Is your primer wad staying put

[JCP]

Today my oldest son suspected that the primer wad might not stay where it should and it turned out he was right. The wad we are using are news print cut with a note book punch which is small but covers the hole and can't move sideways enough to uncover it. Today he left out the primer and dropped a charge of 2f through a 30" drop tube and 3 out of 4 times the wad bounced up out of the way and powder got under it. I guess we need a larger wad. Just thought I'd throw this at you guys because you may be having the same problem without ever knowing it.

[Cottonwood]

Gotta ask, why are you using a primer wad?  I've never used them and have never had any problems.

[leverfan]

I"ve never even heard of putting a wad between the primer and the powder.  Between powder and bullet, yes, but not between primer and powder.  In fact, it sounds like something I wouldn't want to try.  Why are you doing it?

[JCP]

A lot of black powder shooters do it. It's to keep maybe just one grain of powder out of the flash hole. Some say it works some say no difference.

Have you read any of Paul Matthews books? He speaks of it on several occasions. He even placed a piece of tin foil over the primer hole and then put in the primer, I don't like that idea at all because it will still let the powder obstruct the flash hole.

It sure would be better without it if only part of them are over the flash hole.

[Ray Newman]

An over the primer wad isn't new. I try to read match results & equipment usage reports & over the last few years, some Shooters have reported an increase in accuracy; others no improvement.

I think this started--or came to life again--when some Shooters tried lge. pistol primers to soften the blow  of the BP ignition & retard the movement of the bullet until the powder completely ignited.  From what I’ve read, tests show that a some primers will move the bullet forward before there is a complete powder burn & this leads to increased fouling. Some Shooters experienced problems w/ the lge. pistol primers in lge. primer rifle brass, so an over the primer wad was tried.

As JCP mentioned, Paul Matthews in one of his books really started the ball rolling on it.

A wad cut from newsprint or some light weight paper will keep the powder granules off the primer & the flame of the primer will burn a hole thru the wad.

As JCP noticed, a Shooter will need a primer wad of lge. enough dia. to keep it centered on the web of the case & over the primer pocket. Probably will be easier to seat a primer wad in straight case than a bottle neck.

I have never loaded a primer wad, but I‘ve known a few successful Shooters who have. I think it’s one of these BPCR reloading components that a Shooter might need to tinker w/  to obtain what Ned Roberts would claim as “Gilt Edge Accuracy” from a BPCR....

[zrifleman]

Since blackpowder ignites easily and rapidly and most load it by volume with varying degrees of compression, I very seriously doubt the value of the over the primer wad and the effect of that one imaginary grain of powder in the flash hole. I would use duplex loads 10% by volume to improve accuracy--if allowed. Paul Mattews book is entertaining and has some good tidbits of info--but it's not the gospel.

[rk4570]

Ive been using a over the primer wad the last year in my 45-70. I think it does a lot for the load when shooting over the cronograph ( Very Low #s)
but it hasnt done much for my Sillywet scores!

I dont put the wad IN the case, but I put it in my priming tool and the primer cuts it while going into the primer pocket. I use newspaper cut with a 45 cal wad punch. Ive heard of others trying other types of paper, even cigarette rolling paper, but I cant comment on them! :eek:

[zrifleman]

low #'s occur without over primer wad. Prime an empty shell and rest the muzzle  on your foot or put your finger on the end of the barrel and fire it. You won't do it again--it feels like you hit your toe or finger with a hammer. My point is a grain or two of powder in the flash hole makes no difference. Better to ignite powder than paper.

[ShortStake]

Gents and Madams,

Rather then debate the merits/demerits of paper primer wads, will instead try to answer the initial question.

One method of keeping a paper primer wad in place is to insert same into the case prior to any priming.  This eliminates the trapped air problem below the paper primer wad that may cause the initial question.

If the paper primer wad is for use in a .45 caliber case, try using a .40 caliber wad.

[Gunny]

zrifleman,

One of the places this under powder wad got started was 5 years ago Steve Garbe wrote an articial for his magizine the Black Powder Cartridge News about this very subject. My memory fails me here and i do not remember Garbes results with his testing of this wad but i think they where positive. Right about that time I was starting load workup for a new rifle and a soon to be new Silhouette season. I was working with all available powders that I could get at the time. Goex, Swiss, Elephant and RHK or what ever in the heck it was. I tried every possible combination i could find of components, brass, primers, and any wad i could come up with. The one very uniform aspect of this testing was that "IN EVERY CASE" under powder or over primer wads reduced the ES of each and every load I worked up, Every Time!!

The Swiss load I ended up shooting to this day as my Silhouette load shot me into Master Class in the first three matches of that next year. That load without the over primer wads had an ES of 18 fps with the over primer wads the ES was lowered to 4 fps. That spread is for a 15 shot group. So as loudly as you protest that they don't make any difference in your two post, you simple are mistaken. They are for sure doing something.


Gunny