S&W 500 in a Marlin Guide Gun?

[Zachary]

I understand that some people, and perhaps rightfully so, have strong feelings against Smith & Wesson as a result from an existing agreement that is lingering around D.C.  The purpose of this post is not to spark another S&W debate, but rather to indulge in a related, yet at the same time separate, matter.

Specifically, regardless whether or not someone is a Smith & Wesson advocate or opposer, the ammo is made by Cor-Bon.  As such, I wouldn't think that those opposed to Smith & Wesson would not object to the round itself being chambered in other non-S&W guns.

Accordingly, my question is simply this: would any of you be interested if Marlin chambered it's guide gun, or any other lever-action rifle, to the S&W 500 chambering?  I know that many people were interested in a .454 Casull chambering, but Marlin never did it, or at least not yet.  Would you guys like it in the .500?  What would you use it for?  I think that I would get it and use it for hogs.  I think that it would be almost ideal for this purpose.  

What do you guys think?

Zachary

[Advocate]

I am intrigued by the idea of the .500 S&W in a rifle. Hopefullly Marlin, Winchester and others will get on the band wagon. (Hopefully, they will get the  proper  rate of twist so that the heavier bullets will be properly stabilized.)   I would love to play with this round in a  lever action carbine.  I have no interest in a .500 caliber handgun by S&W or anyone else.  A  juicy little LA carbine, however, is another matter.

How about an NEF Handi-Rifle? What could do more to stimulate demand for this new caliber than an affordable, functional little SS that is within the budget of just about anyone?    

As far as ill feelings toward S&W, as I understand it, their management has changed.  Even so, S&W is an important pillar in the firearms industy and you  don't thoughtlessly yank away a pillar that big without disastrous consequences.  To the extent that S&W continues to  create innovative new products it should be supported and past grudges should be set aside.

Even if you hate S&W, look at the excitement generated by the talk of its new round. I haven't seen it or even read about it yet, but I'm excited about the idea of getting one in a Marlin carbine or an NEF Handi Rifle.  S&W's new caliber will benefit many players in the shooting industry and will create demand for other such products as components, dies, bullets, etc.  It will create new choices for  shooters and the industry that serves us...a good thing.

[Dutch4122]

I agree with Advocate.  The management at S&W has changed and I believe that they are also under new ownership.  In other words, the sellouts are supposed to be gone.  Fair enough.  I'll look at their products again.  I just hope (for their sake) that neither they or any other firearms manufacturer ever gets into such a slimey deal again.  The "buycott" of their products obviously worked and we got the message across loud and clear.

Now, on to a more pleasant subject.  As far as the .500 in a Levergun, bring it on!  The Levergun market was just plain stagnant for to long and has suffered too many setbacks with calibers and models discontinued.  I've been happy the last few years to see the increase in the amount of offerings from Marlin.  I hope that the others continue to follow suit.

[Robert]

I would want to see some ballistics.  I havent followed this new one that much, so I would want to compare trajectory, balistics and knock-down power compared to the .444 and 45-70.  Just because it is new and bigger, dosent make it better for a rifle.  Just for an example the 375 JDJ. The tests I have done with bulletts show that the 220 gr flat nose bullets have better penetration than the 260's softpoints at shorter ranges, and reach out easily past 300 yds whereas the 260's are about worthless when they get past 200.  And  the 358 JDJ will outperform the 375 with bullet performance. (according to some sources)

[Zachary]

I would want to see some ballistics...The tests I have done with bulletts show that the 220 gr flat nose bullets have better penetration than the 260's softpoints at shorter ranges, and reach out easily past 300 yds whereas the 260's are about worthless when they get past 200.)

[emphasis added]

300 yards?  I'm not looking, nor expecting, a .S&W 500 lever action rifle to be a 300 yard gun.  This would be a strictly 150 yard gun max - like the .30-30, except with a heck of a lot more punch!  Personally, I would use it for big hogs well within 100 yards - probably closer to 50 yards.  But I bet that it could be used on Elk and Moose to within 150 yards or so.

Zachary

[minker]

i liked the idea of a lever action  .480 ruger, i like the idea of a .500 s&w much ,much more !!  mark

[Graybeard]

Oh how quickly some forget their enemies. I guess you'll be ready to vote in Gore the Bore or Billary next.

S&W MUST DIE!

GB

[thomas]

I would love to see a lever action built on the 500 S&W.
What a match for a SRH in 500 S&W
Tom

[Lloyd Smale]

not much chance when you cant even get them to chamber the .480 or .475

[Zachary]

GB,

I know that many people are angry with S&W, and that's why I prefaced my post with an expectation that, since the ammo comes from Cor-Bon and thus has nothing to do with S&W, people wouldn't mind using another non-S&W gun chambered in the .500.  Now, if S&W also made the ammo, then I would understand.  I would think that, if this load really becomes popular, then other ammo makers would load it as well.  At that point, or perhaps even sooner, I would think that Marlin and/or Winchester would load it in their lever-action rifles.  Let me put it this way, you and I are both Remington 700 fans.  If Remington came out with a new lever-action rifle chambered in the .500, and if Cor-Bon and/or Remington and/or Winchester, etc. made ammo for it, would you use it?

