SAID THE SAME THING ABOUT YOUR POST. NOT TO BE A SMART #$%, JUST THINK ABOUT BRO.

RC

[safetysheriff]

" I'm not using it for hunting or anything, I just want great penetration for blowing the smitherines out of things and shooting holes straight through trees, etc."

 IMHO, you guys are crazy for responding to this post.  Think about it.

i jumped the gun and responded to his first post before reading his second.

i admit that you are probably right.    he could well be an accident waiting to happen!

[mr.frosty]

wanna blow holes in something......join the army!
 you dont need a gun you need to learn what they can do first they are
tools, recreational equipment etc.
they are fun to use but are a NOT A TOY so learn the proper way to handle one.

[Coyote Hunter]

Thanks for the info, keep the opinions coming.  I don't mind if it has alot of kick, the 308 kick was no problem, I could take plenty more.  As long as the ammo is only slightly more than 308 ammo, I'd be willing to go up, but if its like twice as much, I'd prefer not.  I'm not using it for hunting or anything, I just want great penetration for blowing the smitherines out of things and shooting holes straight through trees, etc.

Carl1864 –

In my youth I spent a lot of time doing things that would land me in jail today – like building bombs and blowing them up.  While I don’t do that any more, I very much enjoy shooting “action targets” with my rifles.  The .50 caliber guys like to shoot propane tanks from 1000 yards, so I don’t much blame you for wanting a gun “for blowing the smitherines out of things and shooting holes straight through trees, etc.”  So I’ll provide a few suggestions, but first a few words of advice and caution:

1.   You say you’ve shot .22’s and shotguns, but if you have not had a safety class, take one.  The .22’s will carry a mile while a centerfire round can go three miles.  And whoever said that unsafe hunters/shooters tend to shoot someone else rather then themselves was 100% correct – do NOT hang out with people who demonstrate unsafe firearm handling.  Once a bullet leaves the muzzle it cannot be called back – there are no “do overs” in shooting accidents.

2.   The best things to blow up are water jugs, one at a time or lined up front to back.  Steel gongs make a great target if shot from 200 yards.  (DO NOT shoot steel from closer up unless you want to have ricochets surgically removed from your body - I speak from personal experience here.)  Clay pigeons (on an embankment) make very nice targets at 200 and 300 yards.  Do not shoot targets like glass or trees.  Shooting trees on public property is against the law every place I know of.  If a Forest Ranger finds you shooting trees, expect to lose your rifle and pay a hefty fine at a minimum.  If you must shoot a tree, make sure its on land you own.  Always pick up your brass (even .22’s), shotgun shells and targets.  In fact, pick up other trash, too – always leave the shooting area cleaner than you found it.  Be one of the good guys.

3.   The advice of others to get a mentor was excellent advice.  Perhaps the best way to find one is to join a shooting club.  Our club has all kinds of opportunities for young shooters and for various competitions will lend M1 Garand (.30-06) and AR-15 (.223) rifles to those who don’t have a suitable rifle.  There are also the black powder shoots, cowboy action, IPSC, .22, shotgun and other competitions.  We even have a guy that shoots black powder mortars.  Then there are the .50 caliber guys who are always eager to have new people shoot with them.  Lots of folks willing and eager to share their experience and equipment.  Our club even has a reloading group that gets together and let’s people reload with club equipment.

4.   If you are OK with the recoil of a .308, a .308 is a great place to start – lots of cheap ammo is available and the cartridge is an outstanding choice for targets and deer.  A .30-06 is another great choice and, with proper bullet selection, is suitable for even larger game like elk and moose.  The problem with the .30-06 is the additional recoil.  Since you are not hunting there is really no reason to put up with it, as it WILL decrease your shooting pleasure during long range sessions.  A .300 Mag in any flavor is going the wrong way in terms of recoil and ammo costs.  What I would suggest instead is a .223.  Ammo is as cheap as you will find, recoil is nil, and a .223 has plenty of reach.  Makes a great varmint round, too.  For sheer fun, don’t overlook the leveraction rifles like the Marlins in .357 and .44 Magnum.  These are pistol rounds that get added punch when fired from a carbine length barrel, but ammo is much less expensive than rifle ammo.  By the same token, the leveraction rifles in .30-30 are a lot of fun to shoot and ammo is pretty inexpensive.  My leveractions are by far the most fun long guns I have.  I handload and my .45-70 plinker loads run me about $2.50 a box of 20.  When I want to drill a hole through a line of water jugs or wrap a steel gong and its support chains around the supporting pole, I pull out the .45-70 and full-power loads with 460g hardcast bullets.

5.   If really cheap shooting is important and you like flash and bang and smoke, try black powder.  First time I squeezed the trigger on a black powder load I was hooked for life.  Get a .50 caliber and shoot round ball for fun.  When you get tired of that and really want to put a hurt on a line of water jugs, get a 485 grain bullet and use a big dose of powder.  You will know you pulled the trigger on a “real” load and, when the smoke clears, you’ll find all your jugs have blown up.

6.   Again, think safety first – ALL the time.  Choose your targets wisely and be responsible.  Pick up after yourself.  Be one of the good guys, not one of the slobs that gives hunters and shooters a bad name.

