Author Topic: winchester 70 poor accuracy (Read 1394 times)

gunpilot · « **on:** June 02, 2005, 11:11:36 AM »

I just took my new winchester model 70 stainless in 6.5 x 55 to the range today, and was extremely disappointed at the 3 inch plus groups at 100 yards. The trigger pull is extremely heavy, but I don't think that is the only problem. I tried federal and nitrex ammo. both performed very poorly. Should I get a trigger job, send the gun back to winchester or do you have any suggestions? disappointed shooter

BigBrass · « **Reply #1 on:** June 02, 2005, 12:30:16 PM »

What kind of groups are you capable of shooting with other bolt-action rifles?

Suggestions:

If you don't handload, try a couple of ther types of ammo.

Get the rifle epoxy bedded and float the barrel, along with a trigger adjustment.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #2 on:** June 02, 2005, 12:50:32 PM »

I know that in today's world 3 inch groups are not considered good, and we all expect much better. By any chance, did you buy your ammo from Walmart?

I rarely shoot a gun out of the box. I now do most of my glass bedding and free floating barrels and usually try to work my own triggers before taking the gun to the range. I usually have good result the first time out, and not disappointed by the guns poor performance. There doesn't seem to be many gun smiths around these days, and the ones that are usually have a waiting list of several weeks to a few months. Just what I want to do.....buy a new rifle and then leave it at the gun smiths for a month or so.......So I figure, if I do it myself then I can control the quality of the work and when it's completed.

I think most will suggest you take the rifle to a good gunsmith and have the action properly bedded, the barrel free floated, and the trigger worked to improve the quality and weight of the pull.

If you don't hand load, you might want to think about starting. Handloads let you tune the load to the gun and will improve the groups as well.........

The only other thing that I can think of for you to do is buy a Savage.......best shooting rifle off the shelf and out of the box that's made!

Norseman112 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 02, 2005, 02:38:57 PM »

what kind of scope are you useing? I bought a model 70 .270 wsm and my mounts were lose. The gun shoots .75 at 100 yrds now.

gunpilot · « **Reply #4 on:** June 02, 2005, 02:52:30 PM »

the gun is a model 70 featherweight. I shot a 1/3 inch group the same day with my browning 22 hornet microhunter. The scope is a Leupold 3-9 compact. I shot 3/4 inch groups with the same type scope on my tikka t3. I do not handload. Thanks for the advice.

gunpilot · « **Reply #5 on:** June 02, 2005, 03:03:44 PM »

I believe the barrel comes free floated as standard. I did tighten the hex screw in front of the floorplate a bit. Would that make a difference? The ammo was purchased at Gander Mountain and a reputable private gun dealer.

poncaguy · « **Reply #6 on:** June 02, 2005, 05:17:40 PM »

My WalMart Winchester Super Shadow 270WSM shot 3/4" right out of the box with Winchester Ballistic Tip 130's I got from WalMart......... :-)

mountainview · « **Reply #7 on:** June 02, 2005, 05:33:02 PM »

G-pilot, don't wrap 'er round the old oak tree yet. Try some other brands and loads and you'll probably find the combo that gives you the kind of accuracy you are looking for. Adjusting the trigger pull will help a lot.The heavy trigger makes you anticipate the recoil and stop concentrating on the sght picture.

I was frustrated with my Rem 700 when I first got it (3-4" groups). Tried some different bullet weights and had the trigger pull dropped by a smith and WOW, night and day difference. 1-1.125" groups are the norm. I am going to start handloading for it right soon and should improve grouping a bit more.

Zachary · « **Reply #8 on:** June 02, 2005, 07:14:14 PM »

3" groups is outrageous in my opinion, and all of my M70 Classic Stainless rifles shoot 1MOA with at least 1 brand of ammo.

It may be the scope mounts or the scope. Check them out first.
Then try different types of ammo. Then have a gunsmith glass bed the action and put pillars in the stock, and also have a trigger job with the pull set at about 3 pounds.

If that doesn't do it, then throw it away and get another Tikka.

