Author Topic: The Savage Horde (Read 3219 times)

Old Cane · « **on:** February 26, 2003, 07:28:50 AM »

Ok, how do you guys on this board feel about Savage rifles. I've had a couple and while they were inexpensive to buy they seemed to be a good rifle. Do I not expect enough or are they just a bargain in this day of $1000 not buying a nice factory rifle? Also, anybody tried one with their adjustable triggers?

Zachary · « **Reply #1 on:** February 26, 2003, 07:52:09 AM »

I'm quite certain that you will get more than a small amount of feedback. :wink:

I am not a Savage owner, nor a big fan, but no one can deny their consistent accuracy.

I am planning on purchasing a 223 or .22-250 in the Savage with the adjustable trigger.

Zachary

jhm · « **Reply #2 on:** February 26, 2003, 08:08:24 AM »

at present dont own any have handled several my son has one and likes it but I personaly dont care for feel of the rifle and that means alot to me its not a what does it look like thing like some have suggested its a feel thing and if it dont feel good I dont care how good others claim they shoot for them it wont shoot good for me because I wont feel comfortable with it, It was like trying to explain the howa 1500 to another poster here that rifle just feel good and it shoots good as far as I am concerned I would take a howa over the Savages of today, but others will say different, I like Remingtons,Rugers,Old Winchesters, Old Brownings, Old Savages, and a few of the newer ones.

JIM

jamie · « **Reply #3 on:** February 26, 2003, 09:03:28 AM »

I'm sitting this one out Zachery.

Old Cane · « **Reply #4 on:** February 26, 2003, 09:37:44 AM »

I guess I should clarify some. My goal is to get a Weatherby one of these days. I just like them. Today I can afford a Savage so if I get one, should I save up and get what I really want or get the Savage and be happy....or not happy.....just looking for opinions on Savage. I've had good luck with them but always sell in the end. Any real problems with them? Other good guns in the same price range? Seems like everything I want these days is over $1000 and I just can't turn loose of that much for a gun I only shoot 100 times a year.

wm.f. in fla. · « **Reply #5 on:** February 26, 2003, 09:41:49 AM »

i have a 110fp in 25/06. it's about 31/2 years old. i replaced the polymer stock with laminated and put a sss trigger in. the factory trigger was not bad. it adjusted down to 3lbs crisp and smooth. i wanted less. with 100gr nosler ballistic tips it shoots sub 1/2 minute groups consistantly. with 75gr v-max it shoots sub minute groups, both at 200yds. i don't think you can do much better than savage for out of the box accuracy. with a little tuning the ones i have seen and shot will shoot with anything.

jhm · « **Reply #6 on:** February 26, 2003, 10:18:23 AM »

Old Cane: A rifle is like alot of things in life cars, suits, wine, its hard for a person to be told what they would like, I never know until I try it, 1st ask yourself WHY did you get rid of the Savages that you owned in the past? Was it a caliber problem or did you just not like it, I would look at several guns at the local shops for fit more than looks as the way it fits you will make it shoot better than the way it looks on you, that costly rifle you mentioned in the begining is a nice looking rifle, and I have owned a couple but they never did make me real satisfied, You can get the rifle you want without spending $1000 on it just take your time and shop the used market after you decide which rifle fits you and the caliber that you want.

JIM

Old Cane · « **Reply #7 on:** February 26, 2003, 11:02:30 AM »

Yeah, it's been a little of everything, from "why do I have a rifle I barely shoot" to "you know, I'll sell it and I should have the money for something nicer in the fall" (never happens) to "I need the money and a buyer is standing there today. I can always get another tomorrow".

Nothing I can find fault with. Just wondering if they are considered by most of you to be good servicable guns, something you wouldn't dare own or "I love mine and wouldn't shoot anything else" type of opinions. I guess I'm opinion shopping today instead of rifle shopping.

Thanks so far.

jhm · « **Reply #8 on:** February 26, 2003, 11:39:45 AM »

Yep we have all been thru that, but dont get yourself stuck on a brand and get tunnel vision when shopping on that brand only, look around theres lots of quality rifles to choose from, hell at one time I thought the only rifle to own was a Remington (still feel that way but have added a few others though) You will find it its out there.

