Author Topic: 1000 yard peep site trouble. (Read 768 times)

Will52100 · « **on:** August 05, 2005, 05:33:34 PM »

I just recently got to try my 45-70 out on steel targets and was a little dismayed to find that at maximum elevation I couldn't see the front site through the peep without leaning the site forward out of the detent. I wonder if other sites have a differant detent or if there's some I can do to "fix" this? What do you all do?

Oh and after 70 rounds in a T shirt I think I need something to tame the recoil a little better than a curved steel but plate. Nice bruise on the old sholder!

I'm shooting a Uberti 1885 high wall with 34" barrel and tange peep sight.

Thanks

Ray Newman · « **Reply #1 on:** August 05, 2005, 06:33:04 PM »

When you say "peep sight" are you referring to tang sights such as the Lyman #1 or the Marble's peep- tang sights (http://www.marblesoutdoors.com/sights/peep.html) or do you mean the traditional vernier tang sight such as those made by MVA (http://www.montanavintagearms.com/vernier.html)?

Do you have any idea as to the make & model # of the sight that is now on your rifle?

Right off the bat, my initial reaction--based upon your scenario-- is that the staff on your sight is too short to provide enough elevation for shooting to 1000yds.

If that is the case & the staff is too short, you: (a) could find someone to build a higher rear sight base; (b) install a lower front sight; or (c) buy a long range rear sight.

The detent is there to keep the sight staff @ a right angle to the bore. The sight base & the detent is unique to each rifle as to some extent, each rifle has a different angle on the tang/pistol grip. If you override the detent, you run the risk of not being able to accurately return the sight to the previous override setting for subsequent shots.

I always advise a Shooter to buy a Long Range sight so as to have the ability to shoot 1000+ yds should the opportunity arise. There nothing worse than having to little staff for the job hand....

Will52100 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 06, 2005, 03:11:00 AM »

The staff is fine, it's a long range Pedersolie(spelling?) with left right windage and an ajustable apature disk. Vernier tange mounted.

The site I believe from shooting will max out at around 1200 yards elevation. The problem is that the peep sight has a half inch or so of tube and at extream elevation you can no longer see the front sight,

_________________________rear sight plain,

+ front sight.

I can see the front sight if I tilt the staff forward just a bit, but without a detent I cant get repeatable results.

Thanks,

Will

ribbonstone · « **Reply #3 on:** August 06, 2005, 05:06:25 AM »

What I think he was saying is that as the sight rises, the angle from the front sight to the apature's hole becomes more and more of an oblique angle...reiar sight rises straignt up, so you have to look thorugh the tiny hole at an angle to see the front sight.

Is possible, with that particular sight, that you are getting interfearnece from the deep recess to the hole. Apature has a long screw shank that goes into the staff...it's pretty small diameter...and it's possible that the angle from the tiny hole to the fornt sight is partly blocked by the end of that long recess. It's like looking through a long tube at an angle...eventually you'll get to an angle that just lets you see the inside of the tube (tube being the long shank of the apature disc). Making the recess shorter (but still giving full thread engagment) might clear the path.

Would guess that the rear sight may not be mounted quite right (or the detent is placed so that it does raise the staff at a true 90degree angle to the barrel)....if mounted with a bit of backwards slant, you'd get the abvoe blockage problem earlier in the staff's elevation. Could check for ture 90degrees with a ture right angle when detented.

If I remeber that sight right, there is a flat spring with a crease in it in the base of that sight...the crease acting as the detent. Can try dissassembly and flipping that flat spring around...which will change the angle of detent. MAy make it worse, may make it better, but it doesn't require any modifications to try it.

Ahve ground that flat spring's end, making it loose in it's seat, and found the true 90 degree stance for some odd ball rifles...once found, have to make a filler (welding prefered) in the spring's recess so it's not loose, butsets that flat spring to detent at the right spot.

Another way is to shim the mount until you get that 90degree stance..this is easier, can be fillded with with differnt thicknesses, and can be made pretty unobtrusive if you try.