I truly understand, and appreciate, your position with regard to S&W - you know that :wink: , but I intended this post to receive specific feedback regarding the round in non-S&W guns.  Would you simply never use this round in ANY gun simply because the ammo has a .500 S&W headstamp on it?  If yes, then that's okay  :grin: but I was just curious.

Thanks.

Zachary

[Zachary]

Lloyd,

I understand your point and agree with you.  I must admit, however, that this new .500 sounds interesting.  I think that it MIGHT set a SPARK in the industry or simply FLOP.  IF it works out, then MAYBE Marlin might chamber it in their lever-actions (but they would probably have to make it stronger to handle the heavy pressures).

In any event, although I'm hopeful, like you, I'm not holding my breath. :wink:

Zachary

[minker]

greybeard and others, i have no use for s&w either, when they pulled the stunts they did, i sold a considerable collection of there handguns, never to own another. but as others have said, the .500 cartridge is in there name only and corbons making the ammo and someone else would be making the lever action i'd want. i'd prefer a lever action .50/110 express, but those are high dollar guns for the originals and i dont think any of the repro-1886's will ever be chambered in such. and as someone said, they still aint brought out the .480 ruger chambered lever guns advertized ,so the chances arent very good.  mark

[Robert]

...and keeping us on track.  I would imagine the new line is a ploy to get back in everyones good graces, but I dont see anything wrong with stealing it from them.

[Sean]

I voted No. It has nothing to do with with S&W as a company but what would I gain over my 45-70? I see no need for it so why bother. I won't buy one of the handguns so why would I need the companion lever and most any of my other rifles will out perform this round. Just my opinion. Sean

[jhm]

I only voted maybe as the type of hunting that I do doesnt require that caliber, and I am certain I wont be shooting a hand gun of that caliber be it a S&W or any other brand.  And back to S&W since they showed their a$$ I havent purchased any new ones but I certainly wouldnt sell the ones I already had to prove a point , thats like cutting off your nose to spite your face, you have already spent the money S&W already cashed the check, just dont write anymore.   JIM

[ButlerFord45]

I voted no.  Too much action for too little cartridge.  Now if ya had asked about an 1894 marlin action with this round I'd might have had to vote differently.

[Buckeye]

I voted "yes"      Of coarse i'd like to have a 500 S&W Wesson in a gg.   I'd rather have a 16" non-ported barrel,  and in 1894 action W/ slender forarm. It would be a little beast!

[John A]

I can understand you all being mad at S&W of old when they were owned by a British company that did not or does not understand the rights of free Americans to own guns, but understand the british don't own S&W anymore, S&W got out from under the bad agreement they made with the anti gun clinton adminatration and they still make some of the finest revolvers the average man can buy! What alot of people don't know is that Bill Ruger also made some bad mistakes with the goverment that not alot of folks are aware of! Did you know that Bill was one of the guys behind the goverment going after the cheap so called saturday night specials that we use to hear so much about! Thats right Bill pulled political strings to get them pulled off the market, not because he was anti gun but because it gave him a bigger market share. Now back to the 500 S&W, I really don't believe in these so called hand canons as I don't believe the average guy can control them, and there just isn't that many grizzlies hiding behind every bush.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I would vote no.

The super-magnum craze is getting out of hand to me.  

The thing that attracts me to pistol-chambered leverguns is the option of shooting the same cartridge in a pistol.  You could then feasably carry BOTH.

But with these .454's, .480s, and now .500's the size and mass of the handgun is getting to the point that you'll end up putting the LEVERGUN in a holster and carry the revolver on a SLING!!

To me the .357's, .45 Colts, and maybe .44 mags make the most sense as far as handgun cartridges in a lever action.  The handguns won't be so massive.  The cartridges will be tolerable when shot from the handgun, and mild when shot from the lever gun.

If I want 2600 ft-lbs at the muzzle I'll shoot a long rifle cartridge.

[Buckeye]

What is the over action length of a 1894 Marlin ? Can it hold a .500 S&W ?

[Lloyd Smale]

it wouldnt fit in a 94 so a 500 line would be better there and if you have to use the bigger action why not go with something like the 50 alaskan which would be substantialy more powerfull. Nope it wouldnt be for me.

[coug2wolfs]

I voted NO as well, but admit, it was not because of S&W. Whole new crew and owners down there now.  Fair is fair. There are a lot of good people who work at Smith that did NOT go along with what the company mandate was.  In the end, the Brits ate their collective shorts and I just LOVE that part of the story.  :lol:

This penchant we have for shooting handgun rounds out of rifles, I don't get it?  We have the developers on the playing field with fat and short super zappers that are sure to kill off the belted magnums and yet we swoon over revolver rounds in rifles.

Out of em all, the 454 casull does 1700 fps out of a handgun, is accurate as all getout, and to me, this would seem THE round if we had to do it in a rifle. But then why bother when you can run 300 grain Nosler Partitions out of a 45-70 at better than 2400 fps and safely??