JIM

savageT · « **Reply #9 on:** February 26, 2003, 11:41:40 AM »

OK, Old Cane,

I waited for Zackary to say something and he hasn't......so far. Sooo I will. Why don't you look into a Tikka/Sako? I think it won't be easy finding one close by to pick up and fondle, but everyone seems to LOVE how they handle and workmanship is right up there. Please, don't bring up that Weatherby label on this forum. Knock my Savages, but please not that other "W"!
http://www.sako.fi/tikka/frontpage.html

Jim

Lawdog · « **Reply #10 on:** February 26, 2003, 01:28:23 PM »

Old Cane,

Although I don't own any newer Savage's I do own five older M99's but my son does own a new Savage, a Model 10FLP in .223 and it's the most accurate rifle, out of the box, I or any of the guys at our gun club has ever seen. A three shot group to sight in the scope measured under .25". Five shots only opened it up to under .30". I got nothing to match it and that alone makes my son's day. For me if Savage was to bring out one of there models in the new .223 WSSM I would have ordered one of them instead of the Coyote I did order. Get a Savage. Lawdog

NightFox · « **Reply #11 on:** February 26, 2003, 02:18:48 PM »

Ok boys you all know me. I live by the Savage's. I won't by another rifle unless it is a Savage. They may be cheap and ugly but boy will they shoot. You won't find a stock gun right off the shelf that will out shoot it garunteed. If you decide to get that Weatherby you might as well shoot yourself in the foot, because you aren't gonna hit anything much farther than that.

ReedG · « **Reply #12 on:** February 26, 2003, 02:23:53 PM »

Well, OldCane, it's pretty much them's got'em loves 'em; them that don't don't; just about everybody thinks they're "ugly".

I think they are extremely practical. But if you're looking for a Weatherby, you're probably not into practical.

If you don't like the Savage trigger, replacements are relatively inexpensive. If you tire of the caliber, the barrel can be changed, literally, in minutes. The actions are solid, barrels are just about all accurate.

I have a 112 BVSS (stainless varmint barrel, heavy laminated stock) in .223 Rem. First time with a variety of handloads, at 200 meters, had 3-shot groups of less than 1/2-inch. I've barely started to test loads (been below zero for weeks!) but at this early date, it is already one of the most accurate non-custom rifles I've seen.

Don't know what model of that "W" gun you're looking at, but you probably could get from 3 to 5 Savages for the price, and have quite a varied collection!!! Just kidding. If you like Weatherby's, then go for it. But I've seen a half-dozen or so of them at my local range and none have seemed to be great shooters. Of course, one of the problems is that most guys get the biggest magnum available, shoot it once or twice from the bench, and say "that's good enough".

Basically, rifles are like women: they're all good, it's just that some are better than others. The ones that are better is every man's opinion.

Old Cane · « **Reply #13 on:** February 26, 2003, 03:19:51 PM »

Thanks, all. That's exactly what I hoped for in feedback. I like the W's for the W calibers and what they do but of course if you don't hit what you shoot at, what's the point? I also like a monte carlo stock. It fits me so much better. I see Savage has one with that stock and I supposed I could always have one fitted. I have had my hands on a Tikka and like it very much. There are a few used ones for sale in this area every year so I do have a lot of options. Thanks again.

savageT · « **Reply #14 on:** February 26, 2003, 03:38:25 PM »

That's the ticket Old Cane! Buy at least one new Savage and throw in a Tikka for the dry days at the range or priarie-dog shoots. That'll keep all the ole' bastages happy.......He, He, He, He! (Jes don't mention that other "W" word, OK?)

Jim

Lawdog · « **Reply #15 on:** February 27, 2003, 12:02:21 PM »

Ok guys, what's so wrong about saying the word "WEATHERBY"? They're a great rifle and a great cartridge. Accurate. And that's guaranteed and not many manufactures will do that now a days to the inch and a half out of the box with factory ammo that Weatherby does. They also stand behind their product which is another "no-no" to some manufactures. Weatherby is a great firearm, it's just a tad expensive but not compared to those of Holland & Holland, John Rigby and others. I like Weatherby's so much I collect them, hunt with them and just plain enjoy shooting them. Lawdog

savageT · « **Reply #16 on:** February 27, 2003, 01:01:09 PM »

Lawdog,

You know we was just trying to deflect some o'that heat off'en us Savage fans who been feelin put-on lately! If'n you can afford the Big "W" and afford their hotsy-totsy belted cartridges, then you go right ahead an collect away! Just don't come a lookin for sympathy from us.......... the great "Un-Clean Savage Horde". Seriously, Nothin' wrong with 'em......just a little bit uppity for my tastes!

Old Cane · « **Reply #17 on:** February 27, 2003, 02:51:57 PM »

I sure didn't want to start anything here :grin: . That was a good point made earlier though about getting the biggest caliber you can and wanting to make a bench gun out of it. Not that some guys can't handle it. I'm sure some can. I'm big but a recoil silly. And I do think a 300 Weatherby is a bit much for whitetails. But, if I could only afford one (and that's the most likely) I'd like one that would be enough for elk too. I'd rather be over-gunned for one than under-gunned for the other. I'm sure I'd want a muzzle brake with it and that would send the horses inot the next county echoing off the hills.

deerhunter · « **Reply #18 on:** February 28, 2003, 02:41:29 AM »

I have a 110FPL Tactical in .3006, I wanted it as a heavy bench gun to use on targets at 200 and 300 yards, and I picked this caliber because I already reload for it.