[gohip2000]

don't join the Army if you want to blow holes in things, or learn any thing for that matter.  the only thing the Army shoots at is paper, plastic pop up targets, and people.  if you want to do things like test penatration and effects on different materials, the army is not the way to go.  Plus the army doesn't truely teach fire arm safety.  they just say do what I say or else and don't explain why.  I would go with the 30-06.  its a little more powerful than the .308 and much cheaper than the 300 mags.  it is just as cheap as the .308.  the FMJ round will have the best penatration.  I know a 30-06 will penatrate 3/8in steel like a hot knife through butter with soft points.  
There is a safe way shoot up stuff like steel, tv's, ect...
First let everyone at the range know what you are going to do so they can choose to watch, leave or you can wait until they are done.
Make sure any metal you shoot is at a slight angle so if you get a richochette it will bounce off to the side away from the shooters.
I use to set a peice of steel at a certain angle and put a target off to the side of it and shoot the steel with a .22 then have it bounce off into the target off to the side.  kind of like shooting pool.  
SAFETY FIRST, fun second
An easy way to clean up is by laying what ever you are shooting at on a large sheet.  then when your done, you can fold up the sheet with the peice left over and throw it away, or dispose of it properly.  mud is pretty fun to shoot, it give a terminator effect and there is nothing to clean up but brass.  
definately take a course on safety, because if you do unsafe things at a range it could be someone's life or you will get the cops called on you.  
I had an experience a while back with a couple numb nut teens that brought their pistals to the range and were shooing everywhere, not communicating with anyone else on the range, and they even jammed a revolver, how?, I don't know; but when they were tring to un jam it they had it pointed at their faces, and the other people at the range. and were trying to act gansta or what ever.  so me and the other person at the range called the cops.  they were puting everyone's live in danger.  don't be like them,  their is a safe way to have fun, learn it follow it, and everyone will be happy and alive.

[1911crazy]

I like the 338win.mag. it has the muzzle energy of a 30-06 at 200yds. if were talking power thats it.  But the $35+ price tag of the ammo doesn't make it a plinker.  The Mossberg ATR in 30-06 is a great first rifle. I would suggest shooting targets, 1 gallon plastic milk jugs or empty soda cans.  Or dead rotten trees not living trees or even steel plates too.

When I was doing firewood I hit a pipe inside a tree with a brand new Husqvarna 2100 chainsaw it tore up my 404 saw chain.  I did change the cutters to new ones and repaired the chain. Another time i was running the log splitter and i hit an old rusted eye bolt in the wood.  It appeared to be a purple spot at first but then after splitting it into smaller pieces the eye bolt appeared.  I would hate to hit it with the 2100 husky chainsaw while cutting its 100cc's. Ouch if it kicked it has a brake and it saved my butt many times.

[corbanzo]

If you are looking for a first hi power rifle, go with a .30-06.  It does the job, ammo is relatively cheap, doesnt kick too hard, and there are a lot of different cartridges for it, more than pretty much any other rifle you are going to find.  If you want to go with lots of power, but still that same type of caliber, then a 300 remington ultra mag, or a 300 weatherby mag is a good choice.  If you are really talking about the most power, then it can just get rediculous.  I have a .458 lott, (elephant rifle), which tears holes in whatever is in front of you, and also, makes me feel small at 240lbs.  If you are looking for a little bit of rediculous, with some good uses, there are the .375's, such as H&H, weatherby, etc, and these put HOLES in things, and put those holes a long ways out.  I'm still saying though, for just starting out, go with a .30-06.  You can get varmit rounds for it, the big boys for moose and bear, elk are no problem.  gotta love that 06...

[nasem]

carl-

Here is a tip, go to
www.remington.com --> amunition --> balistics
and check out the balistics of ALL the amunition you want, it doesn't mattr if you want a 30-06 or a 308, a 300 wsm,  check out their balistics / speed / power and you'll know for your self

Personally, for "high power rifles" I LOVE THE 300 remington ultra magnum in 180 g (about 4200 jewls of energy) but ammo is not cheap at all, i usually buy a box of 20 for 39.99 (ouchhhhh)......compared if you go to walmart you can get a box of 30-06 180 grain sprinkfield for about 11.99 (big difference) and for the record 30-06 has about 2800 jewls of energy (which is plenty power for killing)

but seriously dude, go to remington website and view all the balistics of all the ammos you want,

hope this helps

[1911crazy]

If you get a 30-06 you could always shoot the cheaper russian made ammo too its made by Barnaul.  I picked up some a while back on sale for $1.99 a box.  I think that SOG(Southern Ohio Gun) has it in both FMJ and 168gr Soft point for $5.25 a box.  For blasting and plinkin you can't go wrong with it.

If you want another cheap rifle for plinkin at your local pits or range a Russian Mosin 7,62x54 would do too the ammo is just as cheap and the power is right there with the '06 but its under $100 for the rifle.

[myarmor]

Same here too, if it's bang and power at a low cost, then a good Mosin Nagant or Mauser will fill your needs fine. The 7.62x54R and the 8mm are excellent calibers, and capable of anything you need. Not to mention the cheapest to shoot there is, of course other than a 22. Even cheaper than a SKS or AK....if you just want a fun gun with decent power, then that might be a option too.

[UtahMike]

carl1864 --

Shooting a friends rifle and enjoying it is great. However it takes a great deal of practice along with the safety to get even half good at either big game hunting or just informal target shooting.
A .308 is a good gun to get started with but if you even a little gun shy, does the recoil bother you after awhile?  You might try something smaller, like a .223, .204, 22-250, etc. or if you want a big game rifle and don't reload, a 270win has about the same ballistics as the 30.06 or .308, especially with lighter bullets, (OK here comes the arguments) but considerably less recoil.
As with the rest of the fellows, buy the best rifle and optics (esp. optics) that you can afford and most of all have fun..........

[jro45]

The 30/06 is more powerful then the 308 and ammo is around the same price. Good shooting to you.