OR

Filing the base to a new angle...which sounds easy, but getitng it countoured to match the seating spot is a lot harder than it seems.

powderburner · « **Reply #4 on:** August 06, 2005, 07:51:06 AM »

This is a common occurance with a long tang sight . it is caused by changeing the angle you look through the rear aperature .if you raise your hread off the stock a lot of times it clears up but the common fix is to just tip the sight foreward til it clears up .it only takes a degree or two .
if you make a new cut and reset the sight to be clear at 1000 you will have a problem with the shorter range settings .this is what I have found with the varoious sights I have used ............. Dean

Ray Newman · « **Reply #5 on:** August 06, 2005, 08:28:54 AM »

If the problem is a interpreted by Powderburner & ribbonstone, would it be 1st advisable to level the rifle, then flip up the sight @ see if it @ 90 degrees to the bore?

I wonder if a very thin brass shim under the forward part of the base would put the staff @ 90 degrees to the bore?

Ive seen some Shooters apply a strip of Scotch tape--one layer @ a time-- to accomplish the same.

For all we know, even @ shorter distances, the sight staff may not be square to the bore?

Powderburner, Ive read of Shooters advising to tilt the staff forward to obtain to correct picture. But how does the Shooter then return the sight to the same setting for subsequent shots? Such a practice seem to defeat the purpose of the detent?....

Will52100 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 06, 2005, 09:35:59 AM »

Thanks guys, I don't know why it didn't occure to me before, the leaf spring that holds the staff in the verticle position is slotted for a little ajustment. A minnit with a screw driver and the staff is in a position that works for any increment.

Don't know why this didn't occure to me at the range!? Maybe shoulder was hurting to bad.

Thanks again,

Will

powderburner · « **Reply #7 on:** August 06, 2005, 12:49:49 PM »

Will I'm glad you got it fixed

Ray when I was doing it I would tip up the sight until it just broke the notch using my thumb while I was getting a sight picture .this would help clear up the target. most of my problem came from improper head placement and bad glasses and a very small hole for the eyecup.

it is true that the sight needs to be 90 degrees to the bore all the way up and as will states some sights have some adjustment in them .

the amt of tilt given to the sight staff didnt seem to matter as I missed most times anyway but it did let me see the target .which gave me the confidence to at least keep shooting. and I did miss consistantly.

The new Heilman sights I have have a larger opening for the eyecup which I feel also contributes to a clearer and less angled view of the front sight aperature. a 12 -32 threaded hole as compared to a 4-30 tapped hole, not exactly positive on the pitch but do know it was a #4 screw size a lot more area to see through . I hope this clears up my earlier post .

Will52100 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 06, 2005, 06:33:09 PM »

One of the best investments for my sights was an ajustable apature, I think it has about 9 differant holes to look through.

I still can't beleive that I didn't think of slidding the spring back at the range. Oh well, there's next time!

iowa · « **Reply #9 on:** August 07, 2005, 07:42:27 AM »

Wil52100: You corrected your sight exactly the proper way and as long as you did not go overboard with too much forward cant it will work just fine for the closer distances. Now as to the recoil with the creseant butt plate: I would suggest you order a slip on leather lace on butt pad, the lace up kind from Cabellas. (Action Kick Killer brand) They look good and work fine. You will need to make a spacer prefferably out of wood to fill the cresent shape and make it into a shotgun style (flat butt) end covered by the lace on pad. You do not need to remove the end plate, just make the appropiate filler piece to square off the end. This is simple and will easily solve the recoil problem while not detracting from the looks of the rifle. Because of the padding on the slip on pad you will however end up with about 3/8" longer lenght of pull. Best regards steve witt

Will52100 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 07, 2005, 11:11:11 AM »

Thanks iowa, I was debating on something like that or a past shoulder pad. Normaly I shoot off cross sticks and don't have too much trouble. This time was off a bench rest and let the cresent catch me a little down the shoulder from where it should have been. Didn't take long for flinching to be a problem.

hiram · « **Reply #11 on:** August 07, 2005, 01:58:38 PM »

check this out--

This may help--its a terrific sight

http://longrangebpcr.com/Staff.htm

iowa · « **Reply #12 on:** August 07, 2005, 05:27:25 PM »

Will52100: If you ever intend to shoot the 800 to 1000 ranges you will really want to do it or at least try it prone, as it is the most stable. The cresent butt will really hurt you in this position. This is why I would still suggest you square off the butt of your rifle. Even a PAST pad will not tame a cresent butt in the prone position very well. Best regards steve witt

Will52100 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 07, 2005, 05:36:38 PM »

Thanks, that's what I needed to know, I've never been a big fan of cresent buts or of shoulder padding.