It is a heavy rifle, about 9.5 pounds with the scope, so the recoil is a lot lighter than my deer rifles, you could shoot it all day off sand bags and not get beat up.

It is also a lot more accurate than I am. I can get 3/4" groups at 100 yards consistantly as long as I care to. I am bure a better shooter could do even better with it.

But everytime I plan on spending a day poking holes in targets I always end up picking off rocks off the different backstops at various ranges.

It is also great for making orange juice. You but the really big value bags of oranges and before you set up on the firing line, you drive down the backstop and log a bunch of oranges all over the place.

Then use the savage to vaporize them.

Zachary · « **Reply #19 on:** February 28, 2003, 04:18:09 AM »

Okay guys, here I go.... :eek:

I stated earlier that I would purchase one with the new triggers simply because, since so many people rave about their accuracy, and as I am a moderator, I feel somewhat compelled to purchase one. Of course I may change my find for the following reason:

Every time I pick up a Savage and work the bolt, the gun just feels SLOPPY.

There is absolutely no question that these guns are accurate, but it is also undeniable that there is absolutely NO QUALITY CONTROL in this product. It is also ironic how Savage barrels are button-rifled, yet achive great accuracy. In my opinion, Savages have cheap barrels, cheap actions, and cheap stocks, AND they are put together cheaply.

Now, I know that I am probably going to get a lot of heat from Savage owners and they will tell me that their Savage rifles are not cheap, have held up well for 20 or 30 or 100 years without fail, and have never shot groups bigger than 1/2 and inch at 100 yards. To these Savage owners I can only say that I have nothing but respect for their comments and experiences and that nothing I say is intended to cause any flames.

As an international lawyer, I encounter clients and attorneys from all over the world - England, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Luxembourg, Iceland, The Netherlands, Hungary, Greece, Russia, Hong Kong, Japan, etc. As such, it is very important for me to open my mind and LISTEN to what people have to say. Sometimes, million dollar deals break down because people just don't LISTEN to each other any more.

As such, although I don't personally like the feel and quality of Savages, I have LISTENED to Savage owners. Savage owners are a tight, unique group. They love their Savages more than their first born.

For me, it's mostly about quality. Yes, Savages shoot great, but I just don't like they way they feel or work in my hands. And there is nothing wrong with that. That's why everytime I go into a store to buy a Savage, I keep on changing my mind.

Do yourself a favor and take a look at the Tikkas.

Tikkas combine computer-aided machines WITH TIME HONORED HAND CRAFTMANSHIP. As I understand it, Tikka barrels are HAND-CROWNED. And the guns are assembled with human care that machines just can't do. It's the best of both worlds.

Granted, this extra human labor costs more, but it's a much better product. Sakos have even more human labor involved, and that's why, in part, they are even more expensive.

You see, you could buy a custom rifle for $2,000 to over $5,000. Why so expensive, because people take their time to put the gun together. Yes, it is done right, but time is money, and you pay for their time. Now, there is a point of diminishing returns. Sometimes, a $300 Savage can shoot just as well as a $3,000 custom rifle. But no one can deny that the custom rifle is of extremely high quality.

What I'm trying to say is there is a difference between accuracy and quality, and some people just want quality - even if accuracy is suffered a bit. While quality generally means you can achieve good accuracy, that's not always true - look at the Savages - not high quality, but great accuracy.

I love accuracy and quality. I own 14 rifles and I think that my Tikka has the best quality and has great accuracy. You can get a Savage, Remington, Winchetster, etc. and make it better - put on an after market trigger, have the barrel re-crowned, etc. This will cost you money. But the Tikka's already have fantastic adjustable triggers, and the barrels are already recrowned, and the guns are put together very well.

Bottom line - Ask yourself, what is more important? 1) accuracy, 2) quality, 3) or both?

If you don't mind the feel of the Savage, then buy it - you will be happy with it's accuracy.

If you, like me, don't like the feel of the Savage, then try out the Tikka - you will be happy with it's accuracy and quality.