Zachary

roper · « **Reply #9 on:** June 03, 2005, 12:29:01 AM »

Gunpilot, Try a box of Win and if it shoots the same send it back. You start change things then you own the problem. My FWT had to have a new barrel. Well good luck.

Todd1700 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 03, 2005, 03:23:24 AM »

Quote

By any chance, did you buy your ammo from Walmart?

What difference would this make?

victorcharlie · « **Reply #11 on:** June 03, 2005, 03:55:34 AM »

I've done some testing and the ammo from walmart doesn't shoot as well as the ammo purchased from local shops..........not trying to start anything.......do your own test...........

beemanbeme · « **Reply #12 on:** June 03, 2005, 04:13:14 AM »

Oh sure, they have special ammo that they sell thru Walmart. :roll:

Ramrod · « **Reply #13 on:** June 03, 2005, 01:15:56 PM »

Quote from: beemanbeme

Oh sure, they have special ammo that they sell thru Walmart. :roll:

For your information, Walmart is famous (infamous?) for buying with enormous contracts at rock bottom prices. In other words, they buy the cheapest of the cheap in mass quantities. Alot of the guns and ammo they stock are special runs for Walmart only, and are inferior to what is available in regular commercial channels.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #14 on:** June 03, 2005, 03:44:25 PM »

Just go get a 500 pack of remington 22lr golden from Walmart and then go buy the same thing from one of your large local stores......It will only cost you about $20 bucks.............Let us know what you think after a day at the range...............I"ve done several of my own independent tests.........side by side............used .243 and .270....22lr........there is a difference........but don't believe me, go find out for yourself!

Old Griz · « **Reply #15 on:** June 04, 2005, 05:40:44 AM »

:cb2: Try the PMC ammo. I have a Swedish Mauser and this was amazingly accurate in my rifle. I tried the expensive Lapua stuff and it was awful. Of course, every gun is different, but as long as you're trying different brands, the PMC isn't too hard on the pocketbook either. Sorry you're having so much trouble with what should be a mighty fine rifle.

jvs · « **Reply #16 on:** June 04, 2005, 11:34:25 AM »

My guess is that you have one of those "Liability" factory triggers, somewhere between 9 and 11 pounds of pull, which would be more than 75% of your problem.

I have a .308 Featherweight that had just about the same problem when new 20 yrs ago, some things never change. I had two holes about an inch apart or less and one flyer, always one flyer out of 3 which did give me a 3 to 3 1/2 inch group. The stock was making contact with the barrel about half way down and the trigger was lightened to 2 1/2 to 3 pounds. My rifle now clips holes at 100 yds. Slide a dollar bill down between the stock and barrel after 3 to 5 shots and see if you get any tight spots, if you do the harmonics change enough to throw your shots off at 100 yds. And being a Featherweight, it isnt too advisable to be shooting it so quickly that the barrel overheats.

You have a good rifle, it's just that Winchester factory standards don't usually comply with what the end user expects. You'd think that if Savage can do it with mass produced rifles - Winchester could do it also, but I guess not. If you did send it back Winchester would most likely would do nothing but tell you that it meets industry standards. But it may not hurt to call and find out for sure.

Before anyone might say that I single out Winchester, I do not. Other makers have the same problem also.... It's called Quality Control.

gunpilot · « **Reply #17 on:** June 04, 2005, 04:42:18 PM »

thank you for the info! I would not buy anything at walmart. I was an employee there and know how they brainwash their employees and then treat them like #@*!. They also drive quality dealers like gunshops and hadware stores, etc out of business. Apparently customer service and expert advice are not worth paying for to the general public.

texagun · « **Reply #18 on:** June 22, 2005, 01:48:04 PM »

Quote from: Ramrod

Walmart... In other words, they buy the cheapest of the cheap in mass quantities. Alot of the guns and ammo they stock are special runs for Walmart only, and are inferior to what is available in regular commercial channels.