Admittedly, I am old and cantankerous, but are we looking for magic rounds that will make wicked killers of us all regardless of our abilities?

I don't know about you guys, but in this lousy economy I'm cuttin corners like a lot of folks I know.   When I go to Wally World and can buy Winchester or Remington ammo for the 30-06 for $10.97 a box in 165 grain or 180 grain bullets I am rapidly falling in love with the 30-06.  I believe the 308 factory stuff is $2.00 a box more.  At that price, even if you reload, brass alone will run ya near as much!

Even so, I keep lookin at the hole in the end of the 45-70 barrel, a great comfort to me  :lol:

Then I look at the hole in the -06 barrel and say "I just dunno, seems AWFUL SMALL"   I gotta wean myself off the cannons on account of I blew out my shoulder, and at $23 a pound for powder these days I gotta back off shootin paper.

Just my 2 cents worth on the matter  

[Buckeye]

One reason to have the 500 S&W in a levergun is that it will be throwing a 50cal. 440 grain slug right at 2000 to 2100 fps.  out of a 20in. barrel !    Not bad for a pistol round.
 IT is a he.. heck of a round!
 I "m a 45/70 GG fan I got mine when they first come out.
 The 50 Alaskan is to much gun for my parts and an exspenive project .
But the 500 would be a fun gun and a bear & hog buster for sure.

[Enforcer]

One reason to have the 500 S&W in a levergun is that it will be throwing a 50cal. 440 grain slug right at 2000 to 2100 fps.  out of a 20in. barrel !    Not bad for a pistol round.
 IT is a he.. heck of a round!
 I "m a 45/70 GG fan I got mine when they first come out.
 The 50 Alaskan is to much gun for my parts and an exspenive project .
But the 500 would be a fun gun and a bear & hog buster for sure.

first based on 500S&W velocity in a handgun about 1625fps with 440gr.You are looking at about 1925fps from a 20in and about 1835fps from 16.5 in.So its not the that hard a hitter.Getting smoked by the 450 Alaskan,50 Alaskan,and 510 Kodiak Express.

[Buckeye]

Those are wildcat cartridges!
But 50 Alaskan would be be nice !  
 But a 440gr. 50cal. bullet moving @  1925fps. is a hard hitter in my book!
  I think it will Fly a little faster than 1925fps.

[Buckeye]

Enforcer,    500S&W 50 Cal. 440 Gr. Bullet @ 1925fps   Compared to a .458  (45/70)    405gr.Bullet @ 1850 fps.  ( My own Handload)  !
 Hey you"ll be hard pressed to find a bigger 45/70 fan than me but it looks like the  hard hitting 500S&W is going to give the ole 45/70 a run for its money ! But it may never be in a lever gun!

[Enforcer]

Enforcer,    500S&W 50 Cal. 440 Gr. Bullet @ 1925fps   Compared to a .458  (45/70)    405gr.Bullet @ 1850 fps.  ( My own Handload)  !
 Hey you"ll be hard pressed to find a bigger 45/70 fan than me but it looks like the  hard hitting 500S&W is going to give the ole 45/70 a run for its money ! But it may never be in a lever gun!

405gr in 45/70 are getting over 2100fps .Check Jackfish on Marlin Talk

[Enforcer]

Those are wildcat cartridges!
But 50 Alaskan would be be nice !  
 But a 440gr. 50cal. bullet moving @  1925fps. is a hard hitter in my book!
  I think it will Fly a little faster than 1925fps.

How can it get more than 1925fps.It hasn't got anything for case capacity with a COL 2.10,verus 45/70 with COL 2.55.It isn't any wider and certainly is shorter.Just a thought,I bet if it does come out in a rifle it won't even make 1900fps.

[Buckeye]

We will not know fps of 500S&W out of a rifle barrel until we get a chance to clock it, but I guessamate 300 to 350 fps faster .
I can"t get 2100 out of my 18.5 in gg barrel with a 405gr.er,but Jackfish may, I"m not dout"in it.
                 still a .458  405gr. at 2100fps. still has got nuthin on a .50 440gr. @ 1950  Sorry but 500 S&W wins agsin ,hands down.
                  I think I just sinned! :twisted:

[Enforcer]

We will not know fps of 500S&W out of a rifle barrel until we get a chance to clock it, but I guessamate 300 to 350 fps faster .
I can"t get 2100 out of my 18.5 in gg barrel with a 405gr.er,but Jackfish may, I"m not dout"in it.
                 still a .458  405gr. at 2100fps. still has got nuthin on a .50 440gr. @ 1950  Sorry but 500 S&W wins agsin ,hands down.
                  I think I just sinned! :twisted:

I didn't say Jackfish got over 2100fps out of 18.5.But he does get 2150fps out of 22in barrel with 405gr.Most guys over at Marlin guessamate in the mid 1850fps area for the 500 S&W.It has not the case capacity to do much more.but as you say this is just guessing,until chronoed by someone out of a rifle.Which no one is even making or talking of making as of yet!