Again, I hope that all of the Savage owners out there do not start attacking me. As an American, I have the right to free speech. On the other hand, as a moderator on GB's forum, I try to be as neutral as possible and not offend anyone. Just try to understand my message. Put in other words, let's all just LISTEN to each other. :wink:

Zachary

jhm · « **Reply #20 on:** February 28, 2003, 05:01:23 AM »

Zachary: For a minute there I thought you were going to tell us how you REALLY felt about the savage, I guess we will have to wait until a later post. But one thing I can agree with you and have stated in several post nobody can tell another man what rifle to buy its the FEEL of the rifle in the owners hands that matter, good post Zach.

JIM

grouper sandwich · « **Reply #21 on:** February 28, 2003, 05:39:34 AM »

I don't own a Savage, but I have considered one for my next rifle. But I do have a question for Zachary. Why is it, in your opinion, that Savages are so accurate even though the quality is low?

BTW, I picked up three rifles at the store the other day, Remington 710 (no comment!), Remington 700 ADL synthetic and a Savage 111 synthetic. To be honest with you, the Savage had the smoothest action, tightest trigger and felt the most comfortable of all three of the rifles. That said, after your post here, as well as your reply to my post on antoher thread, I'm going to give the Tikka a long hard look before purchasing another rifle. Thanks for sharing what you know.

Zachary · « **Reply #22 on:** February 28, 2003, 05:47:56 AM »

Quote from: grouper sandwich

Zachary. Why is it, in your opinion, that Savages are so accurate even though the quality is low?
Quote

Unfortunately, I don't know how a low quality rifle can shoot so well. It goes against common sense and practice. Oh well, I don't think that Savage owners care WHY their guns are accurate. It's kinda like when you go to the store to buy a shirt that costs $50, but the cashier rings it up as $10. You don't know why, but you don't care - you pay for it, shut up and go! :wink:

Zachary

grouper sandwich · « **Reply #23 on:** February 28, 2003, 05:56:12 AM »

Haha, nice, not so subtle, subtle jab there! :wink:

I get what you're saying though. Now I have an even bigger problem. I just looked at the CZ rifles and man, they are SWEET! This could take a while!

jamie · « **Reply #24 on:** February 28, 2003, 06:50:17 AM »

Zachery,

You are absolutely right about sloppy bolts on the Savages and their seemingly cheap build quality.

You are also dead on right that no one cares becuase they shoot so well for some unknwon reason.

Zachary · « **Reply #25 on:** February 28, 2003, 06:58:21 AM »

When people talk about Tikkas, they normally use CZs in the same sentence. The CZs are in the same class as the Tikkas.

The only thing is that, unlike the Tikkas, the CZs do not have a 1 MOA test before they leave the factory.

Zachary

NightFox · « **Reply #26 on:** February 28, 2003, 02:13:16 PM »

The Savage bolt feels so sloppy because it locks so tight. You know this by how the gun kicks. If the gun doesn't kick much that is because the blot doesn't lock very tight. Why do you think there is no recoil on an automatic? I have a Savage 30-06 and it will straight knock your arm off. My dad has the Remington 30-06 and my little 8 year old cousin shoots it all the time. With the Savage who cares if the bolt is sloppy. You won't have to put but one bullet in you gun when you go in the woods anyway. One shot will do the trick.

jhm · « **Reply #27 on:** February 28, 2003, 02:41:36 PM »

well I guess I have heard it all so thats why those savages kick so hard. :-D JIM

NightFox · « **Reply #28 on:** February 28, 2003, 03:25:15 PM »

Well Jim you bring whatever gun you want and I'll shoot my Savage 22-250 and we'll see who shoots better. I will have to worn you though that my 250 is deadly on groundhogs up to 800yds. If you have a gun that can match that you come on over.

acearch72 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 28, 2003, 03:38:33 PM »

Well, my $.02.

I have a Kleingunther K15 and the bolt is so smooth that all you have to do is sort of tip the rifle down by 1 end and the bolt slides open/closed. The trigger is a crisp 2#.

I have a Savage and the bolt does not work well at all. The trigger is crisp but at 4# and that's as light as I can get it.

But they both lock tightly closed and shoot a bullet when I pull the trigger. They both shoot less than 1/2" MOA.

I paid $2500.00 for the K15 22 years ago.

I paid $489.00 for the Savage Lazzeroni 6 months ago.

I don't care how smooth the K15 bolt is or how sloppy the Savage bolt is, they both shoot great and as long as I hold up my end they kill what I shoot at.

I really hate to take the K15 out into the rain and snow and mud. I could care less about taking the Savage into the rain and snow and mud.

Which is the BETTER gun? There's no question the K15 is the better made gun, but both will do what I ask of them equally well. Is that smoother bolt and custom wood and 2# trigger, etc, , , , worth the $2000.00 difference?

Actually, I sort of wish I had my $2500.00 back.