This is simply NOT TRUE. Walmart buys from the same wholesaler that your local gun stores buy from...they are NOT specially made for Walmart. That is a fable that needs to be put to rest. My Walmart buys their guns from Sports South in Louisiana....it is the same wholesaler that furnishes guns for just about all the gun stores and gun dealers in the DFW metroplex.

jro45 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 26, 2005, 06:34:38 AM »

I know that Wal-Mart sells there guns and ammo a lot cheaper then alot of places. I bought all my guns from a gun smith. He would order them and sold them at 10% over what it cost him, but Wal-Mart was cheaper then he was or about the same. I reload all my ammo so I don't worry about what it sells for.

Todd1700 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 28, 2005, 09:52:06 PM »

Quote

Alot of the guns and ammo they stock are special runs for Walmart only, and are inferior to what is available in regular commercial channels.

Horse pucky. I have heard this myth my whole life. It's nothing more than a rumour started by smaller sporting goods stores to scare people away from Wal-Mart. You can like Wal-Mart or despise them, I could give a rats @$$ either way but it's time for this urban legend to die out.

Mikey · « **Reply #21 on:** June 29, 2005, 02:53:26 AM »

The major reason places like Wal-mart and others can sell new rifles and shotguns so inexpensively is the way they order them from the manufacturers. Wal-marts may order 5000 Winchester Model 70 rifles in 4 or 5 different calibers and stock models, in 2005 at 2005 manufacturing prices and pay for them at that time, specifying that they want delivery by August of 2007, and will sell them at a small profit, giving you a great deal and still making a buck themselves. You are paying the price of a rifle from 2 years ago, actually. So, when the manufacturer ups his cost by 10-15% every year, you can purchase the rifle ordered and paid for two years ago for about 25-30% less than even your local gun dealer can order it for. HTH. Mikey.

coldsteel · « **Reply #22 on:** June 30, 2005, 12:19:03 AM »

![/quote]
The only other thing that I can think of for you to do is buy a Savage.......best shooting rifle off the shelf and out of the box that's made.

VictorCharlie, comments like this do not help resolve the problem. Sure Savage makes a very accurate rifle but GunPilot owns a Winchester. He wants to figure out why it won't shoot accuratly. I own a Winchester and a Remington and both rifles shoot moa.

Mikey · « **Reply #23 on:** June 30, 2005, 02:56:27 AM »

gunpilot - I apologize for responding without really trying to provide some help on your Winchester. When I re-read your post I thought what a sweet rifle that must be, a Featherweight in 6.5 Swede.

OK, a couple of things here: one of the pposters remarked about the lightweight barrels not holding groups when heated up - Yep, this is true to a degree but it can be dealt with effectively by free-floating the barrel from just beyond the chamber area. Here you have to make sure that nothing else touches the barrel - your lightweight barrel will react more adversely to pressure from any given point than would a thicker barrel. I know that my M70 needed free-floating before she would shoot worth schmidt.

If your trigger is heavy, creepy, not adjustable or just plain crummy, get another trigger with adjustments - it will help tremendously.

If after all that she still doesn't shoot to your satisfaction, firelap the barrel - it is really little more than a shooting exercise but it will impart controlled wear to your barrel that should remove sharp edges or constrictions that impact negatively on your accuracy.

As for loads to shoot - victorcharlie recommended other brands of ammo - many of the mil-surp shooters who enjoy the 6.5 Swede like the Sellier and Bellot ammo. It shoots fabulously in my M38 and AG-42b. Also, a recent article in the Shotgun News on 6.5 Swedes showed even the older ones capable of incredible accuracy with handloads.

Once you get the bugs worked out of that rifle I suspect you may enjoy reloading for it. Hope alla this helps. Mikey.

1marty · « **Reply #24 on:** July 05, 2005, 03:43:21 PM »

this walmart stuff is really silly-I can just see remington or winchester setting up a separate factory to manufacturer inferior bullets for walmart!
I have a rem 700 mountain rifle in a 30-06 which started shooting 3" groups-turned out the stock screws were loose. after tightening them it shot fine.